Porsche Cayenne, VW Touareg, Audi Q7 owners

[Tom_T]

Originally Posted by Andrew T

Hi Steve the new MDX tows even better with the 10 speed transmission. It doesn’t need a cooler because it generates very little heat.

A Cayenne or Q7 are wonderful SUV’s though. The sleeper is the Durango which is a Mercedes platform with the Hemi and 8 speed ZF. The new one has the SRT suspension available on the RT model with 20x10” rims etc.

The Durango is now also available in Hellcat 700+/- HP form Andy!

Here's your test article on the Cayenne TDI for Steve:

http://rvlifemag.dgtlpub.com/?i=2546

Go to page 6 for the start of Andy's article.

Hey Andy - apparently RV Lifestyle has changed their website again, and your Cayenne test link is no longer active.

Do you have it on your CanAm website, or have a good link to it, since folks on this Cayenne/Touareg/Q7 will still want to read up on it?

If you have any other Hitch Hints etc. on the Porsche, VW, Audi & on the MBZ, BMW & other comparable Euro &/or Asian TVs - maybe do a post with your relevant articles' links on here for reference of the members.

Thanx in advance!

Cheers!
Tom
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[Tom_T]

Originally Posted by Bier

Just thought I'd ask based on the recent comments, but would either a 2020 SQ7 or Cayenne E-Hybrid be better as a tow vehicle? Is it purely personal taste or does one or the other have a technical advantage that is meaningful (not just a cool feature)?

Looking at getting either a GT 23 or 25 FBT for my wife and I and don't currently have an appropriate TV. I see pros/cons with both of the vehicles that are my current leading candidates and both seem to be very similar in price.

On the Porsche side I like the idea of electric/hybrids for around town use, seems to potentially have more payload capacity than SQ7, and would think the handling would be slightly better than SQ7 (purely subjective opinion based on former porsche ownership). Downside is you fall back on a V6 when no juice able to help.

On the SQ7 side it has more HP/torque, 4-wheel steering for maneuverability, better brakes, and 3rd row in case we ever need it. Downsides that stick out to me are fuel econ and smaller gas tank.

Personally would be happy with either I think, and if it is strictly personal preference then cool, but wanted to check before I lock myself in.

Thanks

Bier -

You've hit the differences on the nose, but there are other V6, V6 eHybrid & V8 options out there between the Porsche & Audi stables alone.

The Cayenne not only comes in the V6 eHybrid, but also the TT V8 eHybrid with no gas only concerns. I have the same concerns in gas only mode.

However, keep in mind that the CayS eHybrid's supercharged 3.0L V6 on its own is now almost as much HP & TQ as were the original normally aspirated V8 Cayenne S in 2003-06 (the original base 3.6L VR6 was only a bit more HP/TQ than the VW VR6 engine, as used up to 2015 or so).

So if the Gen 1 CayS V8 was adequate for towing, then this 2015-18 & 2019> eHybrid combo should be good on gas only as well.

Porsche still offers a strong TT 3.0L or 2.9L V6 in Cay S & GTS, as well as TT V8 in the Turbo/Turbo S - so you have more choices there.

https://www.porsche.com/usa/models/c...ayenne-models/

Audi tends to tune their vehicles for more of a luxury performance ride & handling, whereas Porsche puts performance first - as you would know coming from the Porsche clan.

Audi's S & RS flavor Q5, Q7 & Q8 vehicles push performance a bit more, but not as much as a comparable Porsche Cayenne Turbo/TS nor the TT V8 eHybrid.

Audi also has the S6 Allroad & RS6 Avant wagon which would make a great TV, but without the added height of a jacked up SUV.

https://www.audiusa.com/us/web/en/mo.../overview.html

https://www.audiusa.com/us/web/en/mo.../overview.html

MBZ & BMW also have nice Touring wagons, as are the Porsche Panamera Tourismo & the upcoming Taycan Tourismo EV - but they're all more cagey about their USA towing packages & capabilities (whereas they're towing prowess is touted in EU, UK, etc.) - probably in order to push their SUVs instead here in the US & Canada.

Much depends on how many seats you need/want & cargo space requirements.

And - yes - much of it is personal preference.

One other advantage to the Porsche & BMW options, is that they both have strong owners clubs in PCA & BMW-CCA, such that you could use their vehicles in club events as well as TV & DD duties. So if you want to do club rallies, autocross, DE, track, concours, etc. with your vehicle, then consider their products.

