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Old 04-03-2011, 06:49 PM   #621
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No time to hold horses here because via the "New Constitution" the WBCCI "Bylaws" are still controlled by the IBT unless you, Howie or anyone else on the committee can prove me wrong. If you can, PLEASE DO. I want to be wrong about it.
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Old 04-03-2011, 07:06 PM   #622
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Bill,

There appears to be a "word game" being played here. I was asked by a committee member if:

"Paul did you get a copy of the new Bylaws from the Revision committee?"

To most, the above statement would mean that "they were sent out and did I get my copy?"

But that's not what it said. It asked if I got it, knowing full well that I did not, but to give the impression that I did not know what I was talking about because I'd not seen it.

It's all a bunch of word games with some people.
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Old 04-03-2011, 07:11 PM   #623
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Originally Posted by RickDavis View Post
Does this mean new bylaws have been written? If not who is going to do this?
Using the terms constitution and bylaws somewhat interchangeably is getting confusing.
They are written in draft form, they have not been disclosed to anyone I mean anyone!

Our work is not overseen by anyone.

Your correct it is confusing with the terms, in part my fault.

When working on this project I studied Roberts Rules, aka RONR, they use the term Bylaws to include a constitution and bylaws, and I have referred to them that way.

The club uses the term bylaws to mean bylaws w/o the constitution.

I'll try and use the terms individually going forward.

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If the rewrite is by the same committee is there any guarantee that the committee will exist after the next IP change?
yes we will according to our mandate.



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Old 04-03-2011, 07:35 PM   #624
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They are written in draft form, they have not been disclosed to anyone I mean anyone!

Our work is not overseen by anyone.

Your correct it is confusing with the terms, in part my fault.

When working on this project I studied Roberts Rules, aka RONR, they use the term Bylaws to include a constitution and bylaws, and I have referred to them that way.

The club uses the term bylaws to mean bylaws w/o the constitution.

I'll try and use the terms individually going forward.



yes we will according to our mandate.



.
If the new constitution is to pass it must be voted on by the current delegate system.

Once this is passed presumably the delegates are now unemployed.
Is it safe to say that the membership would then vote on the bylaw package at some later date?
or would this be an IBT thing?
Would each section be voted on individually or would it be one vote for all of it?
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Old 04-03-2011, 07:44 PM   #625
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The new constitution would be in place after Bylaws and Proviso's are approved by the IBT. The Proviso's are the transition.

The revision sent to the units will be discussed and "perfected" one Article at a time. Simple majority is required for each change to the proposed revision.

Once "perfected", the whole revision is voted with 2/3 required to approve. If approved, the committee and IBT will be busy developing and approving Proviso's and Bylaws. No unit or member participation is required, unless the revision is modified during the delegate meeting to require member approval of the Bylaws.
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Old 04-04-2011, 06:01 AM   #626
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WBCCI Proposed Constitutional Revision Link On WDCU Site

The documents sent out the the unit presidents this past week regarding the proposed WBCCI constitutional revision have been uploaded to the WDCU website for those who would care to view or download them.

WDCU - Washington D.C. Unit (#170)
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Old 04-04-2011, 06:19 AM   #627
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Thanks, just one point please state that they are a true copy so everyone can rely upon them.
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Old 04-04-2011, 06:24 AM   #628
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I'll make the comment on the website.

Thanks
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Old 04-04-2011, 06:28 AM   #629
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Thank you Tom,
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Old 04-04-2011, 09:20 AM   #630
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Again, members have been getting personal contrary to moderator involvement and advice in this thread on March 26th:

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Once again members are reminded that you are guests here at AIR and, if you choose to post, those posts must be in accordance with our prescribed rules; the same rules that you agreed to when you joined. Do not attack another member and do not post in coercive ways or in anger. Do not makes threats. If you have an issue with a specific member take it elsewhere or use the report post button but DO NOT use AIR as your personal venue to denigrate others.
Some posts from yesterday have been removed. They are in violation of our 'Be Nice' Community Rule. Several members have received disciplinary warnings. Continued sparring after this warning could impact participation and convenience for involved individuals. Please be civil. And direct any questions on this via PM to the moderator staff -- those do not belong in public threads.
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Old 04-04-2011, 09:38 AM   #631
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HQ now has the complete official revision posted
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Old 04-04-2011, 09:39 AM   #632
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If the constitution passes does this mean the person currently in line for 3VP gets a layoff slip?
Actually Will the new officers be elected prior to the vote on the other issues?
Need a couple rainy days to read all this stuff
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Old 04-04-2011, 12:32 PM   #633
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Tom, Kerry and myself have decided to no longer answer questions here due to the destructive nature of certain users herein.

We have asked Andy & Bob(Canoe) to allow us to post a link

We are awaiting their permission, we can then discuss this in a civil manner.

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Old 04-04-2011, 12:56 PM   #634
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Bob, Tom and Kerry,

That sounds like a great idea.

Would it be to much to ask where will this new location be and who the moderator's?

Inquiring minds would like to know?
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Old 04-04-2011, 01:03 PM   #635
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After I posted about my question being ignored, I received two PMs one of which stated that either my questions were premature or the sender did not have the answers. This member also stated that after the documents were posted on the WBCCI site the questions could be presented to the revision committee. However, I do not see a way to address questions to the committee on the WBCCI site regarding the revised constitution.

How can I send my questions to the revision committee?

Bill
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Old 04-04-2011, 01:06 PM   #636
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Shouldn't article XV, section 1 say "and" and not "or" so that both the IBT and delegates are required to approve changes in the ByLaws and Policies?

