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Old 04-04-2018, 09:07 AM   #321
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Originally Posted by GettinAway View Post
I get 17-18 mpg with my Tundra 10-12 towing. Maybe you were comparing mpg of towing Tundra vs non-towing Ford? Iím not giving up the reliability for a couple of miles per gallon. But this is a gas v diesel debate. Very enjoyable by the way. I really think if I had a bigger trailer, and I full timed in it traveling all over the country, Iíd have a diesel.


Not sure what year you have or model but right off Toyota web site for a 2018 4x4 limited or platinum it states gas mileage as 13/14/17. City, mix, Highway.

That is really low compared to the newer engines and drive trains of ford, dodge, Chevy or GMC. I get 22 non towing mostly highway.

I did research and talked to many people and had a preference for the Toyota as we have liked that brand and had good cars and suvs. Still have a 2005 4Runner that runs incredible.

Toyota even acknowledges they are behind and are working to catch up.

When you drive 90 miles round trip gas mileage matters.
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Old 04-05-2018, 05:06 AM   #322
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Mine is a 2012. It may get worse in city driving. I average close to 17, but do better on the highway. It’s not a daily driver, so mpg wasn’t a huge factor for me. I’m going to keep it a long time, we still ave our 04 Landcruiser. So, reliability means a bit more to me.
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Old 04-05-2018, 10:01 PM   #323
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My mileage has stayed pretty consistent on my '15 Ram 3500 CTD (with 6 speed stick). I get around 14 mpg running from Mississippi to Upstate New York, and 14.5 for the reverse trip (downhill?). My GCVW per CAT scale is always around 17,000 lbs; and I set the cruise at 65 mph, which is 1600 rpm in 6th gear. I also have the engine brake set on "auto" so that the cruise climbs the uphill grades going through the Appalachians effortlessly, and the engine brake holds it right at 65 going down the downhill grades - never have to use truck/trailer brakes. Another diesel "plus"!
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Old 04-06-2018, 09:55 AM   #324
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I can only speak on our 2016 RAM 3500 6.7 Cummins 4x4 w/68RFE transmission regarding how the exhaust brake, tow mode programing works together. Push the button for "Haul" mode, the exhaust brake is enabled and the transmission will downshift its self or hold the gear or up shift and exhaust brake opens when you take your foot of the fuel pedal reducing speed. Tap the brakes will further reduce speed by exhaust brake and downshifting on its own (speed related). If you want you can manually choose which gear to use by means of + or - button on the shift selector. All I can say is, this set up works w/little effort and best control of towing in anything we have ever had.

I have driven GM,s w/the Allison transmissions designed for towing/hauling modes, however not the most current. I was impressed w/the Allison, pretty much bullet proof. Note only gas vehicle not diesel.

I can only presume all current TV makes will do or do pretty much the same as our RAM. I am thinking 1 tons being designed more for HD towing most likely are the sweet spot for some due to their over all weight. Our RAM weighs 8800 lbs. This is not to say 3/4 tons are less in what they do. We have always had 3/4 tons, this our 1st 1 ton. Price between 3/4 and 1 ton was pennies. Used TV's 5 years old and newer were w/in 5k of new (diesel). Yes the 1 ton ride can be stiffer, however I would think any TV w/tow package will be firmer, 1/2 ton being the "smoothest"? We slow down and way down when approaching a speed bump unless you are into air time. I am thinking any truck no matter tonnage requires awareness of road conditions one is driving on.

Living in the Pacific Northwest we tow mostly through mountains. We do some flat towing. Running free we have gotten 22+ mpg. Towing between 11 and 17 mpg.

Best regards and safe travels..........
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Old 12-10-2018, 07:07 PM   #325
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Just a note, the brakes on the gas F350 and the diesel F350 are identical. Engine braking of a diesel is more effective due to higher compression but also wears engine components. It's back pressure, and the energy comes off in the form of heat.

