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Old 11-30-2019, 07:51 PM   #261
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Originally Posted by DavidsonOverlander View Post
You're ass is dead wrong on this one, but this is too big an issue to discuss in an Airstream forum, so let's get back to electric vehicles.

Too big an issue?

What if you could reduce it to a kind of a “DID YOU ORDER THE CODE RED!?!” question....for example....

If it’s TRULY self-evident (as written in our Declaration of Independence) that all humans are created equal and have certain unalienable rights - why are black humans counted as only 60% of other humans; and that solely for the purpose of determining congressional representation for their “owners” in their states in our (original/non-amended) Constitution? If equality is self-evident - why were amendments 13, 14, 15, 19 and 24 ever necessary at all?

Now - the Cybertruck is ugly as sin but I’d dig an electric truck. That Rivian (?) looks tempting. I’d love a 500 mile range while towing and a 15 minute full charge from non-petroleum, renewable power sources. Bring that on and I’d gladly pay even a 25% premium over the current diesel 3/4T trucks...
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Old 11-30-2019, 08:03 PM   #262
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Not questioning how hard you work, but that's not what causes income inequality. Income inequality results from systemic discrimination, parental education level, variations in the education system, community supports, the quality of the social safety net, etc. - things that are beyond the control of the individual.
So, you are saying it is a cultural problem. There is the culture of learning, hard work, taking responsibility. Then there is the culture of dropping out of school, letting the government take care of you, because it is never YOUR fault.

I agree 100%.
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Old 11-30-2019, 08:19 PM   #263
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Income inequality in the context of electric vehicles relates to the taxpayer funded rebates. Electric vehicles, especially Tesla's, are expensive, approaching 100k, so only wealthy people can afford them. The effect is that the government is taking tax dollars from the poor and lower middle class struggling to put food on the table to give to those already privileged enough to afford these expensive overpowered luxury cars.
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Old 11-30-2019, 09:04 PM   #264
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Nope. When and where did everyone ever earn the same? Maybe you think you should have Elon Musk’s $$$?Not wrong, eh?
The issue is not that people earn different amounts, but that the causes of income inequality are often rooted in things over which the individual has no control. Do a little research on social mobility and you may understand better. Social mobility is greater is some parts of the USA than in others, and (on average) is greater in Canada than in America and most other developed countries. That means that it is easier to move up the social ladder (ie. earn a higher income than your parents) in Canada than it is in America. Is that because Canadians work harder, I doubt that. Canada has the social safety nets that allow for children of lower income and/or less educated parents to do well. It also has one of the most equitable education systems in the world. I'm not saying this to brag about Canada, but to point out that there is a lot more affecting one's success than hard work.

Before you argue about income inequality understand that we're not talking about some people working harder and making more money, we're talking about some people making more money because they're going through life with one or more advantages that others don't have - being white, being male, being straight, having educated parents, having positive role models, being healthy, going to good schools, and in some cases having the support of organizations such as churches and government programs. And don't tell me about the guy you know (or yourself) who overcame certain difficulties and succeeded. That's great, but this is a case where you need to look at statistics, not anecdotes.

It's not about everyone earning the same amount of money, it's about people having the same opportunity to make the same amount of money. I'm not afraid to admit that part of the reason I've been successful in life is that I was born into a stable family that supported me, made sure I got a good education and gave me many positive experiences growing up. I wasn't affected by many of the things that could have derailed my life. I have never faced discrimination, I've been pretty healthy, I live in a country that is at peace, I haven't had to wrestle with questions of sexual identity and I had a career where I was treated fairly by my employer. And yes, on top of all that I've worked hard to get where I am, but we're kidding ourselves if we think we've made it on our own.
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Old 11-30-2019, 09:10 PM   #265
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Originally Posted by DavidsonOverlander View Post
Not questioning how hard you work, but that's not what causes income inequality. Income inequality results from systemic discrimination, parental education level, variations in the education system, community supports, the quality of the social safety net, etc. - things that are beyond the control of the individual.
Anyone who believes the above is doomed to experience income inequality...excuses are just that...always a reason to blame everything and everyone for your individual lack of initiative to excell...sit back and watch the best pass you by...from all walks of life...
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Old 11-30-2019, 10:55 PM   #266
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Canada also has a very low population density and 1/10 of the population of the US. I’m sure that helps with emissions. The growth of manufacturing in the US recently has increased energy usage and probably increased CO2 emissions a bit.
LOL. You appear to believe Canada is a bit greener than we really are. Ever heard of the Canadian Oil sands? We produce more greenhouse gas per person than any other G20 country.