Bill

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I believe that during the Delegates Meeting Seminar and Meeting alternative proposals can be discussed, brought forward, and enacted. This is an amendment of Article XVI. Here is one that absolutely empowers the membership. Passage of this proposed amendment will give members and their units immediate access to not only the Constitution and Bylaws, but also any and all Policy documents:

Proposed WBCCI Constitutional Amendment

I move to amend the Constitution to allow Members through their Delegates or Units to adopt Bylaws and Policy.

This amendment will require rewording in the four sections of the Constitution as shown below. Each section of the Constitution follows with the simple amendment and insertions underlined in bold (nothing is deleted).

1. Constitution Article XV By Laws and Policy, Section 1
By Laws and Policy not inconsistent with this Constitution embodying additional provisions for government of the Wally Byam Caravan Club International, Inc. may be adopted by the Board of Trustees or by the chartered units of the club.
2. Constitution Article XVI Amendments, Section 1
Proposed amendments to this Constitution or Bylaws and Policy may be submitted to Headquarters in writing by any chartered Unit of the club. Any such amendment(s) shall bear a certification by the Unit President that it has been approved by a majority vote conducted in accordance with the Unit's Constitution and Bylaws. The proposed amendment(s) shall also bear a certification by the President of the Region of which the originating Unit is a part, that the amendment has likewise been approved by a majority of the Units within that Region. Upon receipt of the proposed amendment(s) bearing the required certifications, Headquarters shall distribute copies to the Presidents of all other chartered units for ratification or rejection. When two thirds of the club's chartered Units have ratified the proposed amendment(s) by majority votes according to their Constitution and Bylaws and the Unit Presidents have so certified to Headquarters, such amendment(s) shall be deemed to be adopted. If two-thirds of the Club's Units do not ratify the proposed amendment(s) within one year following the distribution to the Unit
Presidents, the proposed amendment(s) shall be deemed to have been rejected and to be of no further effect.
3. Constitution Article XVI Amendments, Section 2
Amendments to this Constitution or Bylaws and Policy may also be adopted by a two-thirds vote of the members represented by Delegates present and voting at the annual Delegates Meeting voting in accordance with Article XII of the Constitution. Such proposed amendment(s) may be submitted in writing by any chartered unit, by the Board of Trustees and by the International President. Any such amendment(s) submitted by a Unit shall bear a certification by the Unit President that it has been approved by a majority vote conducted in accordance with the Unit's Constitution and Bylaws. The proposed amendment(s) shall also bear a certification by the President of the Region of which the originating unit is a part, that the amendment has also been approved by a majority of the members of the Region Board of such region. Such proposed amendment(s) shall arrive at Headquarters by March 1. Headquarters shall distribute copies to the Presidents of all chartered Units by April 1 (90 days prior to the Delegates Meeting to which such proposed amendment(s) are to be presented, in order to give the units ample time to vote and instruct their Delegates.
4. Constitution Article XVI Amendments, Section 3
A copy of any proposal to amend the Constitution or Bylaws and Policy pursuant to the provisions of this article shall be submitted by Headquarters to the Constitution and By Laws Committee prior to being submitted to the Unit Presidents. The Constitution and Bylaws Committee shall provide Headquarters with a written report containing its recommendations(s) regarding the proposed amendment(s) by March 20. Headquarters shall submit copies of this Constitution and By Laws Committee report to the Unit Presidents with the copies of the proposed amendment(s) distributed in accordance with Sections 1 and 2 of this article.

One small amendment, just a few simple words added to the CURRENT CONSTITUTION and now the membership can steer the club in any direction it sees fit, with a 2/3rds majority... See how easy it is to revise the current constitution bringing MAJOR value added benefits to the membership?

Does this help the membership curb supercilious spending, including the annual Grand North American Tour? You bet it does...

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Old 04-04-2011, 01:18 PM   #637
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Leo,

The first paragraph states that changes may be adopted, to me that means incorporated into the bylaws. If "or" is used, what happens if the IBT adopts something and the delegates adopt something in conflict, what rules? If adopt was changed to present, or some similar word, then this possible conflict would not exist.

Not trying to be picky, just clear.

Bill

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Bill,

I believe the OR differentiates the two different sources and approaches from which the changes could be made. Either way it is a very small difference that does not affect the end result. Have it your way...

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Old 04-04-2011, 01:25 PM   #638
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Leo,

That solves the potential conflict, in my mind anyway.

Bill

Quote:
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Bill,

I had revised my statement -- I think we crossed posts... Please see above again...

(revising here) Member adjustments should overrule IBT adjustments in all instances. It's the membership's club...

Leo
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Old 04-04-2011, 01:57 PM   #639
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Quote:
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After I posted about my question being ignored, I received two PMs one of which stated that either my questions were premature or the sender did not have the answers. This member also stated that after the documents were posted on the WBCCI site the questions could be presented to the revision committee. However, I do not see a way to address questions to the committee on the WBCCI site regarding the revised constitution.

How can I send my questions to the revision committee?

Bill
It was supposed to be posted, wbccirevision@gmail.com
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Old 04-04-2011, 03:06 PM   #640
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The complete package that went to the delegates is now on the WBCCI site and can be reached here

http://www.wbcci.org/documents/Deleg...3-30-20111.pdf

For the same material in a somewhat easier format to read it can be read here

WDCU - Washington D.C. Unit (#170)

An open Forum for discussion of the Revised Constitution can be reached here.

Revision
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