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Old 11-23-2019, 05:58 PM   #121
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Really hard to charge an electric truck when you're boondocking in the middle of nowhere unless you're able to attach 2000 watts of solar panel to it - perhaps then you could charge it a couple of days. I like the idea but would require minimum of five to six hundred miles range well towing 7000 pounds of Airstream with a 1-hour turnaround time for charging. then there's still the problem of being able to Boondock with an electric vehicle.
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Old 11-23-2019, 06:28 PM   #122
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All the issues around EV's in general (I like them) are irrelevant to the discussion of this truck for me because it is so d*mn ugly. That reason alone would keep me from even considering buying one.
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Old 11-23-2019, 07:31 PM   #123
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Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but who wants to hold bees?

Here are some objects that when they were first revealed were considered ugly, loathsome and/or an abomination:

The Louvre's Pyramid entrance


The Eiffel Tower


The World Trade Center


Viet Nam War Memorial Wall


There are doubtless hundreds of examples you could cite. What one generation may revere, the next may ridicule, and vice versa. I get the cybertruck's design. I generally like it, but once I see it in person, may like it more or be disappointed.

Regardless, if the vehicle itself proves to be strong, durable and economical, it's visual presentation may be overlooked. If it is overpriced, problematic, unworkable or inefficient, its looks will be irrelevant.

Few would say the classic Jeep is a vision of beauty, but it has certainly become iconic and there are legions of fans.

The VW bug's looks were also widely panned at first. And in a stroke of advertising genius, even Volkswagen joked about it. In time, it's homely appearance became charming, even an asset to some degree.

I think NASA's Lunar Module is super cool, so imagine my surprise when I found out that Neil Armstrong, who as a boy was enamored with sleek airplanes, thought it ugly to no end.

And, BTW, I think the Airstream exterior is iconic and perhaps even beautiful, but the heavy oak, log cabin/granny interiors? Not so much.
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Old 11-23-2019, 08:12 PM   #124
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Ok, guys, we all think it is pretty ugly (well it's actually starting to grow on me) but the last laugh is on all of you. Musk has tapped into a pickup truck buying group that Ford, Chevy and Chrysler never had. A group so turned off by the whole narrative of the pickup truck, gun-rack, construction hat conservatives that actually buy all the trucks. He is selling to the liberal geeks!

As of today, he has taken orders for 146,000 cybertrucks!

I would say that it is a success. Now don't be saying that most of those orders will end up in refunds. When the model three came out he sold 180,000 the first day and 99.9% bought the car two years later. I'm one of them!
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Old 11-23-2019, 08:18 PM   #125
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As an afterthought. Musk said the ballbearing test worked over 50 times on the windows. How many news organizations showed the "screwup" on their news shows over and over even two days later? I think it was marketing genius! Every news network and a lot of internet blogs carried it.

You can't buy that kind of advertising! Here it is working!

https://youtu.be/g7LDa3CKjO4
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Old 11-23-2019, 08:43 PM   #126
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Elon wants to sell to the pickemup crowd

The cybertruck may well be a nerd truck, but Elon wants to save the earth. He says that as successful as Tesla has been so far in selling EVs, the sedan planform is not a large segment. What is selling is trucks. Ford is even abandoning the car segment (save the Mustang) and focusing entirely on trucks/SUVs/crossovers.

So Elon says he wants a part of the tens of millions-plus per year market, if only to make a dent in emissions. If so, that 140k pre order needs to grow an order of magnitude.

But Elon can't do conventional, it's just not in his DNA. He also does not have any Tesla stores outside large cities where we pickemup folk live. So, after he installs lots more superchargers in places like Iowa and Wyoming and Arkansas, he may want to figure out how to reach that market, if he's really serious.

But he may instead be making a play for the next generation. Let's face it, the cybertruck is not being aimed at anyone over 60. Very, very few of those folks are going to buy any brand of EV, much less from a new company they have never dealt with. I'd wager he's after those under 35, maybe even younger.
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Old 11-23-2019, 09:07 PM   #127
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Here you go! This may replace my wife's wrangler!
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Old 11-23-2019, 09:25 PM   #128
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Really hard to charge an electric truck when you're boondocking in the middle of nowhere unless you're able to attach 2000 watts of solar panel to it - perhaps then you could charge it a couple of days. I like the idea but would require minimum of five to six hundred miles range well towing 7000 pounds of Airstream with a 1-hour turnaround time for charging. then there's still the problem of being able to Boondock with an electric vehicle.
Maybe you missed the part where the truck itself has a range of up to 500 miles.... add in the trailer batteries and re-calculate....OK boomer .. lol just kidding
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Old 11-23-2019, 09:45 PM   #129
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Originally Posted by skyguyscott View Post
Here are some objects that when they were first revealed were considered ugly, loathsome and/or an abomination:

There are doubtless hundreds of examples you could cite. What one generation may revere, the next may ridicule, and vice versa. I get the cybertruck's design. I generally like it, but once I see it in person, may like it more or be disappointed.

