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Old 12-12-2019, 12:09 PM   #401
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Originally Posted by ohmman View Post
Well, I've just caught up on this entire thread. Is there a trophy or some other kind of award?



There is much I'd love to respond to, as someone who has driven Tesla EVs for almost 6 years and has been exclusively EV for almost 4 years. The thread has a lot of misinformation and fear of the unknown, which isn't unusual. But I'll just keep it brief:


  • Towing with an EV today isn't as convenient as towing with an ICE. There's no getting around that. It takes a little more effort. But it's absolutely possible to go almost anywhere in the US, and we're in the infancy stages of the tech.
  • Hydrogen FCEVs are mostly a dead end. They have the allure of familiarity, but using electricity for electrolysis to make hydrogen, using electricity to compress and transport that hydrogen, then using that to create electricity in the car to THEN charge the onboard batteries to provide propulsion is a bizarre way to have an efficient vehicle. It's a great way to continue the existing model of holding someone hostage to a specific fuel that you may have the chance to control, though.
  • EVs have a significantly lower carbon footprint than ICE, and most are "in the black" on it within 2 years. And an EV you buy today will get cleaner over time. An ICE you buy today will not. That's the comparison that was being made upthread, and it's not inaccurate.
  • Climate change is real, and anyone who disagrees is quite unlikely to have reproduced any of the papers on it. If you seriously don't understand it, I suggest downloading some work and reproducing that work yourself. It's an excellent opportunity to get a better grasp of why GHG emissions matter.



I was eagerly anticipating the Cybertruck to replace our ~4 year old Model X for towing our AS. Then I saw it. It's not for me, at least not right now, probably for the same reason I mention above - fear of the unknown/fear of the new. I'm not used to it. Instead, I'll probably upgrade our Model X in the spring to the longest range version and continue to use that to tow. Tesla charger density is so high now that I really don't need a much longer range than that. And since our TV is used 95% for daily driving, it'll be nice to have something that doesn't prepare me for the zombie apocalypse.


I so appreciate you sharing your experiences with your Tesla in general and your towing experience with it in particular. Nothing takes the place of first-hand knowledge with something like this.

As an aside, the below link is a fun and fascinating ďtakeĒ on humans and our perception of change, in this case in regards to Teslaís truck. I really enjoyed the video because I have found myself in the group the video presenter describes. I really thought the Tesla CyberTruck was ridiculous when I first saw photos and video of it. And then...

https://youtu.be/yRGLSgaHw0w
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Old 12-13-2019, 06:37 AM   #402
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I have trouble sitting through a 10 min YouTube video. So I confess to not watching it all. Put me in the camp that wants it to succeed, but I’m hoping they somehow soften up the lines and angles. I can’t really see myself driving one at this point. Once I start seeing them everywhere I’ll come around. I must be a relatively late adopter.
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Old 12-13-2019, 06:43 AM   #403
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I have trouble sitting through a 10 min YouTube video. So I confess to not watching it all. Put me in the camp that wants it to succeed, but I’m hoping they somehow soften up the lines and angles. I can’t really see myself driving one at this point. Once I start seeing them everywhere I’ll come around. I must be a relatively late adopter.

Like many, it grows on me. Not sure soft enough to buy one, but it would be a major contrast using it to pull an Airstream....I mean an F-117a pulling a NASA Astrovan-like trailer. Bet you'd get a lot of cross eye stares....one for the beautiful trailer, and a look of bewilderment at the terminator pulling it.

Put me in the want it to succeed camp too!
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Old 12-13-2019, 08:43 AM   #404
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Ha! Put me in the same camp even though I like it more as time goes by. The real test will be when we seen them in the wild in 2-4 years. Then weíll know!
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Old 12-13-2019, 09:25 AM   #405
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Like many, it grows on me. Not sure soft enough to buy one, but it would be a major contrast using it to pull an Airstream....I mean an F-117a pulling a NASA Astrovan-like trailer. Bet you'd get a lot of cross eye stares....one for the beautiful trailer, and a look of bewilderment at the terminator pulling it.

Put me in the want it to succeed camp too!
At least the faceted design of the F117 had a functional purpose (reduced radar cross section) ��. I think Musk chose that design for the “attention getting shock value “ if you please. I think the finished design will be much better looking, but beauty is indeed in the eye of the beholder.

I, too, want Tesla and the others to succeed. I even liked driving my daughters Leaf and thought many times I would get one if I lived in a suburban (not rural) area.
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Old 12-13-2019, 09:39 AM   #406
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FWIW, we are in an area that was shut off during the Public Safety Power Shutoffs. I have 10kW solar on the roof and Tesla house batteries - the house stayed up, we used our oven and electric dryer, etc. as if we were on grid. The batteries had to carry us overnight, and in the morning they topped up. Once they were full (by noon or so), I dumped the rest of our solar into our cars. We had "full tanks" every day.

