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Old 05-24-2021, 06:13 AM   #1321
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You won’t be able to carry the spare on the back of the car when towing. If your still on your original Air Springs probably time to replace them. Arnott industries is a good source for them.
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Old 05-24-2021, 06:17 AM   #1322
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Porsche Cayenne, VW Touareg, Audi Q7 owners

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glen Carter View Post
I tow my TB19CB with my Cayenne S/957 w/air suspension w/o WD hitch.Attachment 396023


Hi Glen
The Cayenne is so stable it will feel pretty good with a 19 and no weight distribution. However you will be much safer with one. It’s also easier on the rear suspension and you’ll get a smoother ride. You can never loose the trailer as well. If you send me an email I can send you the information you need andy@canamrv.ca there is also video of the setup process on our website.

https://www.canamrv.ca/towing-expertise/videos/

Andy
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Old 05-24-2021, 08:23 AM   #1323
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Originally Posted by Bier View Post
Spoke to Can-am today and will hopefully be up there towards end of August (trying to book somewhat far out to give more time for the borders to open up). Based on conversations over the last year here's what I'll be doing to get the SQ7 ready to tow our FC 25FBT:
  • Reinforce the factory receiver
  • Set up an Eaz-lift elite weight-distribution hitch
  • setup 2 friction sway controls
    [*]install a Tekonsha Prodigy P2 brake controller (going for the wired vs. wireless for reliability)

Really looking forward to getting the work done and getting our new trailer for some late summer/fall camping
I have been using the Tekonsha RF brake controller for years and it has worked flawlessly. The best thing about it is there is no unsightly brake controller mounted under the dash when I am not towing, which for the majority of people, is the majority of the time, it just goes in the console.

It is also great because I just give my FIL the controller and he can tow my trailer with his Toureg.
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Old 05-24-2021, 12:21 PM   #1324
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Originally Posted by Bier View Post
Not saying you're wrong as I only know what's in the owner's manual, but what I was referring to is from my 2021 Q7 owner's manual that states trailer mode for air suspension vehicles comes on when you plug in the 7-pin and that you can manually turn it off via the MMI (see image). This easily could be completely unrelated to what Imdakine is talking about, but was just wondering if manually switching off tow mode had any affect on the items he was mentioning.

Thanx for posting that page Bier, as it clarifies this discussion which is going a few directions at once.

It certainly makes sense to have a way turn off the automatic tow mode for a bike carrier, cargo carrier/rack, etc.

I was trying to explain how the automatic tow mode works with the receiver sensing the towbar/stinger - not with the 7-pin electrical connector (as far as I know), because you'd need tow mode if you lose the 7-pin with the trailer hitched on the road.

So my caution would be not to disengage the tow mode for trying to fix other problems while towing. One thing that Imdakine mentions is the side mirror lane or passing vehicle warning sensor was turned off by the to mode, which I mentioned was done so you won't get false warnings off of the trailer - according to the Porsche Tech Session folks, as for the LCA (Lane Change Assist) & some of the other driver assist options.

Maybe a member on here or a factory tech reading here could post a comprehensive list - if someone has a list of the items, functions & options turned off in tow mode - for the Audi Q7/Q8/Q5, VW Touareg/Tiguan/Atlas/etc., Cayenne/Macan (& Taycan/Panamera in UK/EU) & the other Euro SUVs/CUVs TVs.

I think that we're all trying to help from different directions, & hopefully those with the questions get them answered one way or another!

Cheers!
Tom
///////
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Old 05-24-2021, 12:34 PM   #1325
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Otis Porsche View Post
Tom, thanks for the detailed response! Lots of homework to research. Our target is to hit the road February 2022. Also need to research how well Airstream's do in cold temps. Will search the forum for help.
Not returning to Tuktoyaktuk soon where we saw -40F temps but will travel in freezing temps. We do clean 'Otis' up after an adventure - had to de-ice after the below 5,510 mile (one way) trip. Shipped ours back to the lower 48 from Anchorage and flew home.
You mentioned PCA - there is an article on our 958 in the December 2016 Pano.
Ha! I thought your pix looked familiar!

But I couldn't resist the poke to a fellow PCA member!

I know back in the olden times you could custom order from the factory special winterized options/packages for most all of the "Silver Twinkies" of the 1960s-70s, but it was an "off the books" sort of a thing.

