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Old 04-26-2011, 09:43 AM   #741
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Zigidachs I have had the same experience in life. I know how to organize and run an organization and have done it many times, but nowadays when you try to get someone else to step up to the plate they have excuse after excuse. I also have some as well.

My Wife and I recently set up a Shoreland Owners Group at the request of several neighbors, and after three years serving as chairman I wanted to pass it along to someone younger. Well, I finally found one and got him elected to the job, but since then, he has not held a single meeting in two years. Typical.

Members, (actually just a minority), complain bitterly about the Officers and what reimbursement they might recieve, but keep this in mind, they are WILLING to do the job. Not many others are willing to take the time.

This all kind of reminds me of the French Revolution.

Now for the Mods, I write this in the kindest and friendliest manner. No personal attacks on individuals of any kind. If you choose to remove this posting and chastise me again, so be it.
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Old 04-26-2011, 12:15 PM   #742
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I have a question. Is there anyone out there that would be willing to do the jobs that so called paid elite do---for nothing---nada---zilch. If not then most of the disageements here are mute. jim
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Old 04-26-2011, 12:19 PM   #743
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Maybe post 130 should be elsewhere, but surely someone out there in disagreement should be willing to do the job for nothing. jim
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Old 04-26-2011, 01:18 PM   #744
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what is it exactly that "the paid elite" do? i'm curious because i'm getting ready to join a unit that costs a dollar. the other 65 goes to???? what? i would like to know exactly what it is i'm paying for? i don't mind paying for something if it seems worthwhile to me. but all i'm able to gather here is a bunch of pissing and moaning and way too many rules and regulations on the national level. right now i think that 65 dollars should stay with the unit i'm joining and national should get a dollar. so again i will ask: what is that money paying for!?!?

thank you jer
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Old 04-26-2011, 02:47 PM   #745
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$160,000 goes to pay the girls at Jackson Center.($26/member) $36,000 goes to pay club liability insurance ( protects the club officers and club from accidents at events) ($6/member) $50,000 goes to pay national and regional officer travel expenses ($8.33/member). You can download the financial statement from WBCCI.org
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Old 04-26-2011, 04:23 PM   #746
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Please stop referring to the employees at Jackson Center as TheGirls. This is sexist in my opinion. You probably wouldn't want to be called TheBoys on the forum. jim
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Old 04-26-2011, 04:41 PM   #747
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thank you dwightdi. ,i tried to see the financial statement but i couldn't find it on the website. so what i see as the problems here is that the biggest portion of membership dues goes to pay the girls and the officers. i don't know how many of them there are, or what they do exactly, or what they get paid. but my 2 cents worth if you want to fix this club you may want to take a real hard look at that.
the other big todo i see everybody screaming about is the changes to the constitution. which i was able to see on the website. i read some of it but got bored and left it. now zigi mentioned earlier that societal changes is a big reason why membership is down. i would have to agree with that. but i also suspect that another big reason is the one that i am struggling with. all this fussin' and fightin' over changing some words to a constitution for a CAMPING CLUB! just seems completely ridiculous. i would think this thing would be all about airstream owners getting together, to use thier airstreams together PERIOD! instead this all reads like the minutes of some HOA with too much time on thier hands. i think the reason for joining an airstream club would be for people to escape from that kind of thing.
so i look at these two things and i say why the hell would i want to condone this type of thing by giving them money!?!?
i'm joining my local club and giving them my dollar but it's a damn bitter pill to swallow knowing the other 65 bucks is going to the wbcci
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Old 04-26-2011, 04:57 PM   #748
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Do you think an organization this size can operate without an office staff (NOT girls).


But we can fire them if you wish, are going to volunteer along with three others to do their work?

The question you could have asked is what their responsibilities are.
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Old 04-26-2011, 05:16 PM   #749
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One of the things that is good about the WBCCI is the courteous and efficient office staff in Jackson Center. That is the one area where probably no cuts need be made
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Old 04-26-2011, 07:06 PM   #750
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Cojer - the $1 does not begin to cover the actual costs of this camping experience - I agree its just a %$#@$# trailer club - but along with HOA's IRS FBI CIA etc people are involved and human nature tends to make things a bit complicated.... IE insurance - I would NEVER sponsor a rally without some sort of insurance protection - then when we put on a rally, it gets published all over the US in a magazine - the mag costs money to produce and distribute - then there is the WBBCI book that comes out each year and then someone has to run the place - the way I see it, if I asked 10 people exactly what they wanted out of their camping club, I would probably get 10 different answers. I also have volunteered for many organizations and frankly it is the few that do the work that others get to enjoy - I'm not complaining because I enjoy/enjoyed what I did/do - it gives me GREAT satisfaction to see others enjoy themselves.