Regardless, if the vehicle itself proves to be strong, durable and economical, it's visual presentation may be overlooked. If it is overpriced, problematic, unworkable or inefficient, its looks will be irrelevant.

Few would say the classic Jeep is a vision of beauty, but it has certainly become iconic and there are legions of fans.

The VW bug's looks were also widely panned at first. And in a stroke of advertising genius, even Volkswagen joked about it. In time, it's homely appearance became charming, even an asset to some degree.

I think NASA's Lunar Module is super cool, so imagine my surprise when I found out that Neil Armstrong, who as a boy was enamored with sleek airplanes, thought it ugly to no end.

And, BTW, I think the Airstream exterior is iconic and perhaps even beautiful, but the heavy oak, log cabin/granny interiors? Not so much.
No doubt you can find always find someone who thinks anything is ugly. From my unsophisticated perspective on design, none of the items on your list have ever struck me as ugly and some, like the Vietnam War Memorial, are simply inspired.

That said, the design of the Tesla truck just hits me the wrong way and I don't think it's something that will grow on me, no matter how many people pre-order them. I respect and admire Musk's desire to sell products that have the potential to change the world for the better. I just wish he'd designed an electric truck that didn't look like two doorstops fused together or I might have thought about buying one someday. Just my very humble opinion.
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Old 11-23-2019, 09:52 PM   #130
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From my earlier post elsewhere.

When I was five I designed my truck . . .
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Old 11-23-2019, 10:48 PM   #131
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No doubt you can find always find someone who thinks anything is ugly. From my unsophisticated perspective on design, none of the items on your list have ever struck me as ugly and some, like the Vietnam War Memorial, are simply inspired.
Indeed, here's a sampling of the initial reactions to the following:

Eiffel Tower:
"truly tragic street lamp," a "belfry skeleton," and a "mast of iron gymnasium apparatus, incomplete, confused and deformed." It was called a "high and skinny pyramid of iron ladders," a "giant ungainly skeleton upon a base that looks built to carry a colossal monument of Cyclops, but which just peters out into a ridiculous thin shape like a factory chimney." citation
Viet Nam War memorial:
“black gash of shame,” the “degrading ditch,” ...nihilistic...a disservice to history...a black trench that scars the Mall.”'citation
Louvre Pyramid:
“an architectural joke, an eyesore, an anachronistic intrusion of Egyptian death symbolism in the middle of Paris, and a megalomaniacal folly" -- and these were the nicest and these from fellow architects! citation
WTC:
“These are big buildings, but they are not great architecture…..The Port Authority has built the ultimate Disneyland fairytale blockbuster. It is General Motors Gothic.”citation and "The Twin Towers were described as looking similar to "the boxes that the Empire State Building and the Chrysler Building came in"... "just glass-and-metal filing cabinets"..."example of the purposeless giantism and technological exhibitionism that are now eviscerating the living tissue of every great city" citation
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Old 11-24-2019, 06:33 AM   #132
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Actually, now that I have replaced my traditional Pickup TV with a state of the art GLS 450 with EQ mild hybrid, I am more in the market for an all electric around town grocery hauler... This thing is not on my list. Hate the single center screen interior ala the Model 3, and no, I won't be considering that vehicle for my local errands running electric utility vehicle. Now if someone would just introduce a small electric pickup truck... If Volvo would adapt its upcoming all electric (branded Recharge) XC40 to an open bed vehicle, I'd be very happy. But that's what they make utility trailers for...
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Old 11-24-2019, 06:35 AM   #133
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Old 11-24-2019, 09:56 AM   #134
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Here you go! This may replace my wife's wrangler!
Congratulations! (I think...) Not sure if it was posted earlier, but wondering about specs for towing, payload, etc..any numbers you can share appreciated. I don't really like the design looks, but they may soften it by the time it is released. Jury is going to be out for awhile I am sure, but would be great to see the specs/projections. Be interesting to watch anyway...
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Old 11-24-2019, 11:34 AM   #135
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Congratulations! (I think...) Not sure if it was posted earlier, but wondering about specs for towing, payload, etc..any numbers you can share appreciated. I don't really like the design looks, but they may soften it by the time it is released. Jury is going to be out for awhile I am sure, but would be great to see the specs/projections. Be interesting to watch anyway...