Happy Hunting!
Tom
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[lilboomer]

We are very happy with this combo. MPG is 16+. A TDI would be nice for added torque but we got such a good deal on the Treg V6 Sport TECH that we couldn't pass it up. There isn't another 'extra' I can think of that wasn't standard equipment on my Treg. It is a terrific SUV even when not towing our sweet AS. We bought it used with 18K miles on it. It had a P2 and hitch installed. Frankly, everything I've read on this thread about the Cayennes and Treg TDIs fits with my experience for my Treg. My cost was just a lot less when I considered Porsche. But. . . I don't have that cool hood ornament :-(
AS mods: I replaced the OEM batteries with two Lithiums, added a portable 195W EcoWorthy solar panel that I lock on my Treg roof rack. I bought the MPPT and wiring from AMSolar. As everyone knows, they are the 'best' for products, advice, overall knowledge and service, at least on the left coast.
I replaced the awful OEM thermostat. I installed the 3" Dexter axle lifts and am VERY happy with that upgrade. Now I don't scrape the drains when stopping by deeply sloped drive-throughs and such hazardous situations. I have WD recommended by CanAM. The whole setup tows like a dream. The lifts made no discernable change to the towing-at-highway-speed experience.

[SteveNdebbie]

Originally Posted by Andrew T

Hi Steve the new MDX tows even better with the 10 speed transmission. It doesn’t need a cooler because it generates very little heat.

A Cayenne or Q7 are wonderful SUV’s though. The sleeper is the Durango which is a Mercedes platform with the Hemi and 8 speed ZF. The new one has the SRT suspension available on the RT model with 20x10” rims etc.

Thanks Andy, that’s great to know. Maybe I will remain the “MDX towing expert” on the forum after all🤪. Does the new model still use the paddle shifters and have a sport mode? Have you tested the Type S model yet? The MDX is significantly less expensive than the Cayenne and in the past Honda has been reliable for us.

Steve

[Bier]

Originally Posted by Tom_T

Bier -

You've hit the differences on the nose, but there are other V6, V6 eHybrid & V8 options out there between the Porsche & Audi stables alone.

...

Happy Hunting!
Tom
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Thanks very much for the feedback! I had been looking at the S as well but again, really like idea of hybrid if it is still capable. Didn't know the newer v6 was comparable to Gen1 S. Definitely like the turbo hybrid but can't see my wife letting me creep that high up in sticker price, (I'm the spender and she's the saver so all in all make a decent team, lol).

[Mr. Merk]

My wife is looking at upgrading her 120k mile 2008 Cayenne Turbo to a 2012 60k mile Turbo.

The bad news is that we'd likely sacrifice our 2007 25' Airstream to do so

I'd like to find a 22FB or a vintage narrow trailer to pull behind it, and dress up with vintage Porsche vibes.

[Tom_T]

Originally Posted by SteveNdebbie

Thanks Andy, that’s great to know. Maybe I will remain the “MDX towing expert” on the forum after all🤪. Does the new model still use the paddle shifters and have a sport mode? Have you tested the Type S model yet? The MDX is significantly less expensive than the Cayenne and in the past Honda has been reliable for us.

Steve

Steve -

Andy has done a test of the Tesla Model 3 which is in progress delay due to COVID travel restrictions, but I don't know about the S.

https://rvlifemag.com/the-tesla-experiment/

Our son has a 2017 S 75D which he got as a "used" T-store/dealer demo with a few 1000s miles & lifetime free charging in August-September 2017 model year close-outs, after he got tired of waiting for their then delayed again Model 3s.

So I'd like to see how Andy's long range test to the USA Rockies turns out when he finally gets to travel from his base in Ontario, Canada to the USA with his rig at that linked "Hitch Hints" article test above.

I do know that he & his wife's & then baby trip from Colorado Springs to Jackson TN for Thanksgiving at his sister's family home took much longer than all of his & our family trips in gas powered vehicles, due to the frequency & time involved with charging, & they weren't range limited further by towing.

So until & unless the EV world gets fast charging available at every gas station/fuel stop etc. everywhere - IMHO the plug-in hybrids are the way to go for city or close to home EV use, & gas or EV/Hybrid use on longer XC trips - especially with towing.

Cheers!
Tom
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[mikextr]

Originally Posted by Mr. Merk

My wife is looking at upgrading her 120k mile 2008 Cayenne Turbo to a 2012 60k mile Turbo.