EVs are solar cars if you have solar available.
I forgot about Tesla making/selling home batteries...that's pretty cool! Pricy, I am sure...We grew up in Santa Clara area; everything is pricy there now...especially fuel..makes sense to get EV.
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Old 12-13-2019, 10:40 AM   #407
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Another article, this one mentions that the 'towing monster' may have a much higher weight of greater than 8,501 lbs.
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-cybe...s-carb-letter/

A better article explains it https://electrek.co/2019/12/13/tesla...8_zcocrOu-4gWw
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Old 12-13-2019, 10:58 AM   #408
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Another article, this one mentions that the 'towing monster' may have a much higher weight of greater than 8,501 lbs.
Cool. This truck, with its massive battery weight, will not need a w/d or sway control hitch to tow an Airstream. I wonder what the actual axle ratings and payload will be.
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Old 12-13-2019, 12:03 PM   #409
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Originally Posted by KK4YZ View Post
At least the faceted design of the F117 had a functional purpose (reduced radar cross section) ��. I think Musk chose that design for the “attention getting shock value “ if you please. I think the finished design will be much better looking, but beauty is indeed in the eye of the beholder.

I, too, want Tesla and the others to succeed. I even liked driving my daughters Leaf and thought many times I would get one if I lived in a suburban (not rural) area.
In regards to your comment on designed for shock value. Perhaps. But you're also missing key functional reasons. More reasons than on the F117. More than a traditional truck even.

Tesla is changing the fundamental architecture of a truck with this design. It is made of hardened stainless steel. A material that is not readily shaped and stamped - hence the design motif. It goes deeper:
1) Vice a traditional body on frame truck where all the strength is derived from a heavy internal frame, the cybertruck moves the structure to the skin. Where given mass can be more effective in to creating a stronger structure - i.e. lighter but stronger. Unibody and monocoque.
2) Stainless steel does not require paint. Simplified production and manufacturing.
3) Significant production advantages as it removes manufacturing costs of stamping metal. It can be laser cut and formed like an origami to a degree.
4) Durability of skin to hard use

There's probably more that I'm forgetting. I wouldn't dismiss Tesla for theatrics. A lot of their designs go back to first order principles where their design decisions are driven to optimize overall trade space, while not being beholden to traditional car manufacturer values. Even some of the same reasons why we value our Airstreams.
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Old 12-13-2019, 01:30 PM   #410
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This has been a great thread, and I still am very happy to have placed a reservation on the first night.

Many people are still focused on the visuals and the range as negatives. The prior post called out the function over form of the Cybertruck design, which canít be dismissed.

The range is going to be fantastic at the top tier, and fully acceptable when towing. If I need to stop for an hour to recharge after 5 hours of towing, sounds great to me (60mph x 5 = 300 miles of towing range). This is very reasonable to expect from any long drive, I donít want to tow for 8-10 hours with only a 15 minute gas stop in the middle. Hop in your airstream and take a nap or make lunch!

Tesla is defining the future of automobiles. Iím excited to finally be a part of that movement. (Iíll also be getting a new electric VW Bus when released for my wife to drive!)
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Old 12-13-2019, 03:47 PM   #411
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Originally Posted by truckasaurus View Post
Another article, this one mentions that the 'towing monster' may have a much higher weight of greater than 8,501 lbs.
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-cybe...s-carb-letter/

A better article explains it https://electrek.co/2019/12/13/tesla...8_zcocrOu-4gWw

My understanding is the Cybertruck is to weigh no more than a Ford F-150. That could be for the base model, with the 500 mile/3-motor version weighing more.
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Old 12-13-2019, 07:37 PM   #412
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Cool. This truck, with its massive battery weight, will not need a w/d or sway control hitch to tow an Airstream. I wonder what the actual axle ratings and payload will be.
The assumption that it won't need sway control is just plain wrong. The WD hitch, maybe, maybe not. It depends on how much weight the trailer takes off of the front end.

The sway control is still necessary because regardless of how heavy the truck is, if the trailer is not properly balanced, and is going too fast, it will sway. The truck may be heavy enough that the swaying trailer won't turn the truck over, but the trailer swaying all over the highway is a danger in itself. The trailer swaying is a function of the trailer's balance and speed. The tow vehicle has absolutely nothing to do with the sway.
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Old 12-13-2019, 07:49 PM   #413
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Agree. You should not tow an imbalanced trailer. But if its balanced it won't sway.
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Old 12-13-2019, 10:25 PM   #414
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There's some confusion in regards to the cybertruck potentially being classified as a light/medium duty truck, aka 3/4-ton HD truck. Remember that the cybertruck is not following traditional truck norms. It is a direct competitor to the 1/2-ton F150. Yet it also punches above traditional 1/2 ton trucks in capacities.

