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Old 11-27-2019, 05:06 PM   #201
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Old 11-27-2019, 05:28 PM   #202
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It’s hard to take someone seriously who travels around in an RV and then worries about Miami being underwater in a few years because of CO2.
It's true that it seems like a conflict to drive an RV and be concerned about climate change, but there are so many variables that it's hard to generalize. It's your total carbon footprint that is important. All of the energy for our home comes from electricity with some supplemental heat from an efficient wood-burning fireplace. We live in a province where about 90% of the electricity is produced from zero-carbon emitting sources.

There are two parts to lowering carbon emissions, the actions we can take on our own, and the actions that need to be taken by governments that we support by voting. Ontario has no coal burning power plants because a government that I voted for closed them. Canada has a carbon tax (which economists agree is the most efficient and effective way to curb climate change, with the least adverse effects on the economy) because of a government I voted for.
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Old 11-27-2019, 07:18 PM   #203
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It's true that it seems like a conflict to drive an RV and be concerned about climate change, but there are so many variables that it's hard to generalize. It's your total carbon footprint that is important. All of the energy for our home comes from electricity with some supplemental heat from an efficient wood-burning fireplace. We live in a province where about 90% of the electricity is produced from zero-carbon emitting sources.

There are two parts to lowering carbon emissions, the actions we can take on our own, and the actions that need to be taken by governments that we support by voting. Ontario has no coal burning power plants because a government that I voted for closed them. Canada has a carbon tax (which economists agree is the most efficient and effective way to curb climate change, with the least adverse effects on the economy) because of a government I voted for.
Lots to agree with here.

More than a decade ago we moved from a suburb to a denser urban area. Land use has the predominant impact on our personal carbon footprints. Our building is on a district heat system. We have no additional fuel bill for heating or hot water, and our electricity bill is around $40 per month, depending on whether we run the AC more or less. 95% of our provincial electrical grid is from renewables. We have had a provincial carbon tax for 11 years, and have the strongest economy in the country, despite that.

All of the above means that I don’t feel guilty when we go on frequent driving holidays. Fewer GHG emissions than flying.

We don’t have an EV, because we can’t charge it at home yet. Probably next year. Likely a Model Y, because we like SUVs. Maybe a Mustang Mach E.
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Old 11-27-2019, 07:28 PM   #204
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Old 11-27-2019, 07:29 PM   #205
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Lots to agree with here.

More than a decade ago we moved from a suburb to a denser urban area. Land use has the predominant impact on our personal carbon footprints. Our building is on a district heat system. We have no additional fuel bill for heating or hot water, and our electricity bill is around $40 per month, depending on whether we run the AC more or less. 95% of our provincial electrical grid is from renewables. We have had a provincial carbon tax for 11 years, and have the strongest economy in the country, despite that.

All of the above means that I don’t feel guilty when we go on frequent driving holidays. Fewer GHG emissions than flying.

We don’t have an EV, because we can’t charge it at home yet. Probably next year. Likely a Model Y, because we like SUVs. Maybe a Mustang Mach E.
What kind of trailer do you tow while on vacation? Your tow vehicle? That has a lot to do with the ‘balance’ being discussed.
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Old 11-27-2019, 10:06 PM   #206
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Hi, and while some forum members are trying to clean up the air; There is a chemical factory in Texas on fire and a 19 year old volunteer fireman in Australia setting forest fires. [just to name a few] You can't win!
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Old 11-27-2019, 11:53 PM   #207
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What kind of trailer do you tow while on vacation? Your tow vehicle? That has a lot to do with the ‘balance’ being discussed.
We sold our tow vehicle, and don't have a trailer now. If I needed to tow with an EV right now, I think I would be limited to a Model X and a lighter AS. In two years, I think there will be more options. I would still want a lighter AS, no more than a 23.

The alternative would be a dedicated tow vehicle now, and it would be stored with the trailer in a storage lot within 30 km. A mid size SUV would fit in the parkade.
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Old 11-28-2019, 03:42 AM   #208
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We sold our tow vehicle, and don't have a trailer now. If I needed to tow with an EV right now, I think I would be limited to a Model X and a lighter AS.
. . .
Then this thread might be of interest:

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f463...-x-160951.html

Happy trails,

Peter
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Old 11-28-2019, 05:50 AM   #209
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Hi, and while some forum members are trying to clean up the air; There is a chemical factory in Texas on fire and a 19 year old volunteer fireman in Australia setting forest fires. [just to name a few] You can't win!
And California is enacting it’s own vehicle regulations but half of it is on fire.
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Old 11-28-2019, 06:00 AM   #210
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It's true that it seems like a conflict to drive an RV and be concerned about climate change, but there are so many variables that it's hard to generalize. It's your total carbon footprint that is important. All of the energy for our home comes from electricity with some supplemental heat from an efficient wood-burning fireplace. We live in a province where about 90% of the electricity is produced from zero-carbon emitting sources.