We had a neighbor who was going to do a CanAm Highway run to Alaska in the mid-1960s that got their Silverstreak customized that way by the factory, & then did some more themselves after delivery, that my Dad & I helped them installing. Later on my High School buddy bought it from them when he went up to work on the pipeline.

I don't know if AS under Thor today would still do it, but if you dangled the Pano & other publicity under their noses, then they may be more willing to do it as an exception.

I get the impression that otherwise AS/Thor works about as willingly as Porsche for "Exclusive Manufaktur" on any other vehicle than a 911 in recent years. As Pano wrote about in trying to get customer order colors "approved" for Cayennes back in the mid-2000s or so.

Also - if you're shipping your 958 too, then you can probably use one 40' container for both, & the 40 footers are far more common & available than 20 footers anymore in the shipping & logistics industry.

Good Luck!
Tom
///////
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Old 05-24-2021, 12:49 PM   #1326
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Otis Porsche View Post
Otis -

In your pic above - I noticed that you stuck with the standard CS 18" 5-spoke wheels on yours.

Did you do so for wheel strength, keeping the snow/ice & off-road wheel crude out of the nooks-n-crannies of the other wheels, for better cushioning & suspension effect of the taller profile 18" tires, more selection, lower cost & easier to find 18" tires (relative to larger size & lower profile tires), or what?

I know that I prefer them for those reasons, as well as personally liking the old school solid 5-spoke wheels look of the Fuchs & others. Porsche's new "Fuchs-style" 2019> wheels are so big at 22", that they have none of those other benefits, & the look gets off for those big size wheels, which looks like old Conestoga Wagon Wheels to me.

TIA!
Tom
///////
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Old 05-24-2021, 01:05 PM   #1327
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Question Trivia History Question for the Audi Folks with a Bonus Question for the Halibut

Okay -

I have a fun Trivia History Question for the Audi Folks, with a Bonus Question - but this is NOT a contest for who can google it the fastest!


Let the folks who might know it from memory have a chance to show their stuff, because any fool can get their fingers flashing to look it up!


No prizes - just kudos for knowing something about the cars you own.
.

Question:

What do the 4 Rings of the Audi Logo represent?

.


Bonus 2 Part Question:

What was the original name when they started using the 4 rings logo, & what other car companies were involved?

.


And I don't mean the current ownership by VW, &/or that Porsche, Bentley, Lamborghini, Bentley, SEAT, Skoda, etc. are all owned by VW today!


You'll have to use your "Way Back Machine" to get this bonus one!

And those who get my Rocky & Bulwinkle Peabody reference above will probably know it, we all being "of a certain age"! .... as in old-n-crusty!!


Good Luck Audiphiles!
Tom
///////
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Old 05-24-2021, 02:18 PM   #1328
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom_T View Post
Question:
What do the 4 Rings of the Audi Logo represent?

Bonus 2 Part Question:
What was the original name when they started using the 4 rings logo, & what other car companies were involved?
I'll bite. The four rings were for the four car (or motorcycle, in the case of DKW) brands that merged to form Auto Union AG (now known as Audi AG): Horch, DKW, Wanderer, and Audi. The original Audi was formed in 1910, and what is now Audi AG was formed via merger in 1932.

Bonus trivia: "Audi" is a latin translation of the last name of the company's founder, August Horch.
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Old 05-24-2021, 03:33 PM   #1329
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Auto Union and two other words, I believe D was Deutschland.

One of the four companies was DKW, but it is easy to remember for me as an uncle was president of the DKW car club. Two strokes that reminded me of the SAAB 96 two strokes.
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Old 05-24-2021, 04:23 PM   #1330
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom_T View Post
Otis -
In your pic above - I noticed that you stuck with the standard CS 18" 5-spoke wheels on yours.
Did you do so for wheel strength, keeping the snow/ice & off-road wheel crude out of the nooks-n-crannies of the other wheels, for better cushioning & suspension effect of the taller profile 18" tires, more selection, lower cost & easier to find 18" tires (relative to larger size & lower profile tires), or what? TIA!
Tom ///////

