Gas verses Diesel Tow Vehicle

[Hempel]

Has anyone pulled with the Nissan Titan XD with the Cummins?

[nryn]

@pteck—that’s awesome. Don’t think I’ve seen a pic of your rig in the wild until now.

I went truck not because I wanted one (I didn’t) but because adding up weights for my family and gear didn’t work in terms of payload/rear axle weight ratings for any other vehicle I could find. I have other legitimate uses for a truck on a farm and for woodworking, and it will see some duties on those fronts but will for the most part be a tow and explore vehicle, never a daily driver. I’ve only had the truck for a few months and while I’m not super fond of driving it around the city where I live (a period which has thankfully ended—I moved the truck to the farm last week), man it’s a great view (and ride) on the highway.

I went gas for all sorts of reasons. I’m not a performance vehicle guy—I could care less if someone gets to the top of the hill before I do. That particular “award” is not worth the premium for me in terms of cost or weight. But most of my reasons had to do with maintenance. And the fact that I don’t like the way diesel vehicles sound .

Anyway, really, folks—I have no religion about this. Drive what suits you and don’t be one of those people who tells everyone else they are doing it wrong if they aren’t doing it like you. That’s so not helpful.

[TouringDan]

Originally Posted by nryn

Anyway, really, folks—I have no religion about this. Drive what suits you and don’t be one of those people who tells everyone else they are doing it wrong if they aren’t doing it like you. That’s so not helpful.

I completely agree.

I also wanted to join this thread.

Dan

[gypsydad]

Well, I know you all know "your doing it wrong" if you don't tow your +25' AS's with a Ford F250 6.7L diesel, with 4x4 and FX4 package...but I ain't saying a word!
Merry Christmas!

[rowiebowie]

Originally Posted by gypsydad

Well, I know you all know "your doing it wrong" if you don't tow your +25' AS's with a Ford F250 6.7L diesel, with 4x4 and FX4 package...but I ain't saying a word!
Merry Christmas!

I see what you're doing there.

On another point, I enjoy reading this thread (even though I don't tow). I also know the two sides will never come together, but so long as it's civil, I find this discussion interesting to read.
.

[pteck]

Originally Posted by gypsydad

Well, I know you all know "your doing it wrong" if you don't tow your +25' AS's with a Ford F250 6.7L diesel, with 4x4 and FX4 package...but I ain't saying a word!
Merry Christmas!

Or maybe one day you'll be open minded enough that I may share what I'm getting more of (for me). All that excess towing superiority to tow an AS that is... 1" shorter than my 27FB.

Merry x'mas to you too.

[AirMiles]

Originally Posted by Hempel

Has anyone pulled with the Nissan Titan XD with the Cummins?

Yep, every mile as stated in my signature. My Son-in-law has the same truck with 60,000 miles of towing all around the country. So between us we have over 90,000 miles of experience with this truck. We both enjoy towing with this small diesel truck.

I had a 2010? F250 with a 6.0 powerstroke diesel. The Nissan pulls just like this truck. I had a 2012? F150 with an eco-boost. The Nissan rides as comfortably as this truck. Pulls like a 250 - rides like a 150 - that's why I bought this truck. Actually, the F150 twin-turbo pulls really well too . . . I just couldn't afford the gas that the twin-turbo pumped down the cylinders.

The Nissan is a good match for a 7000# tow-behind trailer. It goes up and down the mountains great with its old-fashioned 6 speed transmission and it does have a great "engine" brake that will hold speed going down the steep mountains just like an "real" exhaust brake. Double tap the brake while in tow-mode and it'll drop down a gear. Third gear will hold 45 mph down anything short of a ski-slope, second gear the same at 25 mph. Up hill, I can hold any speed and accelerate on demand. Fuel mileage is around 12 mpg pulling my 25' at interstate highway speed limits. I get a little better fuel mileage at just over 62 mph, the speed when it shifts into 6th gear. But the engine really does cruise better at 65 to 70 mph - lugs less and doesn't need to downshift like it does at 62 mph. It gets better fuel mileage in 6th gear at 68 mph than at 60 mph in 5th.

In my opinion, if you don't need 900# of torque to pull a 15,000# fifth-wheel a Nissan Titan XD Diesel is a good choice. But watch the PAYLOAD on this truck. I had a "Platinum" edition with only 1377# of payload. I traded it for an "SL" edition with 1653# of payload. I needed that extra 300# of payload!

