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11-29-2019, 06:52 AM
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#241
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Rivet Master
2018 27' International
Southeastern MI
, Michigan
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 2,344
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobbo
Really? I can drive my ICE down any highway in this country in any direction knowing without having to think about it that when I am low on fuel, I can stop at a station and refuel. In any town. No matter how small. Leave aside the fact that a 10 minute stop gets me another 650 miles of driving. (I have a 36 gallon tank.)
Can the same be said of an EV recharge station? Or, do you have to plan ahead just WHERE you can charge when going cross country in fly over country?
When you can take off and drive without having to think about where you can recharge, the infrastructure will be ready.
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The power grid is available. And when EVs become as plentiful as gas and diesel vehicles, the utilities will subsidize and franchise ways to sell more “fuel” just like the oil companies have done for 100 years. In the early days of IC cars the same limitations existed.
For those of us who are working, it’s ready right now. We could charge up at home or at work (given an outlet which more and more workplaces will offer). Remember most pickups are used like a car, and occasionally carry materials home from Home Depot.
You have to remember change is exponential. A lot will happen in the next 10 years.
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11-29-2019, 07:19 AM
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#242
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Rivet Master
2016 16' Sport
Miami
, Florida
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 1,593
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turk123
It was brought up in the video that the charging stations are not designed for a vehicle with a trailer. Hmmm, just like most gas stations across the country!
We go to truck stops. When the Tesla electric semi-truck comes out, all the trucks stops will have the correct orientation for our pickups and trailers and, closer together than most superchargers. We just have to live long enough!
Batteries will get better, chargers will get prolific and all will be well. Just don't count on all this for another ten years or so. It will get there.
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I’m sorry but those electric semi charging stations just like the showers are reserved for truckers.
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11-29-2019, 12:40 PM
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#243
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Rivet Master
2007 27' International CCD FB
San Diego
, California
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 2,115
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Some clarifications as many here are speculating without experience with a Tesla.
Planning trips happens right up front by inputting a destination into the Tesla trip computer. It will formulate a strategy for charging stops based on current range, reserve range at each stop, live # of stalls open, how long to stop, ETA to destination, etc. Provided a supercharger is en-route. V3 superchargers today are capable of 250kw, replenishing at 1000 miles/hour of charge. This will only get better in the future, with more stations available.
Charging at "destination chargers" which would be any campsite with full hookups charges as fast as most chargers in peoples homes. So starting a day will full charge would not be atypical.
Most trips within a single "tank" range wouldn't even require a "fuel" stop. The questions is how much practical range a 500 mile variant would have with a larger airstream. Because that's the unknown for longer haul days where charging will play into the equation. As we know, this is all very predicated on speed. While the Model X video is a data point, they were also traveling as 70mph, which we know can dramatically compromise range even on an ICE vehicle.
This will certainly be interesting to understand going forward.
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11-29-2019, 01:27 PM
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#244
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Refugee from Napa, CA
2015 25' Flying Cloud
Currently Looking...
Formerly Napa
, On the road
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 614
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The broken windows were incredibly brilliant. Every network played itovere and over. The market saturation from a broken window was much cheaper advertising that GM, Ford, BMW, Toyota, etc.
Elon is brilliant at spending OPM. (Other People's Money)
__________________
Instagram. Alluminator
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11-29-2019, 01:39 PM
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#245
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Rivet Master
2007 27' International CCD FB
San Diego
, California
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 2,115
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Yes, the unplanned window breakage was a unexpected boon to marketing.
Tesla has been chasing armor glass likely because of the rash of petty theft with current vehicles. Particularly the Model 3 that has been targetted in the Bay Area. Thieves break the back quarter window to lower the seat and see if there’s something in the trunk.
Musk, always eager to seek solutions, is perhaps why armor glass or what he referred to as transparent metal, is being fitted to the cybertruck.
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11-29-2019, 01:58 PM
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#246
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Rivet Master
2022 25' Flying Cloud
NCR
, Ontario
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 3,077
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here are a few charts on costs and when EV will take over Gas car sales
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11-29-2019, 08:44 PM
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#247
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Rivet Master
2019 30' Classic
Canfield
, Ohio
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 2,559
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiny16
I’m sorry but those electric semi charging stations just like the showers are reserved for truckers.
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I know you're being funny, but today we stopped at a Love's truck stop outside of San Antonio and they had 8 Tesla chargers!!! Our local Sheets gas stations back home are adding Tesla chargers also.
Remember, these locations make money on selling sandwiches and drinks, not gas, diesel and electric!!