As far as torque goes, the final drive ratio is different between the two power plants to make up for the different engine speeds. Torque is a force measurement at the crankshaft and is multiplied through the gears. The power at the rear wheels is what matters. Not trying to argue but a lot of folks don't understand that torque and power are different units. I think the Powerstroke wins the horsepower war at 460 hp. The Ram hemi has more power than the Cummins however. The Chevy 6 liter is over 400 as well. Any of these will pull any Airstream just fine.

The amount of sound deadening material on some of the new trucks is amazing. Pull the sound deadening sheets off and they are still LOUD.
Ram hemi has more power than the cummins? I know it doesnít...you need to drive them
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Old 12-10-2018, 08:17 PM   #326
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...towed (and voted with our checkbook) with both 1/2 T gas (Ford and GM)and 3/4 T diesel (Ram and GM); all I can say is that we arrive much more rested with the diesel TV (and feel safer while doing so).

The 1/2T could not decide which gear to use on even slight inclines ... always "hunting" for the best gear.

YMMV,

...but we still have the diesel TV (used mostly for towing the AS and NOT around town much) and would suggest the best plan would be to find a dealer that will let you hook up your trailer to each possible TV and test them on the same route ... on the same day.
Then, you and your budget (operating costs are more for the diesel) decide.
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Old 12-10-2018, 09:47 PM   #327
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...towed (and voted with our checkbook) with both 1/2 T gas (Ford and GM)and 3/4 T diesel (Ram and GM); all I can say is that we arrive much more rested with the diesel TV (and feel safer while doing so).

The 1/2T could not decide which gear to use on even slight inclines ... always "hunting" for the best gear.

YMMV,

...but we still have the diesel TV (used mostly for towing the AS and NOT around town much) and would suggest the best plan would be to find a dealer that will let you hook up your trailer to each possible TV and test them on the same route ... on the same day.
Then, you and your budget (operating costs are more for the diesel) decide.
I've no idea what configuration(s) of half-tons you may have tried, but I don't have any problem with the transmission "hunting" on my F150 Ecoboost w/ Max Tow. I lock out 9th and 10th because there's no fuel-economy benefit to those when towing, and the truck is very settled in 8th towing a 26U until we're on a fairly decent grade in the 67-68 mph range, then I'll tap down into 7th and hold speed until the crest, where it'll settle back down into 8th and settle back down to a relaxed 11 mpg and haul us on down the road. Of course it'll want a lower gear for real passes like Raton or Cochetopa but it doesn't "hunt" much.
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Old 12-11-2018, 12:46 AM   #328
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Ram hemi has more power than the cummins? I know it doesnít...you need to drive them
Yes, higher horsepower than the Cummins, by quite a bit. I did recently drive both. And I DID choose the diesel for the better towing feel and authority. I know Iím gonna pay more for maintenance and fuel but what a nice truck! Doesnít take much to add that extra horsepower if I ever want it but for now...Iím good.
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Old 12-11-2018, 05:08 AM   #329
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Yes, higher horsepower than the Cummins, by quite a bit. I did recently drive both. And I DID choose the diesel for the better towing feel and authority. I know Iím gonna pay more for maintenance and fuel but what a nice truck! Doesnít take much to add that extra horsepower if I ever want it but for now...Iím good.
Put a load on them....then try it....my 13 31í Classic has 7900 on the axles and 1050 tongue weight...my ram is at 9000 lbs...you drove both....empty...
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Old 12-11-2018, 05:12 AM   #330
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I bet no one has ever asked this question!
I am a complete "newby" planning to purchase a used 25-28 foot Airstream.
My wife and I plan to take off a year from now and spend at least a year touring the USA, staying in National Parks and seeing all that we can.
I will definately go to the Rocky Mountains and want to be sure we have a reliable vehicle that will slow us down on the steep declines. We also plan to live full time in our Airstream for at least a year and hope we can keep going for many more years.
MY QUESTION:
DIESEL OR GAS?
I have looked at a 2018 Chevy Silverado 2500HD 4X4 with a Vortek 6.0L V-8 with a 6 speed Automatic Heavy duty transmisson THAT IS NOT A DIESEL, and a GMC 2016 Sierra2500 Crew Cab 4WD that is a Diesel.
The dealerships are telling me that the new high displacement gas engines are just as good as the diesel, and that they can handle even a 8,000 pound 28 foot Airstream easily. Two different salesmen at the dealerships say I am overdoing it with the GMC Diesel, and that the large gas engine can handle up to 14,000 Pounds. Any advice would be much appreciated!
Thanks in advance for your sage advice!!!
..... hitch up a trailer and you try them loaded..not empty...you decide...the gas engine is not large.. the quit the 454 and 8 liter....go with the diesel you will never look back...
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Old 12-11-2018, 07:37 AM   #331
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..... hitch up a trailer and you try them loaded..not empty...you decide...the gas engine is not large.. the quit the 454 and 8 liter....go with the diesel you will never look back...