[Hempel]

Thank you I was just researching for the future I did have the eco-boost it was a great puller but awful on fuel mileage thanks you for information.

[pteck]

Originally Posted by Hempel

Thank you I was just researching for the future I did have the eco-boost it was a great puller but awful on fuel mileage thanks you for information.

It might be worthwhile to note that some of these higher HP vehicles get a bad rap in MPG, partly because of the very fact that their power plants are elastic and capable of such high HP.

To make more power requires more fuel.

Like you mentioned, the Ford 3.5 EB has deep reserves of power. Making 400 HP (in the latest version) worth of scoot require lots of fuel. Yet it's wholly capable of great efficiency as proved by it's EPA rating of 18/25/21 mpg. Provided that one is judicious with the throttle. This is even more true under tow.

I'm just as guilty as any, as these modern motors make it easy to access the power and drive fast - costing efficiency.

As another hint as I've tuned vehicle ECU's to map fueling and timing. Motors are often more efficient running a higher gear with more rpm, than grunting out torque lugging a lower gear. There's breakpoints that depend on the actual motor. Running high torque loads (i.e. high combustion pressures) requires an enriched fuel mixture to help cool the combustion chamber. Vice lower load at high rpm that can run a more stoic/lean mixture that doesn't waste gas to cooling (at some increased windage losses). It's easy to drive torque with a turbo motor like the EB. But there's potentially opportunity for more efficiency by dropping down a gear to use some more rpm sometimes. And of course, maintaining a reasonable speed by keeping ones foot out of it.

[overlander64]

Greetings Hempel!

Originally Posted by Hempel

Has anyone pulled with the Nissan Titan XD with the Cummins?

Sadly, yes, I have had experience towing with a 2017 Nissan Titan XD Diesel. Had high hopes for the truck but they have been dashed. Fuel efficiency is deplorable -- my K2500 GMC Suburban with 454 cubic inch V8 did better in both solo and towing fuel economy and was still dependable after 20 years and nearly 200,000 miles. The two Nissan dealers that are within 40 miles of my home are indifferent toward their diesel trucks and have provided less than stellar support (I am accustomed to excellent support from my GM dealer of more than 30 years). The truck has yet to pass 6,000 miles as it needs to go to the dealer at least once every other week for one problem or another -- from three total losses of brakes, four partial loss of brakes, a built-in trailer brake controller that randomly locks up the trailer brakes, an engine that goes into "limp-home" mode for no known reason as well as heat and air conditioning systems that tend to develop a mind of their own -- and driver's side exterior handles that have failed as well as the interior driver's interior door handle. In additional to mechanical issues that truck had defective paint from the factory and a damaged bed liner at delivery.


We have only been able to tow about 500 miles with the truck at this point, and that was not a pleasant experience as the trailer brakes had to be disabled after the first 25 miles due to the controller's lockup problem. It seems that these trucks are either exceptionally good or exceptionally bad with little in-between.


I always try to be positive, but I can't find much to be positive about when it comes to this truck.


Kevin

[mefly2]

Originally Posted by DKB_SATX

I've no idea what configuration(s) of half-tons you may have tried, but I don't have any problem with the transmission "hunting" on my F150 Ecoboost w/ Max Tow. I lock out 9th and 10th because there's no fuel-economy benefit to those when towing, and the truck is very settled in 8th towing a 26U until we're on a fairly decent grade in the 67-68 mph range, then I'll tap down into 7th and hold speed until the crest, where it'll settle back down into 8th and settle back down to a relaxed 11 mpg and haul us on down the road. Of course it'll want a lower gear for real passes like Raton or Cochetopa but it doesn't "hunt" much.

Of course - that's why I said up front
Your
Mileage
May
Vary
...to each his or her own ... the F150 is a great truck ... but, we prefer our diesel 3/4 ...

[sbowman]

Originally Posted by pteck

At the risk of taking this thread on a tangent. At the risk offending the diesel truck dudes. At the risk of offending the PPP hitch religion. At the risk of troubling the low center of gravity movement. And at the risk offending long wheelbase to short rear overhang gospel...

As an example of how I'm doing it wrong without the best parameters of what makes a great tow vehicle...

I present my own setup, which I enjoy the heck out of, and wouldn't trade for anything else. There's more than one way to tow a trailer.

