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11-28-2019, 03:06 PM
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#221
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Moderator
2017 26' Flying Cloud
Alamo Heights
, Texas
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 8,493
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadtech
Could you give any more details on this? What is it?
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It's 2 things... an inverter plus an air compressor. Neither is ground-breaking, but depending on how big the inverter is, may be industry-leading. Still, there's only so much battery capacity available, and one would need a bunch of it for towing the Airstream, so upgrading the Airstream's batteries is still rational.
__________________
— David
Zero Gravitas — 2017 Flying Cloud 26U | WBCCI# 15566
He has all of the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire. — Sir Winston Churchill
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11-28-2019, 03:37 PM
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#222
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Rivet Master
2016 16' Sport
Miami
, Florida
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 1,593
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Countryboy59
Canada also has a very low population density and 1/10 of the population of the US. I’m sure that helps with emissions. The growth of manufacturing in the US recently has increased energy usage and probably increased CO2 emissions a bit. Unfortunately we have abandoned much of our rail infrastructure to create some really nice biking and hiking trails, a colossal waste in my opinion. It’s a compromise, but I’ll take the robust economy and vote to keep things moving.
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Some nice hiking and biking trails were created from long abandoned rails. I don’t think any currently in use railroads were converted to bike trails. Many of them like the GAP have brought itourist dollars into repressed communities.
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11-28-2019, 03:48 PM
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#223
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Rivet Master
2018 27' International
Southeastern MI
, Michigan
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 2,344
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bweybright
Until 100% of the energy cost from being created at the very start to point of use is factored in and balanced against what we have now for fuel I see it as a shell game. What are the costs associated with generating the electricity and storage in vehicles, that would include lead mining, metal mining, disposal at the end of life, and including line loss to run these things. Maybe the future but the current trend of only looking at the cost at the vehicle bothers me.
Currently Prius batteries are being moved into less critical need situations as they retire. However, what happens when they can't be sold cheap into a home backup situation because they don't hold any charge and have to be disposed of? Any of you with more knowledge than me on batteries and cost to generate electricity please answer my questions and the cost of electric generation from a financial and environmental perspective.!!! Until then I see it as a government subsidized feel good situation....except for Elon Musk is is laughing all the way to the bank.
What I would really like to see from both the electric and dino fuel world is a 100% end to end analysis of costs and benefits. Now I am in my happy world as I realize neither side will do this unless it is to there advantage.
So now we are back on thread with a bit of wonder where it is going and hope....
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If you want to answer the question of pollution from a power plant vs individual engines, compare the emissions of 2000 lawnmowers to that of a locomotive with the same horsepower. I guarantee the power plant is cleaner. And it’s already running to power your air conditioner and 75” TV.
If you think the total energy to build an EV powertrain is greater than that to mine, pour and machine an IC engine you must know something industry doesn’t. It’s not.
Lithium and lead mines have been operating for 200 years. The batteries have recycling value.
New technology development and the industry it is bringing back to the US is creating jobs and wealth that is much needed. I’ll take it.
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11-28-2019, 03:58 PM
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#224
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Rivet Master
2016 16' Sport
Miami
, Florida
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 1,593
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You have stolen my childhood.
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11-28-2019, 04:06 PM
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#225
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Rivet Master
2007 27' International CCD FB
San Diego
, California
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 2,115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DKB_SATX
It's 2 things... an inverter plus an air compressor. Neither is ground-breaking, but depending on how big the inverter is, may be industry-leading. Still, there's only so much battery capacity available, and one would need a bunch of it for towing the Airstream, so upgrading the Airstream's batteries is still rational.
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Correct. The Cybertruck reveal showed it would have 115V/220V and compressed air hookups right in the tail end of the bed.
It's easy to dismiss this as ground-breaking. Sure one can modify and add one to an ICE vehicle. Fact is, there are no trucks today delivered with a factory one. And none that can power anything significant without running the engine.
I still would say upgrading an Airstream battery would be secondary. I'd probably install the same 6V lead acid upgrade I have now but would not bother with any lithium add on.
Consider that the 500mile range Cybertruck is going to deliver with a traction battery somewhere in the 160kwh capacity range. Each $1000 lithium 100Ah battery we install on trailers today is 1.28kwh. That's peanuts and less than 1% capacity to the truck battery.