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/...port-says.html
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Old 11-30-2019, 10:56 PM   #267
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As much as I agree with you DavidsonOverlander, and I believe this population of genereally well to do Airstream forum members is likely tone def on the issue...

Let's take this back to EVs...

EVs are today, already at the pinical of viability. They are no longer depending on rebates or incentives that they were 10 years ago. My first EV had 10k in rebates 9 years ago. Our second EV this past year had 5k in rebates it didn't need to be viable as it was economical and represented huge value on its own. The Cybertruck can fully stand on its own merits. That will further prove out with fleet and government vehicles where styling is a distant consideration next to cost.

I'm excited for the cybertruck. As much as Tesla's have been game changers, this represents another full step in forward progress based on its specs.
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Old 12-01-2019, 12:19 AM   #268
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Maybe if more people only drove there EVs with a friend then they would be more socially mobile.
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Old 12-01-2019, 05:29 AM   #269
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidsonOverlander View Post
The issue is not that people earn different amounts, but that the causes of income inequality are often rooted in things over which the individual has no control. Do a little research on social mobility and you may understand better. Social mobility is greater is some parts of the USA than in others, and (on average) is greater in Canada than in America and most other developed countries. That means that it is easier to move up the social ladder (ie. earn a higher income than your parents) in Canada than it is in America. .....
I agree with some of this. But never underestimate the role that culture plays in this. A kid growing up in the inner city here will have a really hard time making it. Not about the ‘system’; more about the culture he’s growing up in. Is there a father in his life? Are the kids in school so disruptive that nobody learns? Does the school have the ability to control out-of-control kids? Does the mother have the ability (or even care) to put the kid in a different school?

I know people who have taught in inner city schools. In my mind the key is education, but we don’t let poor parents have a choice in where to send their kid to school. Has nothing to do with race or gender these days. Jim Crow is distant history.

I didn’t grow up in a bubble.
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Old 12-01-2019, 06:12 AM   #270
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Originally Posted by kscherzi View Post
Income inequality in the context of electric vehicles relates to the taxpayer funded rebates. Electric vehicles, especially Tesla's, are expensive, approaching 100k, so only wealthy people can afford them. The effect is that the government is taking tax dollars from the poor and lower middle class struggling to put food on the table to give to those already privileged enough to afford these expensive overpowered luxury cars.
You should do some research on how much tax the lower incomes actually pay and how much they get back in April.
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Old 12-01-2019, 07:10 AM   #271
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Originally Posted by kscherzi View Post
Income inequality in the context of electric vehicles relates to the taxpayer funded rebates. Electric vehicles, especially Tesla's, are expensive, approaching 100k, so only wealthy people can afford them. The effect is that the government is taking tax dollars from the poor and lower middle class struggling to put food on the table to give to those already privileged enough to afford these expensive overpowered luxury cars.
If you want to see taxpayer funded rebates, do some research on the segment of the US that gets all their taxes back. I don’t think a rebate on an EV (which are basically gone now) makes much of a dent in cost of a $100,000 car, bought with income that is taxed at 40-50% already in an attempt to level the “income inequality” gap.
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Old 12-01-2019, 07:55 AM   #272
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If you want to see taxpayer funded rebates, do some research on the segment of the US that gets all their taxes back. I don’t think a rebate on an EV (which are basically gone now) makes much of a dent in cost of a $100,000 car, bought with income that is taxed at 40-50% already in an attempt to level the “income inequality” gap.
If you belive the $7,500 federal EV rebate didn't make the EV purchase decision for anybody then please return your rebate to the IRS and encourage others to do the same. The national debt is already too high.
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Old 12-01-2019, 08:30 AM   #273
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As far as tax rebates go, and perhaps road taxes, there's a valid, on-topic political component to this discussion. The thread is wandering pretty far afield of that into territory that is more blatantly political. Let's focus back on the "Cybertruck" and closely-related topics.
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Old 12-01-2019, 09:48 AM   #274
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I agree, David. If I wanted to read social justice commentary, I'm sure that I could fine a forum devoted to that topic.