Here you go. I'm noy buying this to pull the Airstream so I ordered the middle spec.
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Old 11-24-2019, 11:48 AM   #136
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Here you go. I'm noy buying this to pull the Airstream so I ordered the middle spec.
Impressive payload & stats! Not sure why your "cheating" yourself by getting the middle of the pack? That means you can only go 128mph, max and drive only 300 miles on a charge! Looking forward to seeing this one after production starts...thanks again. Wondering if actual mileage will be same while towing...if so, not too bad if 1/2hour charging and stations are increased. Maybe a good propane generator in the back can be of use with that big payload!
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Old 11-24-2019, 12:23 PM   #137
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There are quite a few interesting things going on with this truck that don’t seem to get a lot of attention yet.

Full torque at zero rpm, electric motors are the undisputed best drivetrain for towing/pulling... the limiting factor is obviously the power source and the big 500mi range number sounds promising as it is finally high enough that I bet it can do 100-200 miles with an airstream...

If an electric truck has sufficient range to make it comfortably towing between campsites then the idea of 50amp service at a site can be quite useful for topping off the truck batteries with any excess power not used by the trailer... A couple days at a campsite and hitting the road without needing fuel would be a pretty nice capability if they can pull it off.

Similar to this a ready supply of amps would support some trailer power at rest areas perhaps.

Any truck with a battery system that is cooled well enough to support heavy towing loads/use should hopefully be able to handle the inrush of regen going downhill... seems like this could be the advantages of a Diesel engine brake but better as your tank is filling going down the other side of the mountain. Possibly a risk that you lose your ‘engine’ breaking due to a full or hot battery... the haul up the hill should help the first point but would seemingly hurt the second... certainly the kind of problem that Engineers should be able to tackle.

The simplified stainless body panels and unibody construction are an interesting idea too. A unibody can certainly do the job of a traditional body on frame but stiffer and better if it is built heavy enough... unfortunately the typical approaches have been to use super light sheet metal to cut costs vs heavy steel in a frame... that said the new GM trucks are showing that even the venerable steel frame is getting comically this in the interests of cutting weight and crash safety. If Tesla can build a burly stainless unibody that is stout enough for the job that could be an interesting optimization. I also like the idea of no paint required or possibly vinyl wraps for color that are easier to repair. The super thin aluminum that waves when you look at it in new Fords and GMs seems pretty lacking in this area... The flat angular design should be simplier to manufacture as well keeping costs down...

The sail panels and bed cover of the Tesla truck seem to reflect the extremely practical nature of the typical configurations covering the bed of most trucks I see pulling campers these days. Leaving aside the subjective opinions of the look for a moment from the standpoint of aero dynamics there are many interesting things about the shape that speak to the design intent and optimization.

And lastly a couple words on ‘the look’ as that seems to be all anyone cares to mention... I believe that much of the blowback is hating on the unfamiliar and that much of that will pass as people get used to it. The new GM trucks were panned as ugly when pictures and initial photos were published. As a minor refresh there wasn’t as much to get worked up about but still it was unfamiliar and people complained that their older generation was better. Flash forward a year and impressions have moved towards more favorable. At the same time they have made the existing designs look a bit dated. With this new Tesla it will also likely grow on people over the next couple years as it becomes more familiar. At the same time it will make all existing designs based on 100 years of iteratively developed design language look exceptionally dated. I expect to see more of these retro-futuristic design notes showing up in other vehicles soon.

In the end I believe that in 4 years when I plan to replace my current GMC there might be a real interesting EV truck option to consider. I hope that is the case. If I wasn’t into towing an airstream I would say that future is now (well 2 years to ship.. give it 4 on Elon time). Those Tesla specs hit all the high points of a good working short haul truck that would be 100% of my use minus the Airstream and likely similar for many others too.
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Old 11-24-2019, 12:38 PM   #138
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Originally Posted by mtbackpacker View Post
There are quite a few interesting things going on with this truck that don’t seem to get a lot of attention yet.

Full torque at zero rpm, electric motors are the undisputed best drivetrain for towing/pulling... the limiting factor is obviously the power source and the big 500mi range number sounds promising as it is finally high enough that I bet it can do 100-200 miles with an airstream...

