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Old 12-05-2019, 12:40 AM   #321
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You people with your big low mileage to the watt, need to be in the “Oh look at me in my BIG EV TRUCK pulling your fancy camper” trying to be the biggest thing on the road folks make me sick! You don’t care about the environment at all. You don’t care about the safety of people or the planet. Those big EV trucks you drive consume more power per-mile and when you hit someone like me in my little EV car that weighs about 25% of your BIG TRUCK, I get killed. If you really want to save the planet and mankind, you’ll not buy one of those NEW BIG EV TRUCKS and buy a little EV car like me who really cares about the planet/mankind and learn how to pitch a tent. Oh another thing, you should only be allowed to go camping 3-days a year and no more than 25 miles from your house because all the usage the National Park System, BLM, etc.…property has right now, is currently destroying those areas too. If you want to go camping, do like you did when you were 3-6 years old, spread a blanket over a couple of chairs in the living room of your house and camp in that!!

For all those thinking about getting an EV truck to be on the leading edge and show how much you care, the above is coming. It’s not a question of “if” but “when”

Enjoy,
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Old 12-05-2019, 12:48 AM   #322
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A reminder that ohmman's thread about towing with the Tesla Model X provides a good real-world overview of some of the issues.

[Post #208 -- click on orange arrow to go directly there]
Quote:
Originally Posted by OTRA15 View Post
Then this thread might be of interest:

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f463...-x-160951.html

Happy trails,

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Old 12-05-2019, 12:54 AM   #323
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ROBERTSUNRUS View Post
Hi, several times on this forum people have mentioned about the "GAS mileage" they get from their Diesel trucks; Now I just leaned that Teslas have a "GAS pedal".


I'm so confused.


The experience of test-driving the Model X was confusing, with the gas pedal being the hardest skill to master IMO. When you "take your foot off the gas" the car "applies the brakes" quite firmly, so that where we might want to "coast" in our normal driving pattern, say to slow down for a red light ahead, the Tesla uses that moment to re-generate some electricity, by braking firmly.

"My Right Foot" was the result.



If you only drove an EV, of course the mind/body/feet would get it right eventually IMO.

Peter
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Old 12-05-2019, 01:06 AM   #324
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PS -- FYI an earlier more-general thread about electric tow vehicles, with 500+ posts:

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f463...le-169483.html


FYI/FWIW
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Old 12-05-2019, 01:08 AM   #325
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OTRA15 View Post


The experience of test-driving the Model X was confusing, with the gas pedal being the hardest skill to master IMO. When you "take your foot off the gas" the car "applies the brakes" quite firmly, so that where we might want to "coast" in our normal driving pattern, say to slow down for a red light ahead, the Tesla uses that moment to re-generate some electricity, by braking firmly.

"My Right Foot" was the result.



If you only drove an EV, of course the mind/body/feet would get it right eventually IMO.

Peter
Hi, accelerator pedal.
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Old 12-05-2019, 06:15 AM   #326
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Been following along. Pretty enlightening thread, at times. I think if I lived in, and worked in the city, Iíd have an ev now. Same reasoning for a ev tow vehicle. If we didnít drive thousands of miles to vacation, Iíd be looking more closely at an ev tow vehicle. I do now see the logic in owning and driving the Tesla truck, but Iím not going to get rid of a perfectly good truck and spend $60,000 to $80,000 when Iím putting 15,000 miles a year on my Tundra without worrying about fuel range. Iím sure a fair amount of natural resources and energy are used up just in manufacturing a new ev truck. Someone will have to explain the economics of it to me on when is it time to switch over. My old tundra doesnít even have electric seats, let alone heating or air conditioned (seat). Itís not alive, and ready for me when I walk up to it. No remote start. Itís ice cold, or boiling hot when I get in it. So, needless to say, when a ev tow vehicle makes sense, Iíll be all over it.
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Old 12-05-2019, 06:36 AM   #327
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Vehicles are not cleaner than a power plant, not even close.