__________________
"At some point, throwing money at the problem *is* the right answer", Uncle Bob
x\x/x\x/x\x/x\x/x\101970\x/x\x/x\x/x\x/x\x/x\/x\x/x\x/x
Tom & Doty
2019 Airstream Classic 30 Twin
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11-29-2019, 09:25 PM
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#248
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Rivet Master
2013 27' FB International
El Dorado Hills
, California
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,023
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Here's an interesting article asserting total carbon emissions between "new" gasoline cars and electric are very close, and will remain so for decades to come, while at the same time fueling income inequality.
https://www.politico.com/agenda/stor...ronment-000660
With ever increasing population the answer is to go carless, live close to work, and use mass transit, bike, or walk. Having rode the bus in winter then biked the 50 mile round-trip for over 10 years it's not so bad actually.
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11-29-2019, 09:50 PM
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#249
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Rivet Master
1969 18' Caravel
Greenville
, whereEverIroam
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 1,409
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kscherzi
Here's an interesting article asserting total carbon emissions between "new" gasoline cars and electric are very close, and will remain so for decades to come, while at the same time fueling income inequality.
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The author's methodology used, in his own words: I used the U.S. Energy Information Administration’s most recent long-term forecasts for the number of new electric vehicles through 2050, estimated how much electricity they’d use, and then figured out how much pollution that electricity would generate, looking at three key pollutants regulated under the U.S. Clean Air Act—sulfur dioxide (SO2), oxides of nitrogen (NOX), and particulates—as well as CO2 emissions. I compared them to the emissions of new gasoline-powered vehicles, using the EIA’s “real world” miles-per-gallon forecast, rather than the higher CAFE standard values. Or, to paraphrase, he calculated how much pollution a coal-fired power plant or other fossil fuel plants would emit in order generate the electricity needed to power first generation EVs, and compared them to a world in which every vehicle in use only polluted as much as the newest, cleanest ICE engines available.
So, not taken into account:
1) Higher efficiency of newer EVs and their motors. See just Tesla's own stats regarding improvements in this area over just the last decade.
2) Not all power is generated from fossil fuel. The author did not factor in zero emission generation from wind, solar, geothermal, hydro, biomass or nuclear (all of which, save nuclear, hydro and geothermal, are on the increase while coal, especially, is in decline).
3) Finally, it goes without saying that older vehicles made in years with more lax emissions standards, which make up the vast majority of vehicles still in daily use, emit more than those under the newer standards.
All of those variables would have considerable impact in the opposite direction once taken into account.
But. ironically, saving the planet, home to every human who has ever lived, isn't really the main driving force behind most buyer's decision. And when the economics and convenience overwhelmingly tip in EV's favor, you won't be able to stop the stampede to their adoption.
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11-29-2019, 10:27 PM
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#250
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2 Rivet Member
2019 25' Flying Cloud
Bozeman
, Montana
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kscherzi
Here's an interesting article asserting total carbon emissions between "new" gasoline cars and electric are very close, and will remain so for decades to come, while at the same time fueling income inequality.
https://www.politico.com/agenda/stor...ronment-000660
With ever increasing population the answer is to go carless, live close to work, and use mass transit, bike, or walk. Having rode the bus in winter then biked the 50 mile round-trip for over 10 years it's not so bad actually.
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I hadn’t seen that report before so I did a little digging (ok I searched for this report in google to see what other papers might have cited this research). Suffice to say there are some significant concerns over the methodology used to arrive at the numbers in that report. Additionally when the models used are validated against subsequent year actual data they have come up extremely divergent.
In the end if you take the time to read that report I would encourage you to take the time to read a couple more sources before forming an opinion. It would seem that things have moved much faster in the past 4 years than anyone had predicted.
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11-30-2019, 04:37 AM
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#251
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Rivet Master
2016 16' Sport
Miami
, Florida
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 1,593
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turk123
I know you're being funny, but today we stopped at a Love's truck stop outside of San Antonio and they had 8 Tesla chargers!!! Our local Sheets gas stations back home are adding Tesla chargers also.
Remember, these locations make money on selling sandwiches and drinks, not gas, diesel and electric!!
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That’s great. The only ones I noticed were in places that would be inconvenient for a trailer such as shopping’s malls but I’m not generally looking for them either. I don’t think it will take long for them to be almost as available as gas.
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11-30-2019, 10:45 AM
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#252
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Rivet Master
2020 30' Classic
Frederick
, Maryland
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 776
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It seems clear to me that when people really start pulling trailers with EVs then campgrounds and charging stations will adapt.
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11-30-2019, 10:48 AM
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#253
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Rivet Master
2018 27' International
Southeastern MI
, Michigan
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 2,344
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kscherzi
Here's an interesting article asserting total carbon emissions between "new" gasoline cars and electric are very close, and will remain so for decades to come, while at the same time fueling income inequality.
https://www.politico.com/agenda/stor...ronment-000660
With ever increasing population the answer is to go carless, live close to work, and use mass transit, bike, or walk. Having rode the bus in winter then biked the 50 mile round-trip for over 10 years it's not so bad actually.
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Income inequality? I find that the harder I work, the more luck I seem to have.