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11-28-2019, 06:02 PM
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#226
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Rivet Master
2013 27' FB International
El Dorado Hills
, California
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,023
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For me the weak link is time to recharge. Not such a big deal for daily commute and back where overnight recharging is good for the round trip, but waiting an hour or five to fill an empty battery is hard to swallow when trying to get someplace far away.
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11-28-2019, 06:24 PM
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#227
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Rivet Master
2016 16' Sport
Miami
, Florida
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 1,593
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiny16
You have stolen my childhood.
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Oh sorry I forgot to mention my dreams.
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11-28-2019, 06:45 PM
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#228
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Rivet Master
2019 28' Flying Cloud
2014 22' FB Sport
Davie
, FL
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 904
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Electric cars are great. Somebody please let me know when the infrastructure is ready to handle them.
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11-28-2019, 07:28 PM
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#229
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Rivet Master
2017 27' Flying Cloud
Fort Worth
, Texas
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 773
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turk123
Here you go! This may replace my wife's wrangler!
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Hope your Wrangler has at least 2 more years in it!
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11-28-2019, 07:32 PM
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#230
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Rivet Master
2018 27' International
Southeastern MI
, Michigan
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 2,344
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Quote:
Originally Posted by out of sight
Electric cars are great. Somebody please let me know when the infrastructure is ready to handle them.
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Ok, it’s ready.
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11-28-2019, 07:33 PM
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#231
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Rivet Master
2017 27' Flying Cloud
Fort Worth
, Texas
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 773
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmbecke
Don’t believe Elon Musk’s specs at this time. Probably hasn’t tested the range under a tow load. I also don’t believe the payload numbers either
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This truck will change substantially over the next several years. So far, we just have a prototype that looks like it was a college engineering project.
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11-28-2019, 07:37 PM
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#232
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Rivet Master
2017 27' Flying Cloud
Fort Worth
, Texas
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 773
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LY007
There is verbiage in the deposit sign up indicating prices will be subject to change.
I’m still baffled as to why a pointless feature (“armored” windows) was showcased in the demo, even if it had not failed.
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I agree. I’m 60 years old and have never broken a side window. In fact, I don’t even know anyone who has!
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11-28-2019, 07:39 PM
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#233
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Rivet Master
2017 27' Flying Cloud
Fort Worth
, Texas
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 773
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmkrum
I have mixed opinions on the politics. If the silliness in California gets too bad, we plan to leave and go somewhere more rational.
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I thought that was 20 years ago!
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11-28-2019, 08:05 PM
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#234
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Rivet Master
2017 23' Flying Cloud
Bartlett
, Tennessee
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,054
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Quote:
Originally Posted by out of sight
Electric cars are great. Somebody please let me know when the infrastructure is ready to handle them.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Countryboy59
Ok, it’s ready.
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Really? I can drive my ICE down any highway in this country in any direction knowing without having to think about it that when I am low on fuel, I can stop at a station and refuel. In any town. No matter how small. Leave aside the fact that a 10 minute stop gets me another 650 miles of driving. (I have a 36 gallon tank.)
Can the same be said of an EV recharge station? Or, do you have to plan ahead just WHERE you can charge when going cross country in fly over country?
When you can take off and drive without having to think about where you can recharge, the infrastructure will be ready.
__________________
Bobbo and Lin
2017 F-150 XLT 4x4 SuperCab 3.5l EcoBoost V6
2017 Flying Cloud 23FB "BobLin Along"
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11-28-2019, 08:06 PM
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#235
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Rivet Master
2017 23' Flying Cloud
Bartlett
, Tennessee
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,054
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billrector
I agree. I’m 60 years old and have never broken a side window. In fact, I don’t even know anyone who has!
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I have. I was mowing the lawn and the mower threw a rock. My daughter had just brought her brand new car to show it to us. She was not well pleased.
__________________
Bobbo and Lin
2017 F-150 XLT 4x4 SuperCab 3.5l EcoBoost V6
2017 Flying Cloud 23FB "BobLin Along"
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11-28-2019, 08:08 PM
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#236
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Moderator
2017 26' Flying Cloud
Alamo Heights
, Texas
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 8,493
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pteck
Correct. The Cybertruck reveal showed it would have 115V/220V and compressed air hookups right in the tail end of the bed.
It's easy to dismiss this as ground-breaking. Sure one can modify and add one to an ICE vehicle. Fact is, there are no trucks today delivered with a factory one. And none that can power anything significant without running the engine.
I still would say upgrading an Airstream battery would be secondary. I'd probably install the same 6V lead acid upgrade I have now but would not bother with any lithium add on.