I don’t own an EV, I drive a diesel. I have no skin in the game. But I am an engineer and just don’t like partisan BS, and that’s what most of this is.
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Old 12-05-2019, 07:22 AM   #328
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turk123 View Post
we use very little "other" fossil fuels in our Model 3. No oil changes, no radiator fluids, very little brake fluids (brake is used very little), no brake pads almost the life of the car, no air filters, no catalytic converters, mufflers, tailpipe emissions, and the list goes on.
You need to go and take a look at your Model 3 electric motors. There is a thing hanging on the side of the motors that looks like a can. It is called an "oil filter". It filters the fossil oil that lubricates the speed changing gears in the motor. Funny how even an EV has to have fossil oil in the drive train to make it work...
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Old 12-05-2019, 07:26 AM   #329
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Countryboy59 View Post
just donít like partisan BS, and thatís what most of this is.

Ditto
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Old 12-05-2019, 08:49 AM   #330
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Thought I would share some EV news from a new company, started by one of the companies I worked for few years back. Not meant to be a distraction to the seriousness of this post...so please, don't ganyone get upset and refocus your bickering on me, please.

https://www.drakomotors.com/company#company
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Old 12-05-2019, 08:54 AM   #331
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Old 12-05-2019, 10:18 AM   #332
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Found a thread from 2016 on the Tesla forum regarding initial towing experiences for aluminum-skinned kin, a Bowlus Road Chief, with the Model X. On the tow vehicle side things have obviously changed in the last three years (bigger batteries, for one), but this experience could be applicable to towing a smaller Airstream (e.g. Bambi, Basecamp, or Nest) with an electric vehicle such as the Rivian, the Cybertruck (terrible name, btw), or whatever.

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/thre...d-chief.68089/
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Old 12-05-2019, 11:21 AM   #333
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A few thoughts from a new EV owner. (We now have a Chevy Bolt for daily driving - it's obviously not a tow vehicle.)
  • We have installed a 50-amp outlet at home, with which we charge our car at home. Happily, that outlet is also RV compatible, should we ever decide to park one in our driveway for a night or two (as long as we get it out of there before the HOA can get mad enough to write us a letter).
  • Early next year we are installing 11.5KW of solar panels on our roof, which should provide enough power to run our home, charge our car, and for now still send more electricity to our utility company, overall, than we consume.
  • We have discovered that from Central to South Florida, availability of fast chargers is more than sufficient to support a round-trip venture between Orlando and Miami - even though we can't use Supercharger stations on the turnpike because we bought a different brand of EV.
  • We are more interested than ever in the idea of getting EVs and RVs to the point where one can easily tow the other a respectable distance in a day, and will be eagerly following the progress of the various truck EV's that are headed to market.
  • We have no problem with the idea of pay-as-you-go metered electrical service at an RV park that allows us charge an EV overnight while we camp there or stay in one of their yurts, cabins, or whatever. A full multi kilowatt-hour charge for an EV, overnight at 40-50 amps, will generally cost far less than a tank of diesel fuel or gasoline.
  • We won't worry about EV towing range as long as we can tow around 200 miles between charges. Once that hurdle has been cleared, we're good to make the switch.
  • We recognize that Rocinante, our International Signature 27FB, is heavier than anything we should actually tow with an EV and would be happy to right-size to something more easily towed by an EV once the 200 mile towing barrier has been reliably broken.
  • We believe that any RV towed by an EV must be electrically self-sufficient. That is, it should have enough on-board batteries and solar power such that it never needs to draw significant power from the EV. The EV has enough work, just towing the trailer around.
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Old 12-05-2019, 12:37 PM   #334
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuco View Post
(Tesla Towing Video from Engineering Explained)
This is an interesting video, thanks for sharing. I don't like his base assumption that every EV will always tow the max weight trailer for which that EV claims capability. I also don't like his speed assumption or his apparent assumption that you can't charge the vehicle once you get to your campsite. It's entirely possible, even likely, that folks who want better range while towing with an EV will both tow a lighter trailer than the maximum possible, that they will drive at slower speeds, perhaps even 55 vs. 75, and as we all know, many campsites have 30 or even 50 amp power available, depending where one chooses to make camp.