If an electric truck has sufficient range to make it comfortably towing between campsites then the idea of 50amp service at a site can be quite useful for topping off the truck batteries with any excess power not used by the trailer... A couple days at a campsite and hitting the road without needing fuel would be a pretty nice capability if they can pull it off.

Similar to this a ready supply of amps would support some trailer power at rest areas perhaps.

Any truck with a battery system that is cooled well enough to support heavy towing loads/use should hopefully be able to handle the inrush of regen going downhill... seems like this could be the advantages of a Diesel engine brake but better as your tank is filling going down the other side of the mountain. Possibly a risk that you lose your ‘engine’ breaking due to a full or hot battery... the haul up the hill should help the first point but would seemingly hurt the second... certainly the kind of problem that Engineers should be able to tackle.

The simplified stainless body panels and unibody construction are an interesting idea too. A unibody can certainly do the job of a traditional body on frame but stiffer and better if it is built heavy enough... unfortunately the typical approaches have been to use super light sheet metal to cut costs vs heavy steel in a frame... that said the new GM trucks are showing that even the venerable steel frame is getting comically this in the interests of cutting weight and crash safety. If Tesla can build a burly stainless unibody that is stout enough for the job that could be an interesting optimization. I also like the idea of no paint required or possibly vinyl wraps for color that are easier to repair. The super thin aluminum that waves when you look at it in new Fords and GMs seems pretty lacking in this area... The flat angular design should be simplier to manufacture as well keeping costs down...

The sail panels and bed cover of the Tesla truck seem to reflect the extremely practical nature of the typical configurations covering the bed of most trucks I see pulling campers these days. Leaving aside the subjective opinions of the look for a moment from the standpoint of aero dynamics there are many interesting things about the shape that speak to the design intent and optimization.

And lastly a couple words on ‘the look’ as that seems to be all anyone cares to mention... I believe that much of the blowback is hating on the unfamiliar and that much of that will pass as people get used to it. The new GM trucks were panned as ugly when pictures and initial photos were published. As a minor refresh there wasn’t as much to get worked up about but still it was unfamiliar and people complained that their older generation was better. Flash forward a year and impressions have moved towards more favorable. At the same time they have made the existing designs look a bit dated. With this new Tesla it will also likely grow on people over the next couple years as it becomes more familiar. At the same time it will make all existing designs based on 100 years of iteratively developed design language look exceptionally dated. I expect to see more of these retro-futuristic design notes showing up in other vehicles soon.

In the end I believe that in 4 years when I plan to replace my current GMC there might be a real interesting EV truck option to consider. I hope that is the case. If I wasn’t into towing an airstream I would say that future is now (well 2 years to ship.. give it 4 on Elon time). Those Tesla specs hit all the high points of a good working short haul truck that would be 100% of my use minus the Airstream and likely similar for many others too.
Don't imagine we will see a new "Tesla PU" outside the Blackfoot Brewery...at least for a couple years!
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Old 11-24-2019, 01:58 PM   #139
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This just in...

Just saw this on FB...pretty funny, or maybe not so funny! (no harm intended here...honest!)

From the site:
Press Release**
In a joint communique, Tesla and Airstream announced a pairing of the Tesla CyberTruck and the Airstream Cyber-A-Frame. The Cybertruck is designed to have the utility of a truck with the performance sports car. Built to be durable, versatile, capable and high-performance both on-road and off. The new Airstream features a 1 Terabyte/second WiFi upload and download speeds. Download a two hour 4K movie in 0.3 seconds. The Airstream Cyber-A-Frame comes standard with a fully automatic three tank recycling system. Using a system developed by NASA, Airstream Cyber-A-Frame uses advanced Artificial Intelligence to automatically convert blackwater and gray water to the fresh, highly purified water which your whole family can enjoy. Never add water or drain tanks again!
Available with optional, stylish pre-broken side windows.



— with Jim Colby.
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Old 11-24-2019, 04:44 PM   #140
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My guess is that Musk allowed for this ugly design for aerodynamic purposes and to get as many miles out of the battery as possible.

And is there a direct correlation that after the unveiling of this truck that shares of Tesla fell 6%?

And as to charging these at RV campgrounds I’m not sure any smart campground would allow for that without a significant increase in a fee. Although I’m not sure how running the trailer and charging the pickup can happen at the same time. I can’t imagine campgrounds putting in fast chargers at this point.
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