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Old 11-24-2019, 09:00 PM   #141
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Originally Posted by skyguyscott View Post
The cybertruck may well be a nerd truck, but Elon wants to save the earth. He says that as successful as Tesla has been so far in selling EVs, the sedan planform is not a large segment. What is selling is trucks. Ford is even abandoning the car segment (save the Mustang) and focusing entirely on trucks/SUVs/crossovers.

So Elon says he wants a part of the tens of millions-plus per year market, if only to make a dent in emissions. If so, that 140k pre order needs to grow an order of magnitude.

But Elon can't do conventional, it's just not in his DNA. He also does not have any Tesla stores outside large cities where we pickemup folk live. So, after he installs lots more superchargers in places like Iowa and Wyoming and Arkansas, he may want to figure out how to reach that market, if he's really serious.

But he may instead be making a play for the next generation. Let's face it, the cybertruck is not being aimed at anyone over 60. Very, very few of those folks are going to buy any brand of EV, much less from a new company they have never dealt with. I'd wager he's after those under 35, maybe even younger.


My 29 yo engineer tacoma driving son put a deposit down on one. Heís impressed with the capabilities and says the look is growing on him. First look for me was a wtf moment, but after giving it a chance, I get it. I like Sci fi and future movies. Itís definitely Blade Runner. I agree Elon is targeting a younger future thinking demographic. Change happens. For those who have to look conventional and want all electric, get the Ford PU. Thats the beauty of a free market.
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Old 11-25-2019, 06:18 AM   #142
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Already is. You can get a Leaf or Volt pretty cheaply.
I was referring to the trucks. Seem priced very high to me. I may be wrong, but I don’t think the Leaf or Volt will pull our AS across the country.

Edit. I heard the new Tesla truck is $39K. A loaded F250 is $100K, so I guess these are priced better than I thought.
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Old 11-25-2019, 06:34 AM   #143
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Tesla Pickup Truck

Donít believe Elon Muskís specs at this time. Probably hasnít tested the range under a tow load. I also donít believe the payload numbers either
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Old 11-25-2019, 07:39 AM   #144
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I was referring to the trucks. Seem priced very high to me. I may be wrong, but I donít think the Leaf or Volt will pull our AS across the country.

Edit. I heard the new Tesla truck is $39K. A loaded F250 is $100K, so I guess these are priced better than I thought.
The $39k CyberTesla is the entry model. The model rated to tow is $69k. (There is a middle level at $49k also.)
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Old 11-25-2019, 08:23 AM   #145
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What was revealed was more of a concept or prototype -- it was far from a production model.

Tesla has a long track record of missing target dates and specs that change. They literally make it up as they go.

So, at this stage, it's far too early to start configuration of your truck. The interior, for instance, seems unfinished. I think the dash is going to be totally different than what was pictured. I also understand that the concept shown was not even street legal as is (e.g. side mirrors, head lights, wheel fenders, steering wheel, etc.)

I would imagine also that the range of options in the first generation will be severely limited. Tesla is not Ford, and the Cybertruck is in its first iteration, unlike the 150 which is how many decades old?

By 2022, you may have a better idea of what is actually going to be available, and, if you're lucky, when. Don't be surprised if the production truck differs significantly from what was shown last week.
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Old 11-25-2019, 10:09 AM   #146
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My guess is that Musk allowed for this ugly design for aerodynamic purposes and to get as many miles out of the battery as possible.

And is there a direct correlation that after the unveiling of this truck that shares of Tesla fell 6%?