Owned both and for any AS over 28 feet the diesel wins hands down. Added cost? Maybe a bit but what you get in return is a safer more comfortable ride. What is your overall safety worth?
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Old 12-11-2018, 08:07 AM   #332
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I went through this same exercise when we moved from a 28 foot International to our present 31 foot Classic. I towed the 28 with a 2016 Ram 1500 5.7 Hemi and was quite happy with the truck. When I posted a similar question to yours on the Classic forum there were a lot of opinions and all had a lot of merit plus some good technical information. The answer became obvious when I examined the Payload of a half ton vs. a 2500. After adding for the Leer topper, generator, extras fuel and camping gear I was pushing the upper limit with the half ton. My Ram dealer had a 2016 2500 Laramie with the 6.7i turbo diesel and I traded the 1500. So happy with the larger truck and the diesel. We recently camped at BlackRock Mountain State Park, GA which has a very steep road to the top with a lot of switchbacks. The exhaust brake combined with Granny gear worked so well I hardly had to touch the brakes on the way back down. Do I like the high price of diesel, or DEF...no, but the safety and comfort aspects far offset any additional costs. The Cummins 6.7i has 900 pounds of torque whereas the 5.7 Hemi was 410. When the turbo kicks in that diesel will knock you back into the seat.
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Old 12-11-2018, 10:00 AM   #333
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Ram hemi has more power than the cummins? I know it doesnít...you need to drive them
No question that the cummins tows better subjectively.

There's a difference here between subjective feel that includes power delivery, gearing, etc. Versus objective data. In a running start, the unit with more power (HP) will tow up the hill faster. Regardless of again, "feels".
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Old 12-11-2018, 10:11 AM   #334
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I find it funny that people equate performance with top dog diesels. Yes, these pinnacle diesel motors are incredible. They put up stupendous numbers. 400+hp, 900+tq. And are setup and geared for tremendous loads. No wonder they perform. No question.

Yet, a gasser with 400+ hp will easily do the deed too. With the right gearing and setup, it can and will haul the mail too. Sometimes with even better power to weight. Sometimes with more fuel efficiency as they are lighter, but generally less fuel efficiency under load. If it puts up the numbers, it can do the deed. Even an EV.

For every pinnacle diesel, there are tepid diesels. Some very tepid. Both gas and diesels. So it's not simply gas vs diesel. It's particular motors and configuration.
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Old 12-11-2018, 12:31 PM   #335
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Put a load on them....then try it....my 13 31í Classic has 7900 on the axles and 1050 tongue weight...my ram is at 9000 lbs...you drove both....empty...
The diesel tows my 27í very well, thank you. Thereís nothing quite like that Cummins no matter what the specs say. Thatís why I bought it 😎
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Old 12-11-2018, 02:57 PM   #336
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I find it funny that people equate performance with top dog diesels. Yes, these pinnacle diesel motors are incredible. They put up stupendous numbers. 400+hp, 900+tq. And are setup and geared for tremendous loads. No wonder they perform. No question.

Yet, a gasser with 400+ hp will easily do the deed too. With the right gearing and setup, it can and will haul the mail too. Sometimes with even better power to weight. Sometimes with more fuel efficiency as they are lighter, but generally less fuel efficiency under load. If it puts up the numbers, it can do the deed. Even an EV.