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11-30-2019, 12:32 PM
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#254
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3 Rivet Member
2014 25' Flying Cloud
Comox
, British Columbia
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skyguyscott
But Elon can't do conventional, it's just not in his DNA. He also does not have any Tesla stores outside large cities where we pickemup folk live. So, after he installs lots more superchargers in places like Iowa and Wyoming and Arkansas, he may want to figure out how to reach that market,
But he may instead be making a play for the next generation. Let's face it, the cybertruck is not being aimed at anyone over 60. Very, very few of those folks are going to buy any brand of EV, much less from a new company they have never dealt with. I'd wager he's after those under 35, maybe even younger.
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Funny enough most of the people I know who already own an EV or are seriously considering one are in the 60 plus age group.
The 60 plus age group is a big target market for EV’s although I agree probably not the Cyber truck. ;-). For one thing the 60+ group tend to drive less mileage than the younger generation and secondly they can actually afford the higher purchase price. Not uncommon for a mature couple in these parts to own two vehicles one is a truck for pulling the trailer :-) or for running the hobby farm and their second vehicle is commonly a small car for running into town with and an EV works well for that application.
I think if you take a good look around you will find that charge stations are becoming fairly easy to find even in smaller communities such as mine, where the nearest Tesla dealer is hundreds of miles away.
I live on an Island near a fairly small town were it’s a 6 mile or more drive to the grocery store for a large part of the population. But you will find EV charge stations at many of the grocery stores, local government buildings etc. And they are not being installed by Tesla. More and more charge stations are popping up around town all the time, so no big concern with getting a fast recharge when needed. Heck even the 10 year old home I recently purchased had an EV plug already installed and the house was built by an over 55 couple who owned a Tesla. ;-)
I think I will keep my much better looking F150 for the time being. But I can easy see the second smaller vehicle being traded for an EV in the not to distant future.
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11-30-2019, 04:13 PM
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#255
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Rivet Master
2019 28' Flying Cloud
2014 22' FB Sport
Davie
, FL
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 904
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I agree. An EV at this point might make a good second car. I can't wait until they are allowed to drive themselves. As for towing, especially to remote areas, I'll keep my diesel tow vehicle.
I want to do my part for the environment and that means we need to burn more fossil fuels. You may have noticed that there is a growing body of scientific thought that says our atmospheric carbon levels are approaching a dangerously low level whereby life on earth cannot be sustained.
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11-30-2019, 05:45 PM
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#256
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Rivet Master
1964 26' Overlander
1974 31' Sovereign
Milton
, ON
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Countryboy59
Income inequality? I find that the harder I work, the more luck I seem to have.
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Not questioning how hard you work, but that's not what causes income inequality. Income inequality results from systemic discrimination, parental education level, variations in the education system, community supports, the quality of the social safety net, etc. - things that are beyond the control of the individual.
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11-30-2019, 06:27 PM
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#257
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Rivet Master
1986 31' Sovereign
Miami
, Florida
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidsonOverlander
Not questioning how hard you work, but that's not what causes income inequality. Income inequality results from systemic discrimination, parental education level, variations in the education system, community supports, the quality of the social safety net, etc. - things that are beyond the control of the individual.
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Amen
__________________
Sorta new (usually dirty) Nissan Titan XD (hardly paid for)
Middle-aged Safari SE
Young, lovely bride
Dismissive cat
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11-30-2019, 06:30 PM
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#258
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Rivet Master
2020 28' Flying Cloud
2017 23' Flying Cloud
Hiawassee
, Georgia
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 1,398
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidsonOverlander
Not questioning how hard you work, but that's not what causes income inequality. Income inequality results from systemic discrimination, parental education level, variations in the education system, community supports, the quality of the social safety net, etc. - things that are beyond the control of the individual.
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Blah, blah, blah. There will ALWAYS be income inequality because some people are smarter, more hardworking, studied harder in school, had parents that made them behave.....
Systemic discrimination my A$$
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11-30-2019, 07:07 PM
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#259
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Rivet Master
1964 26' Overlander
1974 31' Sovereign
Milton
, ON
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KK4YZ
Blah, blah, blah. There will ALWAYS be income inequality because some people are smarter, more hardworking, studied harder in school, had parents that made them behave.....
Systemic discrimination my A$$
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You're ass is dead wrong on this one, but this is too big an issue to discuss in an Airstream forum, so let's get back to electric vehicles.
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11-30-2019, 07:19 PM
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#260
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Rivet Master
2020 28' Flying Cloud
2017 23' Flying Cloud
Hiawassee
, Georgia
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 1,398
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidsonOverlander
You're ass is dead wrong on this one, but this is too big an issue to discuss in an Airstream forum, so let's get back to electric vehicles.
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Nope. When and where did everyone ever earn the same? Maybe you think you should have Elon Musk’s $$$?Not wrong, eh?
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