Consider that the 500mile range Cybertruck is going to deliver with a traction battery somewhere in the 160kwh capacity range. Each $1000 lithium 100Ah battery we install on trailers today is 1.28kwh. That's peanuts and less than 1% capacity to the truck battery.
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Are you talking about the 220V side of the inverter? Or the non-issue air compressor? (I'd much rather have a good air compressor that's readily replaceable when it wears out, e.g.) Because my truck came from the factory with an inverter... or is it the inverter outlet in the bed which you find more significant?
It's good that they put the outlet at the very back of the bed, because none of the rest of the bed is accessible from the ground...
I'm guessing every watt-hour in the pack will be needed... did you look at the video I posted? The Model X towing a trailer not much higher or wider than the Model X itself was getting less than half its non-towing range. Unless there's going to be a Cybertrailer to go with it, Elon's magicians are going to have a tough time getting around the laws of physics.
__________________
— David
Zero Gravitas — 2017 Flying Cloud 26U | WBCCI# 15566
He has all of the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire. — Sir Winston Churchill
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11-28-2019, 10:26 PM
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#237
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Rivet Master
1969 18' Caravel
Greenville
, whereEverIroam
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 1,409
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One piece at a time.
the EV will be an evolution rather than a revolution. We can't expect parity with ICE to happen overnight. Consider how many gas stations there were in the USA 150 years ago. Consider the range and reliability of ICE vehicles a century ago. The ICE has had a considerable head start, so all things being equal, EVs are developing faster, safer, and more reliably than did the ICE vehicle early in it's development.
It's a new century, and by the end of it, ICE vehicles will seem as quaint and historic as horse drawn carriages do today, assuming we haven't blown ourselves up by then.
But for now, it's still an exciting frontier, wild west sort of situation. ICE lovers are correct that the EV today can't yet compete, even just on infrastructure alone. EV buyers need to prepare themselves for a major paradigm shift and adjust their expectations accordingly. Many things like ride comfort will be similar, but a few key things like trip planing will be vastly different; some things like acceleration, capacity, maintenance and economy will be better, but some, like range and recharge times will be frustratingly worse - at least for the next decade. And there is always the chance that hydrogen by that time may overtake the whole EV paradigm.
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11-29-2019, 02:39 AM
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#238
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Rivet Master
2014 20' Flying Cloud
Sag Harbor
, New York
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 17,523
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Well said.
Peter
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11-29-2019, 04:02 AM
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#239
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Rivet Master
2016 30' Classic
Lorton
, Virginia
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 689
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I have the 500 mile range Tri-Motor CyberTruck on order. Going to tow my 30' Classic with it.
In the above video, towing a V-nose dual axle 4,500 lb trailer cost them 2.7x range. Since my Classic is about double the weight, but fairly aerodynamic (which matters the most), I expect to get around 140 mile range (lose 3.5x).
That's fine with me as in retirement I don't go long distances between camping spots. One area of concern I feel will lead to some growing pains is having to disconnect the Airstream to charge at most Supercharger stations that don't have pull through capability.
Supposedly more consideration is going to be taken for trailers in future Supercharger builds.
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11-29-2019, 06:20 AM
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#240
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Rivet Master
2019 30' Classic
Canfield
, Ohio
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 2,559
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zybane
I have the 500 mile range Tri-Motor CyberTruck on order. Going to tow my 30' Classic with it.
In the above video, towing a V-nose dual axle 4,500 lb trailer cost them 2.7x range. Since my Classic is about double the weight, but fairly aerodynamic (which matters the most), I expect to get around 140 mile range (lose 3.5x).
That's fine with me as in retirement I don't go long distances between camping spots. One area of concern I feel will lead to some growing pains is having to disconnect the Airstream to charge at most Supercharger stations that don't have pull through capability.
Supposedly more consideration is going to be taken for trailers in future Supercharger builds.
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It was brought up in the video that the charging stations are not designed for a vehicle with a trailer. Hmmm, just like most gas stations across the country!
We go to truck stops. When the Tesla electric semi-truck comes out, all the trucks stops will have the correct orientation for our pickups and trailers and, closer together than most superchargers. We just have to live long enough!
Batteries will get better, chargers will get prolific and all will be well. Just don't count on all this for another ten years or so. It will get there.
__________________
"At some point, throwing money at the problem *is* the right answer", Uncle Bob
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Tom & Doty
2019 Airstream Classic 30 Twin
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