There are two parts to lowering carbon emissions, the actions we can take on our own, and the actions that need to be taken by governments that we support by voting. Ontario has no coal burning power plants because a government that I voted for closed them. Canada has a carbon tax (which economists agree is the most efficient and effective way to curb climate change, with the least adverse effects on the economy) because of a government I voted for.
Canada also has a very low population density and 1/10 of the population of the US. I’m sure that helps with emissions. The growth of manufacturing in the US recently has increased energy usage and probably increased CO2 emissions a bit. Unfortunately we have abandoned much of our rail infrastructure to create some really nice biking and hiking trails, a colossal waste in my opinion. It’s a compromise, but I’ll take the robust economy and vote to keep things moving.
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Old 11-28-2019, 06:30 AM   #211
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canada also has a very low population density and 1/10 of the population of the us. I’m sure that helps with emissions. The growth of manufacturing in the us recently has increased energy usage and probably increased co2 emissions a bit. Unfortunately we have abandoned much of our rail infrastructure to create some really nice biking and hiking trails, a colossal waste in my opinion. It’s a compromise, but i’ll take the robust economy and vote to keep things moving.
👍👍👍
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Old 11-28-2019, 07:42 AM   #212
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Back to Tesla... one thing that I find painful while towing with my gas rig is that many station pumps are setup to accommodate trailers unless you are pulling a diesel. The few supercharger stations I have seen are usually in the corner of a parking lot or in front of a coffee shop... Neither of those are going to work well for a truck pulling a trailer.
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Old 11-28-2019, 08:02 AM   #213
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Hi, and while some forum members are trying to clean up the air; There is a chemical factory in Texas on fire and a 19 year old volunteer fireman in Australia setting forest fires. [just to name a few] You can't win!
I don't think it's fair to malign volunteer firefighters. I've been a volunteer firefighter and I know many volunteer firefighters who aren't arsonists.

In fact in one of the departments I was in the arsonist was a full time policeman. I don't think his also being a firefighter had anything to do with it.
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Old 11-28-2019, 10:48 AM   #214
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Attachment 356937

I've got my order in for the 500+ mile variant. We'll see how details get sorted out, and it'll be 2-3 years anyhow by the time I really need to make a decision.

To say the cybertruck is interesting and absolutely different is an understatement. Polarizing yes, but I'm more interested in the utility part of the discussion.

I know I could enjoy this vehicle for typical SUV/truck uses. The question is whether it could be successful as a tow vehicle.

On most every front, it absolutely will deliver. Consider
1) Power and torque - based on performance numbers given by musk, that puts power in the range of 800 horsepower (597 kiloWatts) and 1,000 pound-feet (1,356 Nm)
2) Regen braking - fine digital braking control downhill with all 4 wheels is going to be another level of stability currently not found in the most sophisticated ICE engine brakes.
3) Capacity and Stability - rated at 3,500lbs payload and 14,000lb towing, there's no question
4) Seating - Enormous interior with seating for 6. That 6 is magic for me as is why I currently own an SUV
5) Storage - Not just the rather large enclosed bed 6.5ft "vault" as they call it. But also a huge frunk, huge in below bed storage, and storage in the bed buttresses.
6) Built in 115V/220V/Compressor - this is game changing and could run my Airstream AC even. Why bother upgrading an AS with lithium with this type of support vehicle towing.
7) Autopilot under tow - Currently this feature is disabled in the Model X when towing. Hopefully their algorithms improve in the future to allow for this. It would be a game changer with blissful stress-free driving on the open road. The current system in the Model X does allow for Traffic-Aware Cruise Control which is still mighty fine and helpful.
8) Solar onboard - this goes back into the onboard 115V/220V power sources too. This would be a nice to have boondocking, with potential to regen up to 15 miles per day range as well.

Hesitations:
9) Range - 500+ mile range is good. Very good by even ICE car standards. Untouchable by currently sold EVs. We all know range drops dramatically while towing, mostly on account of aero/speed. Recent tests with the Model X show range to drop 30-50% depending on conditions. If they can deliver a Cybertruck with 500 mile range, working range may be more like 300 miles. Which is still generally okay.
- Trip Chargers - Longer slogs will require a Supercharger, or other slower charging network, en route. This is doable on most every major route today with Tesla's growing supercharger network, but many of us like to travel to more remote regions.
- More interesting is that most every trip has a "Destination charger" at the RV park if opting for a full hookup site. Tesla's can be charge on the 30 or 50amp chargers. Best case would be something like 25-30 miles charged per hour which should be able to "fill-up" the vehicle significantly for the next day. I might not even balk at full hookup site prices as it'll include "gas". Maybe in the future this will be an upcharge for EVs, which I'm okay with too, as it's incredibly cheaper than gas.

Trip planning could take into account less distance made daily, with more time spend relaxing (and charging) at RV parks. With perhaps a bolus here or there with Superchargers when available.