The bad news is that we'd likely sacrifice our 2007 25' Airstream to do so

I'd like to find a 22FB or a vintage narrow trailer to pull behind it, and dress up with vintage Porsche vibes.

What? 120K is nothing for a well maintained 08 Turbo. But I guess with the 2012 you do get better styling and Bluetooth connectivity. I'm waiting for the 2016 Turbo S to depreciate into my price range. Looks like it still has a few years to go.

A Bowlus Road Chief would look great behind that 356.

[SteveNdebbie]

Originally Posted by Tom_T

Steve -

Andy has done a test of the Tesla Model 3 which is in progress delay due to COVID travel restrictions, but I don't know about the S.

https://rvlifemag.com/the-tesla-experiment/

Our son has a 2017 S 75D which he got as a "used" T-store/dealer demo with a few 1000s miles & lifetime free charging in August-September 2017 model year close-outs, after he got tired of waiting for their then delayed again Model 3s.

So I'd like to see how Andy's long range test to the USA Rockies turns out when he finally gets to travel from his base in Ontario, Canada to the USA with his rig at that linked "Hitch Hints" article test above.

I do know that he & his wife's & then baby trip from Colorado Springs to Jackson TN for Thanksgiving at his sister's family home took much longer than all of his & our family trips in gas powered vehicles, due to the frequency & time involved with charging, & they weren't range limited further by towing.

So until & unless the EV world gets fast charging available at every gas station/fuel stop etc. everywhere - IMHO the plug-in hybrids are the way to go for city or close to home EV use, & gas or EV/Hybrid use on longer XC trips - especially with towing.

Cheers!
Tom
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Tom,

I meant the MDX Type S. It has a 3.0 L twin turbo V6 producing 355 hp and 354 ft-lbs of torque. It may not be available yet.

Steve

[Tom_T]

Originally Posted by Bier

Thanks very much for the feedback! I had been looking at the S as well but again, really like idea of hybrid if it is still capable. Didn't know the newer v6 was comparable to Gen1 S. Definitely like the turbo hybrid but can't see my wife letting me creep that high up in sticker price, (I'm the spender and she's the saver so all in all make a decent team, lol).

Bier & other Cayenne folks - here are the relative numbers -

The 2003-06 Gen 1 955 CayS with the 4.5L Normally Aspirated V8 was:
340 HP at 6000 rpm & 310 TQ at 2500 rpm

Both the 2017-2021 958.2> Base Cayenne & the Cay E-Hybrid with the Porsche sourced 3.0L Supercharged V6 are both rated for gas engine only at:
333 HP at 5300 rpm & 325 TQ at 1340 rpm

So the 958.2 Base & plug-in E-Hybrids up to current 2021 Cayenne with the newer Porsche sourced 3.0L V6 SC motors (vs the prior 3.6L VR6 VW sourced & Porsche tuned Base & Hybrid Cayennes) are very close to the original N.A. V8 CayS, & more Torque - with both at lower RPM, particularly the TQ - which is what is the umpf for towing performance.

7 HP less but coming in 700 rpm sooner - and 15 TQ more coming in at an impressive 1160 rpm sooner.

By "TQ" I mean Pound-Feet in USA specs.
.

Note that ALL Cayennes in the USA have been DOT/SAE rated to tow 7700 (7716) lbs GTW trailers with 770 lbs HW (ignoring those later ones where Porsche was lazy & used hitches &/or manuals that stated a lower Euro/UK TUV based tow rating).

And even the later Base VW sourced 3.6L VR6 N.A. was rated at a healthy 300 HP at 6300 rpm & 295 TQ at 3000 rpm by the 958.1 era - which is comparable to or better than many other Euro/UK & Asian TVs covered in this topic.

We were originally intending to use our Cayenne 80%+ for towing - so towing power, comfort & mpg were the initial prime factors in zoning in on one of their many variants. AS/Cayenne owners reporting on here had lower mpg with both the VR6 Base & Turbo/TS Cayennes (8-12 mpg) - than the 2003-14 normally aspirated Cay S/GTS (13-15 mpg) - so for me, the CayS with steel springs was our sweet spot, because I didn't want air suspension which is standard on the similar N.A. V8 powered GTS. Otherwise, the VR6 would've been more applicable if we were to use it for more non-towing duties, and their plug-in E-Hybrid didn't come out until 2017 anyway.