We kept to the OEM 18s to get the smallest wheel and most rubber that will fit w/o modification. Enables us to air-down when needed, also, keeps the OEM lugs. It was easy to purchase two sets used locally from folks wanting larger wheels. The smaller wheels have a better tire selection. We have 12 wheels - six for three season and six for winter. This gives us two full size spares as the donut is not much use as remote as we go.
As I am to noob to post links do a search on Rennlist for - Meet Otis for our build and some of what we do.
Looking to full time travel which is why we are looking for a trailer to base out of for off-road travels.
A friend is getting a Bowlus, they come standard prepared for cold weather.
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Old 05-25-2021, 07:37 AM   #1331
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Thanks Andy

How does it work when the WD hitch is installed and I have it set for "Normal " ride height and need to use low level, loading level, high level or special terrain level to keep trailer from dragging? Like going into steep driveways....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew T View Post
Hi Glen
The Cayenne is so stable it will feel pretty good with a 19 and no weight distribution. However you will be much safer with one. It’s also easier on the rear suspension and you’ll get a smoother ride. You can never loose the trailer as well. If you send me an email I can send you the information you need andy@canamrv.ca there is also video of the setup process on our website.

https://www.canamrv.ca/towing-expertise/videos/

Andy
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Old 05-25-2021, 09:43 AM   #1332
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Otis Porsche View Post
We kept to the OEM 18s to get the smallest wheel and most rubber that will fit w/o modification. Enables us to air-down when needed, also, keeps the OEM lugs. It was easy to purchase two sets used locally from folks wanting larger wheels. The smaller wheels have a better tire selection. We have 12 wheels - six for three season and six for winter. This gives us two full size spares as the donut is not much use as remote as we go.
As I am to noob to post links do a search on Rennlist for - Meet Otis for our build and some of what we do.
Looking to full time travel which is why we are looking for a trailer to base out of for off-road travels.
A friend is getting a Bowlus, they come standard prepared for cold weather.
The "new" Bowlus is a pretty cool redux of the 1930's originals, but not everyone likes the layout.

A full size spare is essential for trailering too, since you don't want to leave the trailer on the side of the highway even in On-road travels, & I think that the can of goo & "blow-up" spare both caution not to tow nor overload the Cayenne when using them.

FYI - to post links, you can just get the web page you want up, then copy the address from the address window at the top of the browser, then simply paste it in the post, PM or email message page, then repeat as necessary.

Cheers!
Tom
///////
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Old 05-25-2021, 10:36 AM   #1333
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ealmasy View Post
I'll bite. The four rings were for the four car (or motorcycle, in the case of DKW) brands that merged to form Auto Union AG (now known as Audi AG): Horch, DKW, Wanderer, and Audi. The original Audi was formed in 1910, and what is now Audi AG was formed via merger in 1932.

Bonus trivia: "Audi" is a latin translation of the last name of the company's founder, August Horch.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcl View Post
Auto Union and two other words, I believe D was Deutschland.

One of the four companies was DKW, but it is easy to remember for me as an uncle was president of the DKW car club. Two strokes that reminded me of the SAAB 96 two strokes.
Great job to ealmasy & jcl!

That is cool about your uncle jcl, & the 96 & DKW 2 strokes - which NSU also had too.

Also bonus trivia is that VW bought NSU in the late 1960's & merged them with Audi. NSU predated Mazda in using the Wankel rotary engine in production cars during the 1960s.

So I guess the case could've been made that the Audi 4 rings should've been updated with 5 rings, but they were already embroiled in a dispute with the Olympic Committee (IOC) over trademark infringement with IOC's 5 rings-offset 3-over-2 logo. Audi won based on the 4-rings flat difference.

More bonus trivia for the Porsche & VW folks - VW's Audi & Porsche were marketed in the USA & Canada by VW of America (VoA) as combined Porsche+Audi dealerships - separate from the VW dealerships - starting in the late 1960s.

Prior to that both Porsches & Audis were just sold out of the VW dealerships, so the change cost the VW dealerships extra investment to build separate facilities - sometimes having to move for a bigger lot, or drop Porsche & Audi, or to close completely.

VW then owned Audi (Audi-NSU) - but Porsche was still independent, & VW handled North American sales & service, as well as their 1969-74 JV with VW & Porsche on the 914 & 914-6 cars - wherein in Europe/UK VW sold the 4 cylinder 914s, & Porsche sold the 914-6 versions. In 1974 VW backed out of the 914 JV, & Porsche took it over solely until 1976 when production of 914s stopped.