And now we get to the VAC - one of the major reasons, if not the reason the VAC as outlined earlier is because folks are not stepping up to help - not even to write articles - now if the VAC were able to pay folks, you would see a LOT more done.

So though I don't agree with a lot of what goes on the WBCCI, I for one think we should support it - if only because it gives us an outlet for using our trailers, meeting new friends and getting out to see this country in a safe manner - I for the most part take the club for what it is, and I really don't think a whole lot (until I see threads like this ) about the WBCCI - I don't care what they do - as far as the price, I don't like that either, but then what does not cost money these days - if I get to a point where I can't afford it anymore, I'll go on, but for now I'm able to and I'm going to enjoy the heck out of it.......

But then all this sure beats complaining about taxes, government and cost of living

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Old 04-26-2011, 07:47 PM   #751
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When the average member of the club tends to be 20-40 years older than the women that work at HQ, I guess most of them would still see them as "the girls" in HQ.

Though I guess in the "Politically Correct" world we live in today, you can't say that kind of stuff anymore.

Like a friend of mine told me not long ago that he no longer drove a Garbage truck for a living, when asked what he was doing now, I was told he was a “Waste Transport Engineer”. I just hope he enjoys is new job more.
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Old 04-26-2011, 08:14 PM   #752
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sorry LI but i thought "what do they do" was pretty much the same as "what are thier responsibilities" but i will leave arguing over wording to the two camps fighting over the constitution. the only reason i ask is because i really don't know! i mean what is the day in the life of an officer or an office "human" i don't know.
ken....well stated. but i disagree that this beats complaining about taxes, government and the cost of living. i see it as the same thing. and i'm really not trying to piss anyone off i'm just trying to get a handle on what all this is about. because i feel like if i were to join a club and was asked sometime down the road to help out, i would be happy to contribute as long as i have a pretty good idea of what that entails and half the club wasn't going to get bent out of shape over it because i was doing things differently than they would to reach the same ends. i guess i'm just a little wary because i've never needed a club or even a friend to go camping. i just thought it might be something different. and fun. and the one rally i went to was exactly that. i'm just trying to give folks a possible answer to why membership is declining.
and that's all i have to say about that.
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Old 04-26-2011, 09:15 PM   #753
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sorry LI but i thought "what do they do" was pretty much the same as "what are thier responsibilities" but i will leave arguing over wording to the two camps fighting over the constitution. the only reason i ask is because i really don't know! i mean what is the day in the life of an officer or an office "human" i don't know.
ken....well stated. but i disagree that this beats complaining about taxes, government and the cost of living. i see it as the same thing. and i'm really not trying to piss anyone off i'm just trying to get a handle on what all this is about. because i feel like if i were to join a club and was asked sometime down the road to help out, i would be happy to contribute as long as i have a pretty good idea of what that entails and half the club wasn't going to get bent out of shape over it because i was doing things differently than they would to reach the same ends. i guess i'm just a little wary because i've never needed a club or even a friend to go camping. i just thought it might be something different. and fun. and the one rally i went to was exactly that. i'm just trying to give folks a possible answer to why membership is declining.
and that's all i have to say about that.
I have a lot of fun with our new WBCCI friends - rallies and traveling in caravans to other rallies! My advice is to help where and when you can at your local unit or units events. Attend any VAC events that you can!! Then if you are interested, learn more and make your own opinions. This club is changing, and I see many changes that are good for the most members, and the long term. No club, business, or person is perfect. The attitudes you see in others is often a reflection of yourself. Go enjoy! Come camp with us!!
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Old 04-26-2011, 09:18 PM   #754
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Like a friend of mine told me not long ago that he no longer drove a Garbage truck for a living, when asked what he was doing now, I was told he was a “Waste Transport Engineer”.
Careful there. Those of us that are real college educated, degreed, and licensed engineers might not like others that do not have the training and qualifications falsely calling themselves "engineers".
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Old 04-26-2011, 09:36 PM   #755
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The ladies at HQ have the responsibility of putting together the Blue Beret ten times a year. They put together the annual directory. They receive the monies from the 120+ units. They dispense the monies to the International and Region officers in response to their submission of travel expense reports. They take care of the day to day arrangement of the International rally (They receive a $40,000 fee paid from the rally receipts for that). They answer the phones and answer questions posed to them.