Now we're looking at using the Cayenne around town much more as a DD, so the improved 3.0L SC V6 performance, coupled with gas-free EV use around town for our DD use - has me leaning more toward their plug-in E-Hybrid models instead.

While the E-Hybrid is some 300-600+/- lbs heavier than the Base or CayS depending on how they are equipped - due to the battery pack, E-motor, controls, etc. - it seems that the E-Hybrid should do fine even with the batteries depleted & in dead weight mode.

The Cay E-H should really have longer range battery packs than the 2015-20 CayS E-H's 13-14 mi & the 2021> 18-21 mi range ones in order to be more usable in both EV only & Hybrid on the road mode. Both work for local errands, and they can be recharged on the road while cruising in gas-only mode, in order to be ready for the EV motor boost on grades & passing, etc. while towing.

That said - my concern would be that the Cay E-H would be higher revving, running hotter, louder, etc. when towing due to the super or turbo chargers.

So I will & would recco that you take a longer/extended test drive or work out a weekend rental of the car (apply rental fees to purchase if ultimately bought) in order to test it towing your specific trailer(s).

That way the actual performance while towing around town, at freeway speeds, on steep grades up & down, etc. can be fully ascertained in real world conditions - vs. just hoping that the spec's numbers are realistic.

This is along the same lines as Andy T's article on Turbo 4s vs V6s below - but applied as to whether a a slower revving non-turbo V8 CayS (normally aspirated) will run cooler, stronger, better mpg, etc. - than will the new gen of Porsche 3.0L SC V6 Base & e-Hybrid &/or the 2015> 3.6L/2.9L TT V6 CayS.

https://rvlifemag.com/towing-with-a-...ged-2-0-litre/
.


FYI - The HP & TQ comparison numbers for the later Gen Cayenne S V8s are:

2008-10 957 Gen 1.5 or 2.0 CayS 4.8L N.A. V8 was -
385 HP at 6200 rpm & 369 TQ at 3500 rpm

2011-14 958 Gen 2.0 or 3.0 CayS 4.8L N.A. V8 was -
400 HP at 6500 rpm & 369 TQ at 3500 rpm

- vs -

2017-2021 958.2> Base & E-Hybrid 3.0L SC V6 gas engine only at:
333 HP at 5300 rpm & 325 TQ at 1340 rpm

So the 3.0L SC V6 is still only moderately less HP & TQ, but delivered at significantly lower rpms, which is most important for lugging a trailer around:

52 HP less but at 900 rpm higher, & only 44 TQ less but at a whopping 2160 rpm higher vs the 2008-10 955 CayS V8;

- and -

67 HP less but at 1200 rpm higher, & still only 44 TQ less but at a whopping 2160 rpm higher vs the 2008-10 955 CayS V8.
.

There is also a significant upcharge in the CayS prices in both 2003-06/08-10/11-14 V8 & 2015> V6 TT versions - over the new & used prices of all versions & trims & options of the Base & E-Hybrid Cayennes.
.

Cheers!
Tom
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[Tom_T]

Originally Posted by Mr. Merk

My wife is looking at upgrading her 120k mile 2008 Cayenne Turbo to a 2012 60k mile Turbo.

The bad news is that we'd likely sacrifice our 2007 25' Airstream to do so

I'd like to find a 22FB or a vintage narrow trailer to pull behind it, and dress up with vintage Porsche vibes.

Great pic of the Gmund racing Coupe! Love that old school cool!!

You could pair this silver Eriba Puck with that early 356 Gmund - add matching race decals & off you go - if one was so inclined to use a highly collectable early racing 356 that way!


.


We tow our Puck with a lowly `88 VW Vanagon Westfalia with the 95 HP 2.1L flat-4 WBX -
So you could easily spin those tiny 10" wheels down to the hubs with your Cayenne Turbo!


.


You could wait a while to upgrade your CT until after the current COVID driven price escalations pass, & then you will probably find a lower priced CT with less miles & possibly newer.

That said - if you look at any 2011-12 Cayenne V8 - then you want to make sure that it has had the NHTSA Cam Bolts Recall done prior to any engine damage, or else limit your search to the 2013-14 & later CT or CTS.

You having the 957 era 4.8L V8 - you should probably do both the plastic J coolant pipe in the valley, as well as the Coolant "Horseshoe" hose connections upgraded to screw attachments. Those will prevent more serious & more expensive engine failures in your current `08 CT.