The later 924/944/968 line also started out as a VW-Audi sports car, designed by Porsche for them, but was taken over & solely produced by Porsche to replace the 914s, in order to switch to water-cooled engines to help meet smog control requirements, as they expected to do with the 911 to 928 lines.

So for this topic & SUVs - the Audi Q7, Cayenne & Touareg cousins were not the first VW-Porsche JV - but both the 914s then, & the SUVs since 2002-03, certainly saved Porsche financially - enabling them to continue to produce their 911 & other sports cars.

PS - A history of the Audi et al logos, FYI for those who may be interested -
https://allcarbrandslist.com/logos/audi-logo/

PSS - Another Porsche - Audi connection was that Ferdinand Porsche was an engineer at Audi during the 1930s, & during that stint he designed the Audi D-type race cars, which were one of the first mid-engine race cars. Dr. Porsche then went on to design the VW "Peoples' Car" Beetle for Hitler, Kubelwagon ("Thing" here later on), a Tiger Tank entry, then the turret was built for the winning Tigers by Porsche AG, etc. So there are those & many other long intertwining connections between the 3 automakers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auto_Union_racing_cars


Cheers!
Tom
///////
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Old 05-25-2021, 10:54 AM   #1334
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glen Carter View Post
Thanks Andy

How does it work when the WD hitch is installed and I have it set for "Normal " ride height and need to use low level, loading level, high level or special terrain level to keep trailer from dragging? Like going into steep driveways....
Glen -

Since you're here in RSM in OC - you should join the PCA OCR if not already a member, as it's worth the price just for the Panorama magazine - in addition to the events & all, plus the Per-FOUR-mance e-magazine covering the Cayennes etc.

Also check with Jim Buck at Cape Auto down your way in Mission Viejo - who also tows car haulers with his 955 or 957 about your Cayenne operational questions. He's also a PCA-OCR member who tows his AX cars with his Cayenne, & he'll know your questions about the AS levels, etc.

https://www.capeautorepair.com/

Cheers!
Tom
///////
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Old 05-25-2021, 10:32 PM   #1335
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Tom, I am a PCA member, San Gabriel
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom_T View Post
Glen -

Since you're here in RSM in OC - you should join the PCA OCR if not already a member, as it's worth the price just for the Panorama magazine - in addition to the events & all, plus the Per-FOUR-mance e-magazine covering the Cayennes etc.

Also check with Jim Buck at Cape Auto down your way in Mission Viejo - who also tows car haulers with his 955 or 957 about your Cayenne operational questions. He's also a PCA-OCR member who tows his AX cars with his Cayenne, & he'll know your questions about the AS levels, etc.

https://www.capeautorepair.com/

Cheers!
Tom
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Old 05-26-2021, 07:34 AM   #1336
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glen Carter View Post
Thanks Andy

How does it work when the WD hitch is installed and I have it set for "Normal " ride height and need to use low level, loading level, high level or special terrain level to keep trailer from dragging? Like going into steep driveways....
Glenn, I have done this with my Cayenne hooked up to the AS. I normally tow in Sport mode, which is the second-lowest suspension height. You can raise the Cayenne to any height you need to, including the high-level setting without the need to do anything.

However, if I were to want to lower it to load height, I would recommend unhooking the WD bars first. Because you are not moving while in the loading height, it probably would not hurt anything if you lowered it with the bars in place. But it will add a little extra tension on the bars when you do.
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Old 05-26-2021, 10:56 AM   #1337
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Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glen Carter View Post
Tom, I am a PCA member, San Gabriel
Glen -

You list yourself in Rancho Santa Margarita, not SGVR - so you can always switch to the OCR - & may be able to keep both.

During non-COVID times we have 1-3 events a week of various types here in OCR, & our Concours is coming up. If you went to any of your SGVR Concours when at the Art Center, then we may have met when I was there helping with judging, doing the Auto Design Studios Tour, during lunch, etc. (but I've not been since they moved from Art Center due my schedule conflicts).

If you join OCR - then our monthly "Pandemonium" magazine usually has a sponsor ad for Jim Buck's Cape Auto - or if you can borrow an issue from an OCR member near you in RSM.