The International and Region Officers attend the International rally, some special event rallies, some Region Rallies and attend the IBT meeting usually held somewhere in the south in January. In addition, the Region officers plan and put on a Region Rally once per year. The Region officers also usually each year visit a unit rally given by each of the units in their Region and perform the installation procedure for the Unit officers at that rally, if those unit officers are not sworn in at the Region Rally. The club could likely survive quite well with half the travel that is now occurring. As past unit president, I have sworn in many incoming unit officers. I feel I do not need to pay some one to drive 400 miles to do this simple function.
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Old 04-26-2011, 10:02 PM   #756
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Dwight,

The $40,000 is actually a transfer of cost from the general WBCCI budget to the International Rally budget. In no way does it go to the Ladies at HQ.

Bill

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The ladies at HQ have the responsibility of putting together the Blue Beret ten times a year. They put together the annual directory. They receive the monies from the 120+ units. They dispense the monies to the International and Region officers in response to their submission of travel expense reports. They take care of the day to day arrangement of the International rally (They receive a $40,000 fee paid from the rally receipts for that). They answer the phones and answer questions posed to them.

The International and Region Officers attend the International rally, some special event rallies, some Region Rallies and attend the IBT meeting usually held somewhere in the south in January. In addition, the Region officers plan and put on a Region Rally once per year. The Region officers also usually each year visit a unit rally given by each of the units in their Region and perform the installation procedure for the Unit officers at that rally, if those unit officers are not sworn in at the Region Rally. The club could likely survive quite well with half the travel that is now occurring. As past unit president, I have sworn in many incoming unit officers. I feel I do not need to pay some one to drive 400 miles to do this simple function.
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Old 04-26-2011, 10:45 PM   #757
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Perhaps my last comment was unclear. Dwight gave me the impression, not necessarily anyone else, that the $40,000 charged to the International Rally budget was paid directly to the office staff in Jackson Center. My understanding is that the $40,000 is a cost allocation which includes all the Jackson Center office overhead items, including liability insurance. There is no direct payment to the office staff of this amount.

In addition, this amount has not changed in several years, even though the attendance at the International Rally has decreased over the years. I do not disagree with the allocation, but I believe that the amount should be reviewed and adjusted if necessary.

This results in reduced general overhead of WBCCI, which is paid from member dues, and increased cost of the International Rally, which is paid by the attendees.

Bill
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Old 04-27-2011, 06:06 AM   #758
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The general fund is a the big pot of money in the club. The International Rally fund is a smaller pot of money which comes from the International Rally fees. Any profit from the International each year is retained in the pot to cover potential future losses at future Internationals. We have about 100K left in that pot. We made a $87K profit on Gillette but a $103K loss at Madison. The general fund pot pays for general operations, which is mainly the $200K that goes for the office operations in Jackson Center. Most of that is salaries. The general fund pot is filled by mostly member dues, $370K/yr. They take $40K out of the rally pot each year to help fill the big pot. They justify that by saying the HQ and the officers do a lot of work in support of the rally. They use the fancy term "cost allocation transfer". That is true. This is the way the accounting system at WBCCI works. If you want a copy of the Financial statement PM me.
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Old 04-27-2011, 07:56 AM   #759
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Nonprofits have as bad or worse record of theft by employees and officers as for profits. That is one reason for an audit. Another is that auditors can save you money by suggesting reforms.

Board resist audits thinking they are doing a good job of running the organization, but that signifies a closed mind.

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Old 04-27-2011, 08:48 AM   #760
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Cojar - ok - I consede that this discussion does not beat complaining about taxes, government and the cost of living - - - - -

Your comments are very good - I think you bring up some great points in general about why to join the club to begin with - many of us don't need the club to go camping - I will say though, some of the best freinds I've made over the past few years have been because of the WBCCI - its increased my circle of friends from my local area to all over the country - and I think thats been pretty cool - so as I've said I pretty much ignore all the politial BS and enjoy it for what it is

Ken J.
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