These were all covered earlier in this topic way back, as well as in great detail in 6SpeedOnline.com in their Cayenne topics.

As said above - your 120K mile CT probably has some more life in it, before it starts costing more for upkeep than to get a newer one, &/or when parts start going NLA & hard to find.

So talk your wife into sitting tight on the current Cayenne for a bit, then you won't have to sacrifice your AS to afford the new CT.

Otherwise - your current AS should tow fine with any newer Cayenne. You can PM or email Andy T if you need any set-up tips etc.

Cheers!
Tom
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[Tom_T]

Originally Posted by SteveNdebbie

Tom,

I meant the MDX Type S. It has a 3.0 L twin turbo V6 producing 355 hp and 354 ft-lbs of torque. It may not be available yet.

Steve

Oh - okay!

Well then I guess that I gave the coming EV models for towing a glimpse then.

Have you folks looked at the MDX S-Hybrid option as well?

Too bad that it's not a plug-in though - what was Honda/Acura thinking with that!?

Cheers!
Tom
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[Mr. Merk]

Originally Posted by mikextr

What? 120K is nothing for a well maintained 08 Turbo. But I guess with the 2012 you do get better styling and Bluetooth connectivity. I'm waiting for the 2016 Turbo S to depreciate into my price range. Looks like it still has a few years to go.

A Bowlus Road Chief would look great behind that 356.

I'm tempted to fix up my dad's Scamp and tow it behind my '88 911

Originally Posted by Tom_T

Great pic of the Gmund racing Coupe! Love that old school cool!!



You having the 957 era 4.8L V8 - you should probably do both the plastic J coolant pipe in the valley, as well as the Coolant "Horseshoe" hose connections upgraded to screw attachments. Those will prevent more serious & more expensive engine failures in your current `08 CT.

As said above - your 120K mile CT probably has some more life in it, before it starts costing more for upkeep than to get a newer one, &/or when parts start going NLA & hard to find.

So talk your wife into sitting tight on the current Cayenne for a bit, then you won't have to sacrifice your AS to afford the new CT.

I've actually seen both of those cars up close at Luftgekuhlt events. Rod Emory is the man.

We started smelling coolant on our camping trip to Banff a couple years ago. We ended up having the intake pulled and all the coolant stuff done then.

I love the 2008 and prefer the styling to the 2012 but when momma is over a car, she's over it. It's almost not worth getting rid of considering the value, but the auction prices are pretty high these days (not to mention AS prices!) and the car is in great shape. She's a beaut Clark!

[SteveNdebbie]

Originally Posted by Tom_T

Oh - okay!

Well then I guess that I gave the coming EV models for towing a glimpse then.

Have you folks looked at the MDX S-Hybrid option as well?

Too bad that it's not a plug-in though - what was Honda/Acura thinking with that!?

Cheers!
Tom
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Thanks Tom. I just looked the Acura Hybrid up and thought I remembered that Acura advised against towing with the hybrid (wouldn’t know why) but I didn’t see that this time. So a distinct possibility although I had seen a lot of complaints about the 9 speed transmission. I wonder if the new 10 speed will be better?

I really wish the Tesla had a longer towing range. The all electric idea appeals to us. I am in the process of changing over all my gasoline engine yard tools into 60v battery powered ones. Also looking at e-bikes.

I saw this nice little car in our parking lot at work next to my Subaru. Maybe that would work for short trips - just need another stinger for the Hensley [emoji2]

[Imdakine1]

Originally Posted by Tom_T

Bier -

You've hit the differences on the nose, but there are other V6, V6 eHybrid & V8 options out there between the Porsche & Audi stables alone.

The Cayenne not only comes in the V6 eHybrid, but also the TT V8 eHybrid with no gas only concerns. I have the same concerns in gas only mode.

However, keep in mind that the CayS eHybrid's supercharged 3.0L V6 on its own is now almost as much HP & TQ as were the original normally aspirated V8 Cayenne S in 2003-06 (the original base 3.6L VR6 was only a bit more HP/TQ than the VW VR6 engine, as used up to 2015 or so).

So if the Gen 1 CayS V8 was adequate for towing, then this 2015-18 & 2019> eHybrid combo should be good on gas only as well.

Porsche still offers a strong TT 3.0L or 2.9L V6 in Cay S & GTS, as well as TT V8 in the Turbo/Turbo S - so you have more choices there.

https://www.porsche.com/usa/models/c...ayenne-models/

Audi tends to tune their vehicles for more of a luxury performance ride & handling, whereas Porsche puts performance first - as you would know coming from the Porsche clan.