If you ever came out to the OCR Concours down at Dana Point, then you probably saw Jim Buck giving kids rides on his Porsche Tractor towing the utility wagon (yet another Porsche Tow Vehicle! ) - which he also towed there with his 955/957 Cayenne BTW.

If you take your Cayenne to Jack's shop up in Pasadena (sorry, but I'm blanking on the name, & it/he hosts several SGVR events, including the Zone 8 Judges School I went to a few years back - a nice guy!) - then he'll probably also know about your best AS, PASM, etc. settings for your '05 CS 955 - although I don't know if he does any Cayenne towing himself.

If not, Jim Buck is always helpful to PCA members, as he was with me on background, quirks/issues, service & reliability of various era Cayennes at the start of my consideration & search.

If you're around OC in late Sept. 25th Saturday, there's a vintage trailer rally at Newport Dunes RV Park in Newport Beach - which is also a classic car show of sorts with many of the tow vehicles - for the 9/25 10 am - 3 pm public open house where you can tour the trailers - COVID situation permitting then.

If you do go, swing by to say "Hi!" at our site with either our 1960 Avion T20 &/or 1970 Eriba Puck &/or our `88 Westy.




.


>> Also - anyone else local or visiting then & interested in the vintage trailers are also welcome - & if you own a pre-1979 trailer of any make, you may also be able to get in with your vintage trailer (classic TV optional)

Cheers!
Tom
///////
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Old 05-26-2021, 03:15 PM   #1338
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Porsche's Original Tow Vehicle, VW Early TV, etc. History - No Truck Needed

The Porsche, VW & Audi TV story began long before the Cayenne, Q7/Q5 & Touareg/Tiguan that most of you use on this topic - or of which members are aware ....

FYI Porsche folks - long before the Cayenne was even a twinkle in Porsche engineers' eyes - this was Porsche's Original purpose designed Tow Vehicle, along with their other Tractor models:

https://patch.com/california/lagunan...-int3e35dd946d




.


However, their late-1940s to 1965 Porsche 356 various sub-models were also capable of towing Eriba Pucks & other small trailers:


.


Additionally, the German Army in 1939-45 WWII also used the Ferdinand Porsche designed VW Kubelwagon & Schwimmwagon "Jeeps" (rebooted in 1970s as "The Thing") also towed utility wagons - as the first V/A/P tow vehicle:

https://www.nevingtonwarmuseum.com/k...-type-276.html


.


Also VW's 1950s Beetles, Buses & Ghias had the ability to tow Eriba Pucks & other small trailers.
















.



Our Puck's previous owner's `68 Bug, & our `88 Westy (factory tow rated per our owners manual at 2200 lbs braked & 220 lbs HW) are both more than capable Puck pullers:




.


> They even had a 5th Wheel for VWs!


.


> For the BMW X5/X6/X3/X2 folks here - even BMW got into Pucking around the countryside early on in the 1950s!



... and all of the 1950s-60s on BMWs have Euro/UK stule "Gooseneck" or "J-bar" Euro Style Factory/OEM - like my vintage trailer & BMW buddy Ben of the 2002AD resto shop has on his `71 2002tii "Pick-up" (he also has factory hitches on his other BMWs 1600, 2002, 2800/Bavaria, etc.) in order to tow his 1960s aluminum skinned German Dethleffs Tear-drop vintage kin in the background. Its factory hitch has been converted to 2" receiver by Ben, as he'll be helping me do with the BMW E30 factory/Westfalia Hitch that I just bought for my `85 325e E30 Coupe.




.


> And so did MBZ - as well as did Audi/Auto Union, Rover, etc. back in the 1920s-70s - although I've not yet found any other pix of these other vintage & classic Euro/UK cars towing trailers to date:




.


Eriba had designed their little lightweight 660 lb dry/empty TW Puck in conjunction with VW in the early 1950s to be towable with VW's 1000cc 25 HP cars, with production starting in 1955+/- - & eventually expanded up with larger models. The blue `58 Bug above is towing a slightly larger Familia/Pan as shown in the chart below.


.