My final decision will depend on the state of charging infrastructure when the cybertruck finally delivers. Who know, Musk may surprise and turn 500+ into something greater. Or possible aux trip batteries further extending trips which seems rather possible given the huge payload capacities.

Divisive, but this cybertruck will be game changing no matter which side of the fence you are on.
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Old 11-28-2019, 12:17 PM   #215
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Canada also has a very low population density and 1/10 of the population of the US. I’m sure that helps with emissions. The growth of manufacturing in the US recently has increased energy usage and probably increased CO2 emissions a bit. Unfortunately we have abandoned much of our rail infrastructure to create some really nice biking and hiking trails, a colossal waste in my opinion. It’s a compromise, but I’ll take the robust economy and vote to keep things moving.
Canada's total output is lower because it has a lower population, but the per capita output is virtually the same as for America.
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Old 11-28-2019, 12:40 PM   #216
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Thanks Gene! Do we anticipate all your post is really saying is your not interested in the new technology? Remember, you sold your AS and got an SOB. (newer technology??).. Got to have some sort of attraction to different technology, from what I read...albeit, that fits most of us I guess...
You really didn't understand what I wrote I guess. I think new technology is essential to make for better lives. The newest stuff is often expensive and may not work too well, but that is the process of refining new things. Thanks to the people who have to have the latest thing—first adopters spend the money that the manufacturers use to improve the product and lower the price so I will buy them. Airstream's basic technology was created several generations ago by Wally Byam and while there have been improvements since, mostly it has been cost cutting and minor changes.

The Nash is far better insulated, has more space inside, and meets our present needs quite well. If we were still traveling thousands and thousands of miles, we might have kept the Airstream because it tows better and fuel usage is less, but we have changed what we do. Northwoods Mfg, the company that makes Nash, Arctic Fox and Desert Fox, has better reliability ratings than Airstream or Thor. We have had far fewer problems with the Nash. Airstream fanboys cannot grasp that fact.

As someone else wrote, the Tesla truck will probably end up looking better than the model we're seen. it might only be as ugly as the Lexus grille. I'm sure it will not be available when Tesla has promised. They have never met a major deadline and most companies on the cutting edge, don't. That is also part of the process of developing new things.
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Old 11-28-2019, 12:51 PM   #217
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On one level, I appreciate Elon Musk's innovative spirit and even as a long time petrol-head I agree with his stated assertions that it is in the interest of the long term viability of our planet and species that we wean ourselves away from fossil fuels. Still, I feel that there is too much huckster and showman in him and it makes me wonder sometimes about whether he is being completely honest about his products.

For example, a month ago Porsche took a production Taycan to the Nürburgring and set a new record for EV's. Musk then showed up with a one-off "plaid" 3 motor version of the model S that won't be available for at least another year that was additionally modified with stripped interior, roll cage, spoilers and racing rubber and proceeded to tout the fact that it beat the stock Porsche's time. Okay. Then last week a video showed up where the Tesla truck is shown winning a tug of war with a Ford F150 which, according to reports, was a lowly base model with 2 wheel drive. Hmmm...

These may seem like small things and I realize no manufacturer is perfect, but along with some of the other broken promises and delays which have plagued Tesla it makes me leery of buying from them. I'm definitely in the market for an EV now that I can charge from my own solar installation, but I won't be buying a Tesla. Just my very subjective $.02.
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Old 11-28-2019, 01:17 PM   #218
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Guys like Musk are rare and often a bit loony. Who else would take such chances? Who else would be clever enough to make it work so far? Building a car manufacturer from scratch is almost impossible, so while he has had problems, he did it. And that's not all he has done. There is too much focus on his loony side and his screw ups and not enough on what he has accomplished.

Would I buy his truck? No. I have a truck and it runs very well.
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Old 11-28-2019, 01:52 PM   #219
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There is too much focus on his loony side and his screw ups and not enough on what he has accomplished.
I don't agree with much that you posted. But I absolutely agree with this.

People can dismiss the fanfare, showmanship, missteps. At the bigger picture level, Musk is doing more to change the industry, beyond the car industry, and some would go so far as humanity... more than any other individual at the moment. Even when he misses an aggressive self imposed a delivery target, what is delivered when it is delivered is still way earlier than what the established set is able to do.

BTW, the Model Y is now projected to deliver earlier than launch estimates. From late 2020 to summer 2020.

A Tesla is not just an EV. That's what other other EV manufacturers are missing the point, and ultimately profitability on.

Arguably, Tesla are some of the best performing, safest, easy to use, satisfying, I could go on. Many here simply don't understand because they've never even owned, or experienced one. And I get it, change is hard for many.
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Old 11-28-2019, 03:00 PM   #220
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6) Built in 115V/220V/Compressor - this is game changing and could run my Airstream AC even. Why bother upgrading an AS with lithium with this type of support vehicle towing.
Could you give any more details on this? What is it?
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