Audi's S & RS flavor Q5, Q7 & Q8 vehicles push performance a bit more, but not as much as a comparable Porsche Cayenne Turbo/TS nor the TT V8 eHybrid.

Audi also has the S6 Allroad & RS6 Avant wagon which would make a great TV, but without the added height of a jacked up SUV.

https://www.audiusa.com/us/web/en/mo.../overview.html

https://www.audiusa.com/us/web/en/mo.../overview.html

MBZ & BMW also have nice Touring wagons, as are the Porsche Panamera Tourismo & the upcoming Taycan Tourismo EV - but they're all more cagey about their USA towing packages & capabilities (whereas they're towing prowess is touted in EU, UK, etc.) - probably in order to push their SUVs instead here in the US & Canada.

Much depends on how many seats you need/want & cargo space requirements.

And - yes - much of it is personal preference.

One other advantage to the Porsche & BMW options, is that they both have strong owners clubs in PCA & BMW-CCA, such that you could use their vehicles in club events as well as TV & DD duties. So if you want to do club rallies, autocross, DE, track, concours, etc. with your vehicle, then consider their products.

Happy Hunting!
Tom
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My dream to tow a Flying Cloud 23FB would have been a S6 Allroad & RS6 Avant wagon to tow but I don’t think it has the towing capacity so we ended up with a Q8.

[Tom_T]

Originally Posted by Mr. Merk

I'm tempted to fix up my dad's Scamp and tow it behind my '88 911

I love the 2008 and prefer the styling to the 2012

I prefer the looks/styling of the 2008-10 957 - which were also more payload & a bit more rugged for those going off-road - to the 2011-14 958.1 & 2015-18 958.2 - but they're pretty close to me in like factor, just different styling approach. I prefer both over the 2019> styling - especially at the now "wide mouth" grill look of the newest ones.

However, it was 2017-18 that they came out with Sapphire Blue, then 2019 only for the Biscay Blue paint - the first Cayennes with a Blue alternative to the various super dark blues offered 2003-21> - although I did also like the 2006 955 CS Titanium Ed. in Iceland Silver, which was a light silvery blue similar to the Cosmos Blue on my `85 BMW 325e E30.

FYI - There is a sister forum to this one under RV Life called FiberglassRV & there are a ton of Scamp owners over there who could help with whatever advice & parts sources you'll need to fix up the folks' Scamp.

https://www.fiberglassrv.com/forums/

Here's some 911 + Puck pix that I'd found before to get your mental juices flowing - just mentally substitute the Scamp for the Puck behind this 911 -




... and with an F? ...

.


You may still be able to get a new, NOS or used 911 G factory hitch sent over from Porsche or Germany/EU/UK with the gooseneck ball - which should be adequate for the Scamp, but the electrical hook-up would need to be updated to USA 4/7-pin.

More Pix & detailed ones of the 911 G factory hitch on the top one here -
https://carbuzz.com/news/this-porsch...he-unthinkable

Bird site forum Euro/ROW 911 Towing Specs -
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsc...w-vehicle.html

Food for Thot!
Tom
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[Tom_T]

Originally Posted by SteveNdebbie

Thanks Tom. I just looked the Acura Hybrid up and thought I remembered that Acura advised against towing with the hybrid (wouldn’t know why) but I didn’t see that this time. So a distinct possibility although I had seen a lot of complaints about the 9 speed transmission. I wonder if the new 10 speed will be better?

I really wish the Tesla had a longer towing range. The all electric idea appeals to us. I am in the process of changing over all my gasoline engine yard tools into 60v battery powered ones. Also looking at e-bikes.

I saw this nice little car in our parking lot at work next to my Subaru. Maybe that would work for short trips - just need another stinger for the Hensley [emoji2]Attachment 390468
Attachment 390469

Yeah Steve, that Acura warning is odd since Honda doesn't do so for their twin Pilot Hybrid as far as I know. Maybe the Pilot is a better option, since they often get rated higher than the MDX in articles that I've read.

Andy T said above that the 10 speed was better.

Nice looking Subie!

On the Tesla Roadster - I think that the Lotus sourced chassis will be the limiting factor, but one could check their UK/Euro ROW Tow specs to see what it might be able to tow.