I like to boondock which is why it's lifted. When I get to site, I use my vehicle to take my family on off-road excursions to get off the beaten path and explore nature, backcountry, and photography. As mentioned, it tows to my personal satisfaction. Don't read this as I'm compromising in any way as it tows with authority and stability. You guys may judge that I don't have high expectations and don't know better. Quite the contrary as my other daily driver is a 4WD 700hp/650tq missile which I track. So I drive faster, and have higher expectations for performance and stability, than most.

This vehicle makes 383hp/403tq. Not the most. But a healthy amount for a 27' AS. I can always travel at speed on grade, and pass if I wish. I'm surrounded by large mountain ranges and been over many of them. Engine is sewing machine quiet and smooth, and certainly hauls the mail.

Hey pteck, do not worry about offending me, get in line. If one can not take the heat, get out of the kitchen. I had a tough Scottish Grandmother rest her soul. More power to open mined thinkers.



Be well, best regards, and safe travels

[Troutboy]

Love the discussion and the passion. I think there are plenty of options. Love how people equate overkill with safety.

There are plenty of combos and equipment that will provide reliable, safe towing.

I think payload is grossly under discussed and often. Overlooked.

I have a 23D. It’s fairly light. My stock Jeep Grand Cherokee towed it perfect, yes up hills higher RPM but it was fine. Payload was 1040 pounds or so. Not so good for family of 4 with 2 80 pound dogs.

I now tow with F150 ecooboost. Payload 1800 and it goes just fine up and down hills. I will likely look at a bigger truck next because of our desire to carry more toys. So for my situation I am payload driven, not towing capacity. Plenty of towing capacity out there, not so much when it comes to payload. Going up next size will add 500 pounds or more payload.

[pteck]

Originally Posted by sbowman

Hey pteck, do not worry about offending me, get in line. If one can not take the heat, get out of the kitchen. I had a tough Scottish Grandmother rest her soul. More power to open mined thinkers.

Be well, best regards, and safe travels

No worries sbowman. It was directed at others rather than yourself. I think we're on the same page and that we can openly share thoughts and POVs, as any discussion on merit and value should be. It's not personal after all and we're all correct in our opinions.

Where I try to set things straight are opinions stated as fact, especially if they do not agree with understood academic principles.

[mkcurtiss]

My advice is do not buy a diesel unless you really need a diesel......much more expensive, much higher maintenance, more expensive fuel, and the real biggie: the potential failure and or catastrophic failure......Repairs to diesel engines are very expensive...often times, if you have a catastrophic failure, the truck is not worth the cost of a new engine, and I am not talking about old beaters either...I am talking about nice trucks, that guys are making big payments on.....a replacement diesel engine in a late model truck, installed, can run $15,000.00 And the thing is, after you spend the 15,000, you are just back to ground zero, and getting book value for your truck.
I drive a Ford E-350 with a v-10. I can replace that engine for about 5,000. And the thing is, I can get 300,000 miles out of that v-10....YOu can get 300,000 out of a good diesel.....but even if the diesel lasted 600,000, it does not matter, because the rest of the truck will not. It does not matter if the diesel will last 68 million miles.....your truck will not, and you are not going to hit the road in a vehicle with that many miles on it anyway.....My v-10 gets 10.5 mpg empty, and 9.5 mpg pulling our 26' Airstream.....will climb anything at 50 mph, and never get above 2400 rpm.....I just do not see the need for a diesel and all the associated hassle of a diesel. Just my .02......ok, well that was probably .25, but anyway....

[TouringDan]

I have a 2008 Tundra 5.7L 2wd and I love this truck. It is just turning over 100,000 miles and only has been back to the dealer once for repairs/maintenance, new front brake pads at about 45,000 miles. Now having said this, I am going to install new Bilstein shock absorbers, replace the serpentine belt and change the transmission fluid in the interest of preventative maintenance. This will be my last truck as I am sure that I will never wear it out. It gets 19 mpg solo and 13 mpg towing our 66 Tradewind, 5,000 lbs loaded. I read reports that the Tundra is thirsty and that may be true if you don’t keep your foot out of it. After all, it is a very powerful truck. It has a 4.3 rear end which helps with the responsiveness, but yet with the 6 speed transmission it is only turning 1,600 rpm @ 60 mph. I typically don’t drive in the tow/haul mode unless in the mountains. I never have problems with the transmission hunting for the right gear.