And as to charging these at RV campgrounds Iím not sure any smart campground would allow for that without a significant increase in a fee. Although Iím not sure how running the trailer and charging the pickup can happen at the same time. I canít imagine campgrounds putting in fast chargers at this point.
A properly-provisioned 30A+50A box should allow both of the RV circuits to be used at once... I'm sure there are some under-provisioned campgrounds (after all, there are some where the 30A sockets won't deliver 30A!) but the meat if your observation is that smart campground operators won't want to have everyone charging their trucks all night at 50A without paying for that privilege. The current "mobile charger" setup (per Tesla's website) offers 14 miles of range added per hour of charging on 50A/240V for a Model X, which is likely to closest analog in their current fleet. It sounds like a limitation of the mobile charger rather than the 50A/240V service, so perhaps they'll have a better charger with the truck.
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Old 11-25-2019, 10:17 AM   #147
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A properly-provisioned 30A+50A box should allow both of the RV circuits to be used at once... I'm sure there are some under-provisioned campgrounds (after all, there are some where the 30A sockets won't deliver 30A!) but the meat if your observation is that smart campground operators won't want to have everyone charging their trucks all night at 50A without paying for that privilege. The current "mobile charger" setup (per Tesla's website) offers 14 miles of range added per hour of charging on 50A/240V for a Model X, which is likely to closest analog in their current fleet. It sounds like a limitation of the mobile charger rather than the 50A/240V service, so perhaps they'll have a better charger with the truck.
I believe Tesla said the 50 amp 250v would do 32 miles per charge hour. That is close to the 29 mpch that my tesla model 3 does. Older model X and S had smaller chargers with an option for dual chargers at one time.
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Old 11-25-2019, 11:10 AM   #148
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I believe Tesla said the 50 amp 250v would do 32 miles per charge hour. That is close to the 29 mpch that my tesla model 3 does. Older model X and S had smaller chargers with an option for dual chargers at one time.
If they want to be a modern tech company, they should perhaps keep current-model info on their website then (assuming they've upgraded the mobile chargers new S and X vehicles get.) I didn't look at model 3 numbers, since the X battery pack and power demands should be the most applicable to a large vehicle, but I suspect they may be planning some sort of new battery setup for the truck anyway, since it's hard to image how they'll get 500 miles AND lots of payload. It's interesting that they claim the same payload for all models, even with extra motors and bigger batteries. They list 20 (not the 14 I quoted previously, which is for the 30A/240V outlet on the line below the line I should have quoted.) The columns L to R are Model 3, Model S, Model X.
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Old 11-25-2019, 01:15 PM   #149
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Wow, this is a whole lot of discussion for what appears to be a prototype made in a few days out of posterboard.
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Old 11-25-2019, 01:36 PM   #150
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Wow, this is a whole lot of discussion for what appears to be a prototype made in a few days out of posterboard.
In fairness, more than half the conversation happened before the joke was revealed.
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Old 11-25-2019, 01:44 PM   #151
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Despite the issue at the roll out. 200,000 have put a $100 deposit for the new truck
most selected the 2 motor option followed by 3 motor and 1 motor as the least selected
https://driving.ca/tesla/auto-news/n...sits-says-musk
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Old 11-25-2019, 02:06 PM   #152
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Despite the issue at the roll out. 200,000 have put a $100 deposit for the new truck
most selected the 2 motor option followed by 3 motor and 1 motor as the least selected
https://driving.ca/tesla/auto-news/n...sits-says-musk
200k+ put down $1k for the Model 3 on the FIRST DAY. Taking 4 days to get to 200k with a really cheap fully refundable deposit is less impressive. I'm hooked on an auto auction site and I put $250 on my credit card every week or two in order to enter a bid, and I inevitably end up quitting before the rabid crazies interested in the cars I'm looking at, and getting my $250 back. I think a big chunk of those 200k "orders" are like that.

Tesla may eventually come out with a good product. It won't be on time, and I hope it won't look like this doorstop, because I'm not buying a doorstop and I'd like to have a high-performance electric truck someday.
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Old 11-25-2019, 04:35 PM   #153
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I read an interesting few notes on a discussion Elon had about the metal and the look of the truck... the cold rolled stainless they used is the stuff they have a pile of for the new SpaceX rocket prototypes... and the stuff is too hard/brittle to form and stamp which is why everything is so flat. One of the original articles about those rockets said that Elon was massively in love with the stuff.

Wouldnít surprise me if he said it had to be used, figure out how to his engineers. Concept truck indeed.

Re the payload numbers, if they are going to use the same air suspension across the board then the high payload makes sense. But as others pointed out with a solid 3 years before theses things ship Itís best to believe it when we see it in production.
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Old 11-25-2019, 06:56 PM   #154
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A properly-provisioned 30A+50A box should allow both of the RV circuits to be used at once.
Keep in mind that many, many campgrounds can't keep their voltage at an acceptable level when the campground is 3/4 full on a hot summer night and everyone is running their AC. Now, add a substantial number of EV's being charged on 50 amp outlets on top of that.