One thing to understand is GVWR (gross vehicle weight rating) - it's the maximum operating weight of the truck, that includes both curb weight and payload.

The cybertruck, in all variants, is spec'd to have a 3,500lb payload.

Let that sink in for a second. There is no current 1/2 truck that comes anywhere near that type of payload capacity. F150s payload range from 1,485 to 2,311 lbs.

Class 2b trucks have a GVWR of 8,501–10,000 lbs. What we can derive from this, as we know the max 3500 payload of the cybertruck, is that the curb weight will be somewhere between 5000 lbs - 6500 lbs. A range somewhat in between the F150 and F250 curb weights.

Not light. And not ridiculously heavy. Considering that the Porsche Taycan, an EV sports car weighs 5,132 pounds.

The Cybertruck will double the payload capacity of the F150, double the distance range of the Porsche Taycan, with efficiency to rival a Prius.
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Old 12-14-2019, 07:10 AM   #415
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1) Vice a traditional body on frame truck where all the strength is derived from a heavy internal frame, the cybertruck moves the structure to the skin. Where given mass can be more effective in to creating a stronger structure - i.e. lighter but stronger. Unibody and monocoque.
.
While not a Mechanical engineer, I would think a faceted design for a monocoque structure would not be optimum because of stress being concentrated at the facet joints. Iím not trying to rain on the parade; just trying to be objective.
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Old 12-14-2019, 07:30 AM   #416
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Agree. You should not tow an imbalanced trailer. But if its balanced it won't sway.
But that is not what you said here:

Quote:
Originally Posted by out of sight View Post
Cool. This truck, with its massive battery weight, will not need a w/d or sway control hitch to tow an Airstream. I wonder what the actual axle ratings and payload will be.
You said sway control was unnecessary because the truck was so heavy. Posting nonsense can get a new person trying to learn into a world of hurt.
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Old 12-14-2019, 07:58 AM   #417
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But that is not what you said here:



You said sway control was unnecessary because the truck was so heavy. Posting nonsense can get a new person trying to learn into a world of hurt.
That's what I said and I stand by it. Not only that I've proven it. Now, back to EV's.

One thing I'd worry about when charging is that most of the charge stations I've seen do not allow pull-throughs or have limited space around them so that you'd have to unhitch in order to charge. Major hassle.
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Old 12-14-2019, 08:11 AM   #418
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There's some confusion in regards to the cybertruck potentially being classified as a light/medium duty truck, aka 3/4-ton HD truck. Remember that the cybertruck is not following traditional truck norms. It is a direct competitor to the 1/2-ton F150. Yet it also punches above traditional 1/2 ton trucks in capacities.

One thing to understand is GVWR (gross vehicle weight rating) - it's the maximum operating weight of the truck, that includes both curb weight and payload.

The cybertruck, in all variants, is spec'd to have a 3,500lb payload.

Let that sink in for a second. There is no current 1/2 truck that comes anywhere near that type of payload capacity. F150s payload range from 1,485 to 2,311 lbs.

Class 2b trucks have a GVWR of 8,501Ė10,000 lbs. What we can derive from this, as we know the max 3500 payload of the cybertruck, is that the curb weight will be somewhere between 5000 lbs - 6500 lbs. A range somewhat in between the F150 and F250 curb weights.

Not light. And not ridiculously heavy. Considering that the Porsche Taycan, an EV sports car weighs 5,132 pounds.

The Cybertruck will double the payload capacity of the F150, double the distance range of the Porsche Taycan, with efficiency to rival a Prius.
I don't think there's any confusion at all. Tesla in their own comment on the truck said they expect it to be classified as a medium duty truck per CARB rules, probably because Tesla wants to brag about it's supposed payload. The weight capacity of a vehicle has nothing to do with it's energy source, more to do with suspension and strength.

"The Cybertruck will double the payload capacity of the F150, double the distance range of the Porsche Taycan, with efficiency to rival a Prius."

If the Cybertruck doubles the payload of a F150, and weighs over 8,500 lbs doing it, then it's a F250. So Tesla making the comparison of a Cybertruck to a half ton truck was always fraudulent. About as absurd as trying to comparing seating capacity of a five passenger sedan to a motorcycle.
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Old 12-14-2019, 09:53 AM   #419
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With this cyber truck, we can just set the autopilot and go back in the trailer and take a nap. Can't wait!
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Old 12-14-2019, 10:30 AM   #420
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With this cyber truck, we can just set the autopilot and go back in the trailer and take a nap. Can't wait!
And likely with the "stealthy" design, you likely won't have to worry about being nabbed by "radar" for speeding or running a stop light!
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