As this Thread is, or should be, about the New Tesla Pick-up and electric towing vehicles, I will add my two cents. I have a deposit on one of the new Rivian EV's scheduled to be available next summer.

We attended a Rivian customer gathering in Denver this past June. We got a chance to see the Rivian prototypes in the flesh. We also met RJ Scaringe, Rivian's CEO.

A number of Rivian's design engineers were at this event. We discussed vehicle range when towing an 8,000# trailer. We were told that towing a heavy trailer could reduce vehicle charge range by as much as 40%.

When crunching the numbers, that would mean a 240 mile range when towing Lucy. This could work for our traveling style, but it would take a lot of planning, which all here know, is not our long suit.

We also discussed charge time with one of the Rivian battery engineers. He told us that a full recharge on a 110 volt campground outlet would take eighteen to twenty-four hours. This factor would seriously impact our camping style.

These things considered, I don't know if Lucy is ready for an EV tow vehicle at this point in time. I an hopeful that in the near future, an EV will be in the cards for Lucy.

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Old 12-01-2019, 09:54 AM   #275
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In the interest of fairness, while shopping for Thanksgiving, I noticed my local Winn-Dixie grocery has installed about 10 Tesla charging stations in the far corner of their parking lot.
The airport, TPA, has a cell phone lot (brilliant idea, free parking and a giant message board showing all flights.) and that has about 5 charging stations. I'd expect a government entity to have them but the grocery store was a surprise.
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Old 12-01-2019, 10:23 AM   #276
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In the interest of fairness, while shopping for Thanksgiving, I noticed my local Winn-Dixie grocery has installed about 10 Tesla charging stations in the far corner of their parking lot.
The airport, TPA, has a cell phone lot (brilliant idea, free parking and a giant message board showing all flights.) and that has about 5 charging stations. I'd expect a government entity to have them but the grocery store was a surprise.
I too notice all the "charging ports" popping up here in Austin at the Whole Foods and other locations, where handicapped parking spots used to be, close to the entrance...I also notice many EV cars parking in these spots, are "not" charging...they just take advantage of the close parking spots...should there be a fine for these like parking in a handicap spot without a sticker??

Oh, there I go taking us off the topic..food for thought perhaps.
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Old 12-01-2019, 10:32 AM   #277
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Agreed

Quote:
Originally Posted by DKB_SATX View Post
As far as tax rebates go, and perhaps road taxes, there's a valid, on-topic political component to this discussion. The thread is wandering pretty far afield of that into territory that is more blatantly political. Let's focus back on the "Cybertruck" and closely-related topics.
Agreed. Hey at least I mentioned Elon Musk in my ‘social commentary’ 😀

EV’s are the wave of the (near) future, IMHO.
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Old 12-01-2019, 10:38 AM   #278
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In the interest of fairness, while shopping for Thanksgiving, I noticed my local Winn-Dixie grocery has installed about 10 Tesla charging stations in the far corner of their parking lot.

The airport, TPA, has a cell phone lot (brilliant idea, free parking and a giant message board showing all flights.) and that has about 5 charging stations. I'd expect a government entity to have them but the grocery store was a surprise.


Do you know whether those Tesla charging stations are universal? I don’t know whether each manufacturer has their own process or is it standard like our 30A or 50A camper inlets?
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Old 12-01-2019, 12:02 PM   #279
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Do you know whether those Tesla charging stations are universal? I don’t know whether each manufacturer has their own process or is it standard like our 30A or 50A camper inlets?
Unfortunately not. They are proprietary to Tesla's. And much faster than 99% of the existing stations out there.

Tesla's however can use their own network, plus just about any other charging network. Including most any generic 220V or 115V outlet provided one carries the right adapters.

It's part of the strength and momentum that Tesla has. Not only are they the mileage range leader by virtue of their technology and efficiency, their infrastructure including all networks puts them in a league of their own.

It's also important to remember when one gets an EV, their home (or RV park) becomes their primary "gas station". Something of a paradigm change for ICE vehicle owners that's harder to truly understand until one owns an EV. My wife refuses to drive an ICE vehicle as running to the gas station in between commute, kid pickup, and errands is so... passe.

And oil changes, smog, DEF, short interval maintenance? Practically uncouth.
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Old 12-01-2019, 12:04 PM   #280
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. . .
Let's take this back to EVs...
. . .
A good itinerary IMO.

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