Eriba's entire line are considered "Vintage Kin" on AirForums, since Pucks etc. are aluminum skinned on the sides (painted as are Argosy's, with top/roof & pop-top in GFRG fiberglass), and have a streamlined shape - albeit different from the "Silver Twinkies" - with their "Vee" front wall & window, rounded corners & top/pop-top, etc. (but no belly pans).


.


Furthermore, with AS having their own fiberglass bodied/roofed Eriba Puck/Familia clone called the Nest - it's impossible to make the case by any "Airstream police" that the Eribas aren't true "Vintage Kin" - as are now the vintage kin Scamps, Trilliums, etc. FG trailers.

https://www.airstream.com/blog/what-...bout-the-nest/


.


I'm not trying to be exhaustive in showing every Porsche & VW vehicle capable of towing - I wanted to show a few of the early ones. Unfortunately I've not yet come across any 1920-70s Audi nor Auto Union cars towing a trailer, so feel free to add some if anyone else has any good pix.


Aside from some interesting history - the take-aways here are:

1. That Cars & light vehicles in both the USA & Europe/UK have been towing travel trailers since the 1920s - including the smaller/narrower & lighter Airstreams in Europe & the UK etc.

2. That Airstream & other USA & Euro/UK Trailer/Caravan makers have historically, & continue to make great trailers in sizes & types for any size & capability car/truck/suv/cuv etc. In fact, the original 1930s non-aluminum Byum/Airstream built/kit trailer - as well as later 1950s-60s small & lightweight vintage AS Bubbles, Bambis & Cruisettes - are perfectly towable with old VWs & other small cars.

In fact that was Wally Byam's purpose from the start - NOT to require everybody to buy a bigger truck to tow his trailers, as with other trailer makers worldwide. Towed with CARS - NOT trucks!


> The 1936-37 Chrysler Airflight in the ad above didn't have much more than about 100 HP, and our vintage trailer buddy Chuck restored the same model Airstream & Chrysler that's in the RV museum today, so we know something about them from him.















https://ourautoexpert.com/silver-bul...-of-airstream/
.


3. Ergo, the current mantra that you need a big 'ole' full sized 'pick-em-up' truck or SUV is simply not true, and the USA, EU/UK & Asian smaller, mid-sized & large SUVs/CUVs/Trucks/etc. are just as capable for trailers withing their respective capabilities.

They are in fact only required for the truly large & heavy trailers, and otherwise is just overkill pushed by the manufacturers to sell higher profit margin trucks & SUVs/CUVs - which was why Ford dropped most cars in favor of SUVs/CUVs & Mustangs with here in the States.

4. Our Euro/UK SUVs are perfectly capable TVs - despite what some will say on here about "must use trucks" - and in fact many trucks/SUVs are LESS capable than a Cayenne/Q7/Touareg etc.

A not much talked about fact, is that the vaunted Ford F150 1/2 ton truck is only tow rated standard for 5000 lbs GTW trailers & 500 lbs HW - and you must "buy-up" for 2 higher tow option levels before the F150 even EQUALS the 155% higher 7716 lbs GTW & 770 lbs HW rating of the standard equipment Cayenne/Q7/Touareg SUVs - all you need is to order, buy with or add the respective factory hitch & the generic USA/Canada 7-pin electrical trailer hook-up!

It is just too bad that very few automakers make any lower & sleeker wagons & sedans anymore with USA tow options, as an alternative to taller SUVs & CUVs.

But Andy T & his CanAm RV has made a very successful career of fitting out non-truck TVs as safe & fully capable for many of the small to mid-sized Airstreams & other travel trailers for his customers - and he spreads his message on same in his RV Lifestyle magazine's "Hitch Hints" articles, etc.

Enjoy!
Tom
///////
__________________
Tom T
Orange CA
1960 Avion T20, #2 made, Hensley Cub, TV tbd- looking for 08-22 Cayenne S, EH, etc
1988 VW Vanagon Westfalia CamperGL (Orig Owner) + 1970 Eriba Puck
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Old 05-27-2021, 12:16 AM   #1339
2 Rivet Member
 
Santa Cruz , California
Join Date: Sep 2020
Posts: 77
Thanks for this last post!!! Love it… Sure makes me feel like I’m part of the larger amazing “family” with the AirStream and of course the Audi Q8 and Q5!

