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Old 12-20-2019, 12:52 PM   #1
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Ford Mustang Mach E vs Tesla Model X

The Mustang Mach-E looks pretty good. It's going to give the Tesla Model X a run for its money.

The Telsa can tow 4980 Lbs with a max tongue weight of 498 lbs. Does anyone know the Mach-E's tow specs?
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Old 12-20-2019, 01:11 PM   #2
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Another "Tesla Killer" in the making. Great expectations that will turn out tepid just like many of the other newly introduced EVs.

When it comes down to final objective numbers of range/efficiency/power with value/cost, it just reinforces how far ahead Tesla is with their EV technology, which shouldn't be surprising given Tesla's 10 year head start and investments. Majority of these new vehicles aren't even competitive with the Model S released in 2012, let alone the latest 2020 models.

Efficiency is a big thing for EVs. Without efficiency, it takes bigger heavier batteries to get the same range and performance. More batteries is more cost. More weight. Less dynamic performance. And less efficiency. It impacts dynamic handling qualities. But also charging speed and performance as the recently released Taycan demonstrates - even with potential class leading 350kw charging performance, because it has such dismal efficiency, the actual miles charged per hour is only average.

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As a sports car enthusiast, that appreciates muscle cars, I just can't get over how their bastardizing the Mustang brand. Which compromises the muscle car Mustang and new world EV Mustang.

Still, I applaud Ford for joining the fold. Just give it another name.
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Old 12-20-2019, 01:21 PM   #3
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The Mach-E is planned to come in at under $60,000. Is the Model X really worth $40,000 more?

Note that there is nothing in common with the traditional Mustang:
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Old 12-20-2019, 01:33 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by out of sight View Post
The Mach-E is planned to come in at under $60,000. Is the Model X really worth $40,000 more?

Note that there is nothing in common with the traditional Mustang:
The Mach-E is not a competitor to the Model X. The Model X is a technology tour-de-force and not your average mainstream vehicle. For that, it easily justifies its 40k premium.

The Mach-E will be in a class to the soon to be released Tesla Model Y.

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Towing capacities are unknown. I would say not much as these class of vehicles, including their ICE breatherin are not exactly known for their towing prowess.
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Old 12-20-2019, 01:46 PM   #5
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One problem for towing is that the unibody construction probably doesn't have the structural integrity to attach a decent hitch. I believe this is why the Cybertruck looks so weird. In order to tow a 14,000 lb trailer with a unibody they really had to think about how to spread out the loads, so they came up with a heavy "exoskeleton" of 1/8" stainless steel.

I'm guessing the Mach-E will have around 5000 lb max towing. I'd like to see how they attach the hitch receiver.
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Old 12-20-2019, 09:31 PM   #6
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I would also compare the Mustang Mach E to the Model Y, not the Model X. I would add in the BMW iX3 to that comparison. This is based on physical dimensions as much as anything.

I don’t think the Model Y will compete directly with the Mach E, as the Tesla stands on its own. The biggest competitor to the Model Y will be the Model 3.

What Ford can do is leverage their dealer network, and cater to those who do not need the range of the Tesla.

It has been reported that Ford advised that the Mach E will not be set up for towing.

As a former Mustang owner, I don’t mind them using the Mustang name at all. My 66 notchback represented a significant shift in Ford product design. The first generation Mustang helped redefine Ford. That is the common element here with the Mach E. I admire what Ford is doing with the Mach E, because they are using up some hard earned marketing capital and thus signifying that they are serious. Good for them. The 1974 Mustang II based on a Pinto was a problem. This one isn’t, to me. If they are serious about moving into BEVs, great. Their work with Rivian is another sign of their commitment.

I am not as likely to buy a Mach E, because of the limited space inside, as well as the lower efficiency and consequential range hit. Although they call it an SUV, I wouldn’t. I will look at it, and will consider the iX3, as BMW has several generations of electric vehicles as a foundation, but right now the dual motor long range Model Y is the leading contender. I don’t expect that any of these will be suited for towing.
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Old 12-21-2019, 06:34 AM   #7
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Ford could utilize their vast number of dealer locations as sights for Ford "superchargers" where feasible. It would be a quick way to access real estate for chargers nationwide and greatly enhance and accelerate their entry into the EV market.
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Old 12-21-2019, 07:58 AM   #8
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Ford is already claiming that they have the largest charge network in the US. 35,000 plugs.
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Old 12-21-2019, 09:44 AM   #9
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Ford could utilize their vast number of dealer locations as sights for Ford "superchargers" where feasible. It would be a quick way to access real estate for chargers nationwide and greatly enhance and accelerate their entry into the EV market.
In CA, we've had compliance EVs from most major manufacturers, including Ford, since 2011. The idea of charging at dealerships, as they needed to install the chargers as support equipment anyways, has been around since then as well. Most all of them offered their chargers as free to the public.