He is of course correct in his point that as of today any towing of an RV via an EV will be pushing the boundaries of the EV with respect to range. For now, range anxiety continues to be an issue for towing, though I would argue it has been largely mitigated for daily driving and even for many road trips.
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Old 12-05-2019, 12:45 PM   #335
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I think it'll look pretty atomic especially with a vintage Airstream.

Not my work, just something I saw earlier.
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Old 12-05-2019, 05:27 PM   #336
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MOD HAT ON.

This thread has gone so far off topic that major deletes have been made. Climate Change discussions become political discussions and this is not the venue for political discussions.

Please keep all future discussion on the topic of Telsa Trucks and EVs.

MOD HAT OFF.
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Old 12-05-2019, 05:54 PM   #337
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pteck View Post
From a practical point of view, in about 10 years of EV ownership, I've rarely ever had to make a conscious choice not to climate control due to range.
Perhaps a few times when I'm really cutting things close. About the same as I've done in my gas vehicle when I try to stretch to get to that next cheaper gas station.

Slowing down is much more significant of a strategy to stretch range. Something that works in both EV and ICE cars.

Interestingly, as heating uses more energy, every EV offers seat heaters, many times even in the rear seat positions, as it uses less energy than fully heating the cabin.
I guess thatís why they say YMMV.
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Old 12-06-2019, 06:35 PM   #338
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ICE v EV carbon footprints

From an interesting article here:

https://www.space.com/why-tesla-cybe...lutionary.html

Highlights:
  • The efficiency of most gasoline engines is between 17 and 21 per cent. For EVs, the conversion of electrical energy into power to drive the wheels is 59 to 62 per cent.
  • The cost of operating EVs — including fuel and maintenance — ranges between 65 percent to 77 percent less across Canada than it costs to drive and maintain gasoline-fuelled vehicles.
  • Due to its weight and size, Tesla's Cybertruck is likely to be somewhat less efficient than the electric passenger cars currently available. However, when compared to other non-electric trucks, the inherent efficiency advantage of electric motors and the aerodynamics of the Cybertruck are substantially better
  • The Union of Concerned Scientists issued a report in November 2015 that concluded:

    "Based on where EVs are being sold in the United States today, the average EV produces global warming emissions equal to a gasoline vehicle with a 68 mpg (miles per gallon) fuel economy rating."
  • That's about 3.4 litres per 100 kilometres in Canada. And in several northwestern states in the U.S., that equivalency is 94 mpg, or about 2.5 litres per 100 kilometres. This means that even the best gasoline- or diesel-powered vehicles would have to double or triple their fuel efficiency to come close to EVs.
  • In the same report, a life cycle analysis that included both the operation as well as the manufacturing of vehicles shows that a full-size EV has approximately half the environmental footprint of a full-size, gasoline-fuelled car.
  • Vehicle-to-grid (V2G) technology is also being developed around the world. V2G allows EVs to use chargers bidirectionally to turn them into mobile storage solutions — meaning EVs could help balance electricity supply and demand by making the vehicle's battery system part of the overall grid infrastructure. Vehicles could be used to store energy during periods of over-supply and provide top-ups to the grid during peak demand hours.
  • (Tesla's) gigafactories are expanding and using more renewable energy, including solar power, to reduce the ecological footprint of batteries.
  • To remain competitive with EVs, the investment firm calculates that the break-even point for gasoline is no more than $10 dollars a barrel, and for diesel, $17 to $19 a barrel.
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Old 12-06-2019, 06:45 PM   #339
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Since Hydrogen vehicles are occasionally mentioned in electric vehicle threads, I thought some of you might be interested in this:
Whatever happened to the promise of hydrogen-powered cars?
Probably nothing new here if you've already been following the news on fuel cell vehicles.
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Old 12-06-2019, 07:11 PM   #340
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidsonOverlander View Post
Since Hydrogen vehicles are occasionally mentioned in electric vehicle threads, I thought some of you might be interested in this:
Whatever happened to the promise of hydrogen-powered cars?
Probably nothing new here if you've already been following the news on fuel cell vehicles.
I read somewhere that Toyota is putting its marbles in fuel cell cars as opposed to battery powered EVís. Donít know if thatís (still) true. Does anyone here know about this?
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