For every pinnacle diesel, there are tepid diesels. Some very tepid. Both gas and diesels. So it's not simply gas vs diesel. It's particular motors and configuration.

Hello pteck, thank you.


On another note, in your signature you indicate 3" lift AS or TV and why and reason for? 33" tires I presume on you TV why and what for?


Best regards and safe travels
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Old 12-11-2018, 03:19 PM   #337
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No question that the cummins tows better subjectively.

There's a difference here between subjective feel that includes power delivery, gearing, etc. Versus objective data. In a running start, the unit with more power (HP) will tow up the hill faster. Regardless of again, "feels".

Running start of what speed and how far prior to toe of grade or running start at toe of grade? What grade % and how many miles at grade? Will the gas vehicle be of same gross weight as diesel vehicle? Will both vehicles be towing equal weight? Presume the upper end engines?



Best regards and safe travels
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Old 12-11-2018, 04:47 PM   #338
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Running start of what speed and how far prior to toe of grade or running start at toe of grade? What grade % and how many miles at grade? Will the gas vehicle be of same gross weight as diesel vehicle? Will both vehicles be towing equal weight? Presume the upper end engines?

Best regards and safe travels
I don't know the two vehicles and engines in question, and their rated output other than someone said the gasser hemi made more HP. If we assume they tow the same trailer, say 8000lbs. They start at freeway speeds which decreases gearing differences. Grade doesn't even really matter as HP is what tells us how much power there is to either pass on a two lane highway or pull weight up a hill, when measured against time

This question becomes academic from this point. It distills down to HP to total rig weight (vehicle and trailer). The concept doesn't care that one is diesel or gas. It's the specified output power of the powerplant at full stink. Versus the weight of the mail it has to haul.

The setup that has more HP to weight will win. Where gas vs diesel does matter is that a gasser may weigh easily over 1000lb less. Combine the fact it makes more HP, and it'll absolutely win without a doubt. Sure the gasser will use some rpm. Sure it'll makes some more noise. And surely it may consume more fuel. Just as sure, engineering tells us this as fact, because the very definition of HP is how performant an engine will be to perform work over time.
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Old 12-11-2018, 05:14 PM   #339
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Hello pteck, thank you.


On another note, in your signature you indicate 3" lift AS or TV and why and reason for? 33" tires I presume on you TV why and what for?


Best regards and safe travels

At the risk of taking this thread on a tangent. At the risk offending the diesel truck dudes. At the risk of offending the PPP hitch religion. At the risk of troubling the low center of gravity movement. And at the risk offending long wheelbase to short rear overhang gospel...

As an example of how I'm doing it wrong without the best parameters of what makes a great tow vehicle...

I present my own setup, which I enjoy the heck out of, and wouldn't trade for anything else. There's more than one way to tow a trailer.

I like to boondock which is why it's lifted. When I get to site, I use my vehicle to take my family on off-road excursions to get off the beaten path and explore nature, backcountry, and photography. As mentioned, it tows to my personal satisfaction. Don't read this as I'm compromising in any way as it tows with authority and stability. You guys may judge that I don't have high expectations and don't know better. Quite the contrary as my other daily driver is a 4WD 700hp/650tq missile which I track. So I drive faster, and have higher expectations for performance and stability, than most.

This vehicle makes 383hp/403tq. Not the most. But a healthy amount for a 27' AS. I can always travel at speed on grade, and pass if I wish. I'm surrounded by large mountain ranges and been over many of them. Engine is sewing machine quiet and smooth, and certainly hauls the mail.
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Old 12-11-2018, 05:52 PM   #340
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2009 Chevy 2500HD 6.0l gas with 3.73 tows our 27FB very well. Wish it had 4.10 gears and a bigger gas tank is my only wish. Wouldn't go diesel for all the tea in China with a trailer that size or weight. I'll look into a diesel when I win the powerball jackpot. Happy trails
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