The infrastructure is going to have to be beefed up a whole lot for that kind of use.
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Old 11-25-2019, 07:10 PM   #155
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Now, add a substantial number of EV's being charged on 50 amp outlets
I donít think we are going to see a substantial number of EV trucks pulling campers anytime soon... but if we do the infrastructure will probably follow...

For the first few years people can probably get away with it easily... when there are issues instead of pointing at the shoddy infrastructure that canít even support AC on a hot day today you can bet the EVs will get an immediate finger pointed in their direction (in more ways than one )
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Old 11-25-2019, 07:31 PM   #156
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I donít think we are going to see a substantial number of EV trucks pulling campers anytime soon... but if we do the infrastructure will probably follow...

For the first few years people can probably get away with it easily... when there are issues instead of pointing at the shoddy infrastructure that canít even support AC on a hot day today you can bet the EVs will get an immediate finger pointed in their direction (in more ways than one )
And the EV owners will be just as quick to pillory the campground operators on social media for denying them their "free" electricity...
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Old 11-25-2019, 07:42 PM   #157
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Really dumb question here so go easy - Iím not an engineer....

Is there a way for the energy from the rotation of trailer tires and any trailer braking to be fed through the trailer to the EV truck to charge it or extend its range? I realize thereís some loss in there somewhere - but even if you could capture 50% of it - would it be valuable?

As for campgrounds - gotta imagine at some point every site will be metered. Stay for a weekend and use your AC - pay as you go. Use 2 ACs in your massive Moho - pay as you go. Charge your EV - pay as you go. And campground owners wonít be taking $5 off their fees when they do this - it will be additive.

Glass half empty I guess....
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Old 11-25-2019, 08:21 PM   #158
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With the charging tangent, wouldnít it make the most sense to plug the truck into the 50 amp pedestal and plug the trailer into the truck? This lets you power the trailer as needed and let the excess go to the batteries. Much of the time nearly 100% of available power would go to the batteries. This also can offset the need for serious investment in lithium for the trailer itself.

The range comments make no sense to me. How are folks assuming a 50-80% hit to range when towing?? Do your gas or Diesel engines take a similar hit to mileage when towing? Mine takes a 25% hit, maybe 30% if Iím mostly climbing in elevation. At the top configuration and 30% hit, the Cybertruck would still boast a 350 mile range, plenty for me in a day.

Iím betting (by placing an order for the top model) that he will meet or exceed the specs stated this past week. It wonít be on time, but it will happen. It will prove to be the best tow vehicle on the road, and definitely the most economical when all costs are considered compared to the F-250/2500 trucks (e.g F-250 Platinum).
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Old 11-25-2019, 08:28 PM   #159
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As for campgrounds - gotta imagine at some point every site will be metered. Stay for a weekend and use your AC - pay as you go. Use 2 ACs in your massive Moho - pay as you go. Charge your EV - pay as you go. And campground owners wonít be taking $5 off their fees when they do this - it will be additive.

Glass half empty I guess....
Which could be followed by time-of-use pricing, or temperature-at-time-of-use pricing. If it's 90į and the campground is full maybe electricity would cost more between noon and midnight than on a 60į day when the campground is mostly empty.
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Old 11-25-2019, 09:14 PM   #160
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Is there a way for the energy from the rotation of trailer tires and any trailer braking to be fed through the trailer to the EV truck to charge it or extend its range? I realize thereís some loss in there somewhere - but even if you could capture 50% of it - would it be valuable?
Not a dumb question... when you engine brake the engine is applying the force to slow the entire tow vehicle and trailer... when you use regen braking that force is going into your batteries. No extra systems required itís already factored in. Itís not perfect, if you need to slow faster then speed is dumped through heat in the brakes. The battery can only absorb energy so fast as the pack heats up. When it canít take more due to being full or hot then your regen braking drops off and your regular brakes take over. Since this process isnít 100% efficient you wonít get it all back going down the hill you just climbed so I imagine most of the time the pack wonít be too full... it will be too hot or the regen load will be limited.

Discovering how these systems play out in the real world will be pretty interesting. None of this is going to start out working as well as a good diesel with an exhaust brake but there are many easy ways to improve the still young EV segment.
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