Not sure why the Audi Q8 thinks I’m towing all the time with my CURT Triflex (not my first choice for brake controller) showing me braking at 5.7 without being connected to my trailer. I found an Audi dealership who seems to have a service manager who tows and a foreman who supposedly is an expert with the towing and wiring side of things… —- as soon as I turn in the Audi it says I’m in tow mode when I should be and I went to the inky MMI screen I know to turn trailer suspension to off.

A bit frustrating but doesn’t appear to be impacting the actual car.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom_T View Post
The Porsche, VW & Audi TV story began long before the Cayenne, Q7/Q5 & Touareg/Tiguan that most of you use on this topic - or of which members are aware ....

FYI Porsche folks - long before the Cayenne was even a twinkle in Porsche engineers' eyes - this was Porsche's Original purpose designed Tow Vehicle, along with their other Tractor models:

https://patch.com/california/lagunan...-int3e35dd946d




.


However, their late-1940s to 1965 Porsche 356 various sub-models were also capable of towing Eriba Pucks & other small trailers:


.


Additionally, the German Army in 1939-45 WWII also used the Ferdinand Porsche designed VW Kubelwagon & Schwimmwagon "Jeeps" (rebooted in 1970s as "The Thing") also towed utility wagons - as the first V/A/P tow vehicle:

https://www.nevingtonwarmuseum.com/k...-type-276.html


.


Also VW's 1950s Beetles, Buses & Ghias had the ability to tow Eriba Pucks & other small trailers.
















.



Our Puck's previous owner's `68 Bug, & our `88 Westy (factory tow rated per our owners manual at 2200 lbs braked & 220 lbs HW) are both more than capable Puck pullers:




.


> They even had a 5th Wheel for VWs!


.


> For the BMW X5/X6/X3/X2 folks here - even BMW got into Pucking around the countryside early on in the 1950s!



... and all of the 1950s-60s on BMWs have Euro/UK stule "Gooseneck" or "J-bar" Euro Style Factory/OEM - like my vintage trailer & BMW buddy Ben of the 2002AD resto shop has on his `71 2002tii "Pick-up" (he also has factory hitches on his other BMWs 1600, 2002, 2800/Bavaria, etc.) in order to tow his 1960s aluminum skinned German Dethleffs Tear-drop vintage kin in the background. Its factory hitch has been converted to 2" receiver by Ben, as he'll be helping me do with the BMW E30 factory/Westfalia Hitch that I just bought for my `85 325e E30 Coupe.




.


> And so did MBZ - as well as did Audi/Auto Union, Rover, etc. back in the 1920s-70s - although I've not yet found any other pix of these other vintage & classic Euro/UK cars towing trailers to date:




.


Eriba had designed their little lightweight 660 lb dry/empty TW Puck in conjunction with VW in the early 1950s to be towable with VW's 1000cc 25 HP cars, with production starting in 1955+/- - & eventually expanded up with larger models. The blue `58 Bug above is towing a slightly larger Familia/Pan as shown in the chart below.


.


Eriba's entire line are considered "Vintage Kin" on AirForums, since Pucks etc. are aluminum skinned on the sides (painted as are Argosy's, with top/roof & pop-top in GFRG fiberglass), and have a streamlined shape - albeit different from the "Silver Twinkies" - with their "Vee" front wall & window, rounded corners & top/pop-top, etc. (but no belly pans).


.


Furthermore, with AS having their own fiberglass bodied/roofed Eriba Puck/Familia clone called the Nest - it's impossible to make the case by any "Airstream police" that the Eribas aren't true "Vintage Kin" - as are now the vintage kin Scamps, Trilliums, etc. FG trailers.

https://www.airstream.com/blog/what-...bout-the-nest/


.


I'm not trying to be exhaustive in showing every Porsche & VW vehicle capable of towing - I wanted to show a few of the early ones. Unfortunately I've not yet come across any 1920-70s Audi nor Auto Union cars towing a trailer, so feel free to add some if anyone else has any good pix.


Aside from some interesting history - the take-aways here are:

1. That Cars & light vehicles in both the USA & Europe/UK have been towing travel trailers since the 1920s - including the smaller/narrower & lighter Airstreams in Europe & the UK etc.