I've always liked that first Tesla production EV Roadster, & a buddy had one & liked it immensely - enjoying blowing Ferraris, Vettes, etc. off the line. Only death at 85 stopped his EV Lead Foot ways!

The bigger Tesla S & X batteries are now up to 402 mi or more range - so that would probably give 250-300+ mi towing range if you were careful with the "Go Pedal" & used Cruise Control (Andy's tips), judging by Andy T's test article range on the Model 3 that I'd posted above earlier.

Our son's 2017 S 75D at 300+ mi - being a later `17 - which would about the same as the Model 3 using the same battery pack, which is about 200 mi when towing according to Andy's article.

Cheers!
Tom
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[Tom_T]

Originally Posted by Imdakine1

My dream to tow a Flying Cloud 23FB would have been a S6 Allroad & RS6 Avant wagon to tow but I don’t think it has the towing capacity so we ended up with a Q8.

I remember our discussions on your choices, and the Q8 is good looking with your rig from the pix that you've posted before in here.

Whenever we get serious again about buying another car/TV - then I'll probably take a closer look at their tow ratings, option & equipment.

So far I'm not seeing anything on the Audi USA website for towing options & specs - but I know that they have them for ROW/EU/UK which were pretty healthy at 5000-5500+ lbs (2100-2500 KG for 2018-21 specs I've seen).

We would certainly prefer a lower CG & easier to get in/out & use wagon - over the taller & higher CG SUVs - being in our late 60s & early 70s now, & hoping to remain active vintage campers for many years to come.

I just don't get why Porsche, Audi & VW play such silence games on towing with their cars/wagons here in the USA - when they're obviously designed for it in ROW.

The BMW & MBZ wagons - as well as the Porsche Panamera Tourismo & upcoming Taycan Tourismo "wagons" would be nice alternatives if they had USA 2" receiver factory hitches available.

Gen 1 970 Panameras were rated for 4850 lbs braked towing in EU/UK/ROW, while the new Gen 2 971 is variously reported at 7716 lbs braked - same as the Cayenne.

These are probably using the aftermarket 970 & 971 "Stealth" hitches:


.


.



.


Porsche Panamera Tourismo sets Nuringburg Ring Towing Record:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iP_zTAEClV8

Hmmmm....
Tom
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[SteveNdebbie]

Originally Posted by Tom_T

Yeah Steve, that Acura warning is odd since Honda doesn't do so for their twin Pilot Hybrid as far as I know. Maybe the Pilot is a better option, since they often get rated higher than the MDX in articles that I've read.



Andy T said above that the 10 speed was better.



Nice looking Subie!



On the Tesla Roadster - I think that the Lotus sourced chassis will be the limiting factor, but one could check their UK/Euro ROW Tow specs to see what it might be able to tow.



I've always liked that first Tesla production EV Roadster, & a buddy had one & liked it immensely - enjoying blowing Ferraris, Vettes, etc. off the line. Only death at 85 stopped his EV Lead Foot ways!



The bigger Tesla S & X batteries are now up to 402 mi or more range - so that would probably give 250-300+ mi towing range if you were careful with the "Go Pedal" & used Cruise Control (Andy's tips), judging by Andy T's test article range on the Model 3 that I'd posted above earlier.



Our son's 2017 S 75D at 300+ mi - being a later `17 - which would about the same as the Model 3 using the same battery pack, which is about 200 mi when towing according to Andy's article.



Cheers!

Tom

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Thanks Tom. I do really like my Outback. That replaced the Acura Integra GSR. It does WAY better in the snow!

Does the Pilot feature the SH-AWD? We really like the torque vectoring (although I still will take the Subie over the MDX in a snowstorm [emoji1]

Now if Tesla can just get 500 miles towing range. But then what do you do when you are on SR 140 in lower Oregon heading east into Nevada? One gas station, regular fuel and diesel only at 1 1/2 times the normal price...

[Andrew T]

Re the Tesla Range. When planning to go to Denver the spot I was concerned about was in eastern Colorado. 116 miles between superchargers likely a headwind and 200’ of elevation gain.

In the back of the Tommy I can carry a 7000 watt inverter generator for emergency power. Would likely only need it for an hour or two. Just enough top up to make the next supercharger.
I see this as a relatively short term problem. They are adding superchargers pretty quickly.

I’ll likely get the new model S as soon as I can see one and test drive it. The old model S had a weaker cooling system than the 3 or X. The new one has solved that.