Effectiveness - not really. Most had 1 charger installed. They are few and far between enough that it really didn't make a difference. Many now are no longer for public use. Nevermind the dealerships are so tight and busy that they use the spots as just another parking space for them to shuttle vehicles around so counting on these chargers was never a good idea.

Quote:
Originally Posted by out of sight View Post
Ford is already claiming that they have the largest charge network in the US. 35,000 plugs.
It's great that Ford will be unifying many 3rd party networks to also work under their own payment system umbrella.

Let's not get too excited about the marketing spin. Those same chargers exist today, most of which are slower Level 2, and are accessible to the general EV population. Including Tesla's. Still, a step in the right direction. I'd like to see Ford do their part to further expand the charging infrastructure rather than to just leveraging an existing network.
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Old 12-21-2019, 09:45 AM   #10
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Seems it would help the electric car market to standardize charging stations to a universal format.
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Old 12-21-2019, 09:57 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pteck View Post
Another "Tesla Killer" in the making. Great expectations that will turn out tepid just like many of the other newly introduced EVs.

When it comes down to final objective numbers of range/efficiency/power with value/cost, it just reinforces how far ahead Tesla is with their EV technology, which shouldn't be surprising given Tesla's 10 year head start and investments. Majority of these new vehicles aren't even competitive with the Model S released in 2012, let alone the latest 2020 models.

Efficiency is a big thing for EVs. Without efficiency, it takes bigger heavier batteries to get the same range and performance. More batteries is more cost. More weight. Less dynamic performance. And less efficiency. It impacts dynamic handling qualities. But also charging speed and performance as the recently released Taycan demonstrates - even with potential class leading 350kw charging performance, because it has such dismal efficiency, the actual miles charged per hour is only average.

Attachment 357952

As a sports car enthusiast, that appreciates muscle cars, I just can't get over how their bastardizing the Mustang brand. Which compromises the muscle car Mustang and new world EV Mustang.

Still, I applaud Ford for joining the fold. Just give it another name.
Ford has bastardized several of it's brands over the years...Thunderbird is a good example....Just sayin...
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Old 12-21-2019, 10:06 AM   #12
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Both or any electric vehicle at this present time would be a very poor tow vehicle. Why you ask?? a) very limited range (especially when towing) b) difficulty with charging at campsites (forget Boondocking) c) forget road trips especially through the Rocky Mountains - this is just a brief glimpse.

What we require for towing is: A) minimum 500-700 mile range WHILE towing. B) ability to fully charge in one hour while travelling C) Ability to charge via portable generator such as a 3400 Champion Dual Fuel from our low pressure propane connection. IMHO anything less is just a troubled dream!
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Old 12-21-2019, 10:30 AM   #13
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We would also need accessible pull-through charge stations. As it is now you would have to unhitch every time you wanted to charge.
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Old 12-21-2019, 04:02 PM   #14
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Charging an electric vehicle from a gas generator while on the road has to be really impractical. Think about it. A truck usually carries between 26 and 40 gallons of fuel for a trip. That's how much gas a generator would need to refill the electric truck. Not to mention the time it would take.
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Old 12-21-2019, 04:41 PM   #15
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'lectric ?

Electric vehicles? You mean coal-fired don't you? In 2017 30% of electricity was created by coal. How do coal-fired vehicles contribute to road creation and maintenance without a fuel tax?
Just askin'.
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Old 12-21-2019, 05:34 PM   #16
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Electric vehicles? You mean coal-fired don't you? In 2017 30% of electricity was created by coal. How do coal-fired vehicles contribute to road creation and maintenance without a fuel tax?
Just askin'.
Did you have to go common sense and ruin everything 😊
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Old 12-21-2019, 05:52 PM   #17
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How did this turn into the biggest thread I’ve seen and it has nothing to do with AS’s or towing one!!!
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Old 12-21-2019, 08:23 PM   #18
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Electric vehicles? You mean coal-fired don't you? In 2017 30% of electricity was created by coal. How do coal-fired vehicles contribute to road creation and maintenance without a fuel tax?
Just askin'.
Exactly. It would be great if we could tow our AS trailers around with less environmental impact but the EV is not the answer. Yet. They are barely environmentally friendly as it is by the time you make one and keep it charged, much less trying to use them for towing. Electricity production is cheap with natural gas and coal and the new technologies for producing energy that way is more environmentally friendly than it’s ever been before.
Maybe one day hydrogen fuel technology will be perfected but until then oil and the internal combustion engine choices is the only feasible way to go. EVs aren’t the answer for sure.
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