I have learned, after reading this entire thread and watching the IKE GAUNTLET TRUCK TESTS, that my Tundra will do a great job towing our Tradewind up and down any of the roads out west. The Tundra has plenty of power going up the mountains, and I tend to downshift manually when descending the mountains. Our Tradewind also has disc brakes, so no braking concerns.

Our family has 4 vehicles with turbocharged gas motors which I really like. I suspect more and more TV motors in the future will be turbocharged gas with direct injection. As much as I love my Tundra, my only complaint is that it is huge and I would much prefer driving a smaller TV. My planned next TV will be a Porsche Cayenne S. The tow rating is about 7,000 lbs with a payload over 1,500 lbs, about the same payload as my Tundra. The 3.6L motor has plenty of low end grunt with 405 lb-ft of torque @ 1,350 rpm and 420 hp @ 6,000 rpm. I will go after a CPO 3 year old model to make it affordable.

As others have said drive whatever TV works best for you. There are lots of great TV’s that will get the job done.

Here is a photo of our towing rig.

Dan

[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by TouringDan

I have a 2008 Tundra 5.7L 2wd and I love this truck. It is just turning over 100,000 miles and only has been back to the dealer once for repairs/maintenance, new front brake pads at about 45,000 miles. Now having said this, I am going to install new Bilstein shock absorbers, replace the serpentine belt and change the transmission fluid in the interest of preventative maintenance. This will be my last truck as I am sure that I will never wear it out. It gets 19 mpg solo and 13 mpg towing our 66 Tradewind, 5,000 lbs loaded. I read reports that the Tundra is thirsty and that may be true if you don’t keep your foot out of it. After all, it is a very powerful truck. It has a 4.3 rear end which helps with the responsiveness, but yet with the 6 speed transmission it is only turning 1,600 rpm @ 60 mph. I typically don’t drive in the tow/haul mode unless in the mountains. I never have problems with the transmission hunting for the right gear.

I have learned, after reading this entire thread and watching the IKE GAUNTLET TRUCK TESTS, that my Tundra will do a great job towing our Tradewind up and down any of the roads out west. The Tundra has plenty of power going up the mountains, and I tend to downshift manually when descending the mountains. Our Tradewind also has disc brakes, so no braking concerns.

Our family has 4 vehicles with turbocharged gas motors which I really like. I suspect more and more TV motors in the future will be turbocharged gas with direct injection. As much as I love my Tundra, my only complaint is that it is huge and I would much prefer driving a smaller TV. My planned next TV will be a Porsche Cayenne S. The tow rating is about 7,000 lbs with a payload over 1,500 lbs, about the same payload as my Tundra. The 3.6L motor has plenty of low end grunt with 405 lb-ft of torque @ 1,350 rpm and 420 hp @ 6,000 rpm. I will go after a CPO 3 year old model to make it affordable.

others have said drive whatever TV works best for you. There are lots of great TV’s that will get the job done.

Here is a photo of our towing rig.

DanAttachment 329618

Hey! Did you notice there's a boat on your roof!

[Anders79]

I think bottom line - if you have the money, then a diesel is great (especially 1st going down large long inclines using the diesel brake; and then up hill with the torque). But if money is a concern, then there are plenty of gas TVs that tow just fine. We had to buy our truck before we had settled on what type of trailer we would be getting; so in that case, decided to buy a truck that could tow anything. Ended up spending more than i needed; but I have to admit, i love the sound and feel of my Diesel.

[pteck]

Originally Posted by Anders79

I think bottom line - if you have the money, then a diesel is great (especially 1st going down large long inclines using the diesel brake; and then up hill with the torque). But if money is a concern, then there are plenty of gas TVs that tow just fine. We had to buy our truck before we had settled on what type of trailer we would be getting; so in that case, decided to buy a truck that could tow anything. Ended up spending more than i needed; but I have to admit, i love the sound and feel of my Diesel.

No.

This is not a class/money thing. Sure some diesels are expensive. So are some gassers.

Having money to afford what you want is a great thing and I believe that is more your point.

Some people in the interest of saving gas to save money will opt for the diesel. There's numerous other trades here and it's not just about being able to purchase a diesel.

I can afford any of these. My vehicle is more expensive than any diesel 3/4-ton and 1-ton. You won't find me opting for the diesel, because I value other traits.

[mojo]

You say potato, I say tomato...
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...04C4&FORM=VIRE