2. That Airstream & other USA & Euro/UK Trailer/Caravan makers have historically, & continue to make great trailers in sizes & types for any size & capability car/truck/suv/cuv etc. In fact, the original 1930s non-aluminum Byum/Airstream built/kit trailer - as well as later 1950s-60s small & lightweight vintage AS Bubbles, Bambis & Cruisettes - are perfectly towable with old VWs & other small cars.

In fact that was Wally Byam's purpose from the start - NOT to require everybody to buy a bigger truck to tow his trailers, as with other trailer makers worldwide. Towed with CARS - NOT trucks!


> The 1936-37 Chrysler Airflight in the ad above didn't have much more than about 100 HP, and our vintage trailer buddy Chuck restored the same model Airstream & Chrysler that's in the RV museum today, so we know something about them from him.















https://ourautoexpert.com/silver-bul...-of-airstream/
.


3. Ergo, the current mantra that you need a big 'ole' full sized 'pick-em-up' truck or SUV is simply not true, and the USA, EU/UK & Asian smaller, mid-sized & large SUVs/CUVs/Trucks/etc. are just as capable for trailers withing their respective capabilities.

They are in fact only required for the truly large & heavy trailers, and otherwise is just overkill pushed by the manufacturers to sell higher profit margin trucks & SUVs/CUVs - which was why Ford dropped most cars in favor of SUVs/CUVs & Mustangs with here in the States.

4. Our Euro/UK SUVs are perfectly capable TVs - despite what some will say on here about "must use trucks" - and in fact many trucks/SUVs are LESS capable than a Cayenne/Q7/Touareg etc.

A not much talked about fact, is that the vaunted Ford F150 1/2 ton truck is only tow rated standard for 5000 lbs GTW trailers & 500 lbs HW - and you must "buy-up" for 2 higher tow option levels before the F150 even EQUALS the 155% higher 7716 lbs GTW & 770 lbs HW rating of the standard equipment Cayenne/Q7/Touareg SUVs - all you need is to order, buy with or add the respective factory hitch & the generic USA/Canada 7-pin electrical trailer hook-up!

It is just too bad that very few automakers make any lower & sleeker wagons & sedans anymore with USA tow options, as an alternative to taller SUVs & CUVs.

But Andy T & his CanAm RV has made a very successful career of fitting out non-truck TVs as safe & fully capable for many of the small to mid-sized Airstreams & other travel trailers for his customers - and he spreads his message on same in his RV Lifestyle magazine's "Hitch Hints" articles, etc.

Enjoy!
Tom
///////
Imdakine1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2021, 09:06 AM   #1340
Tom T
 
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Vintage Kin Owner
Vintage Kin Owner
Orange , California
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 901
Quote:
Originally Posted by Imdakine1 View Post
Thanks for this last post!!! Love it… Sure makes me feel like I’m part of the larger amazing “family” with the AirStream and of course the Audi Q8 and Q5!

Not sure why the Audi Q8 thinks I’m towing all the time with my CURT Triflex (not my first choice for brake controller) showing me braking at 5.7 without being connected to my trailer. I found an Audi dealership who seems to have a service manager who tows and a foreman who supposedly is an expert with the towing and wiring side of things… —- as soon as I turn in the Audi it says I’m in tow mode when I should be and I went to the inky MMI screen I know to turn trailer suspension to off.

A bit frustrating but doesn’t appear to be impacting the actual car.
Thanx - just some fun facts & pix for a change on this Q&A fest of 67 pages.

It is impacting or affecting the Q8, because in tow mode the engine performance, trans shift points, braking, etc. are all set into tow mode, and turning it off may or may not change it all. If the AS dealer did the installation, then they may not know what to do/reset etc. on Audi or any other particular cars/SUVs.

As far as I've understood from techs & owners of the V/A/P triad's SUVs, tow mode should not be initiated until & unless you have the towbar/ball or stinger (for Hensley/ProPride) in the hitch receiver.

So get it to your dealer.

At the very least, in tow mode - or if it's not 100% off - you'll get lower mpg & run the drivetrain at a higher workload level "as if towing".

Good Luck!
Tom
///////
__________________
Tom T
Orange CA
1960 Avion T20, #2 made, Hensley Cub, TV tbd- looking for 08-22 Cayenne S, EH, etc
1988 VW Vanagon Westfalia CamperGL (Orig Owner) + 1970 Eriba Puck
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