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Old 04-06-2011, 10:17 AM   #661
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Arrow Member control of the Bylaws

this was posted on Metro NY

There has always been a concern of the members that they have no ability to amend the Bylaws.

Here is a proposed amendment being contemplated by Metro NY for presentation at the delgates meeting, by their delegate.

ARTICLE XVI

Sec. 2 Any chartered Unit, Area Board,the IBT, or the International President may submit in writing to Headquarters
a proposed amendment to this
Standard of Conduct,
Bylaws (commencing in 2012) or Constitution.

If adopted this should solve numerous issues.


proposed amendment in red



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Old 04-06-2011, 10:27 AM   #662
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"Submit" is not the same as "adopt or amend". I could write a letter to headquarters with my ideas and I supposed that would be a submission.

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Old 04-06-2011, 11:19 AM   #663
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Apparently the discussion on the revised constitution has moved to the Metro NY forum.

I was requested by a member of the revision committee to address my unanswered questions to the new email address for this committee. I prepared and sent a new email with my questions, since I was told that not all members of the committee monitored this thread on AirForums.

I sent my questions, with a couple of new questions and comments to the email address. Some of my questions and comments with response from committee members were posted on the Metro NY forum.

The last two items regarding Article IX and I were not answered.

Since I had originally posted my questions here, I am copying their responses here:

1. If the revised constitution is passed as is, with no changes, will the members have any additional control over the by-laws than they have now?

Response: The proposed revised Constitution retains the authority of the IBT to “define Bylaws and policies” as per the existing Constitution. The clause regarding the powers “to construe and interpret” in the current Constitution has been deleted in the revision and is proposed to be addressed in the Bylaws themselves. It will be necessary to review both the revised Constitution and the revised Bylaws to answer this question fully, otherwise a direct comparison cannot be made. If the Delegates want to see these powers spelled out more specifically in the Constitution, then an amendment to accomplish this can be presented.

Kerry M


Article VI

Should be clearer that MALs have the right to vote for international officers and on changes to the constitution


Response: We believe that the proposed wording is clear as written. MAL’s will have all of the rights of regular members except for voting or holding office in Units and Areas, as they do not belong to either. It is simpler to list the two exclusions than the longer list of inclusions.


Article XVI

The member caucus is to be "...scheduled during the summer months or at a scheduled International Rally...". Shouldn't it be required that the caucus be at the International Rally to insure the most members attend and participate?

If the July meeting is held using electronic means, will members be able to comment on the agenda or only able to listen? Is it necessary to attend the international in person to participate in the Caucus?

I am uncertain that replacing the current delegate system with the member caucus is an improvement.


Response: There have been many suggestions that the International Rally needs more flexibility in setting dates and some question whether it should be held annually. We would expect that the Caucus would normally be held at the Rally but what if a Rally is not held or is cancelled? This provision would give the Club the flexibility to schedule another venue for a Members’ Caucus.

Freeing the International Rally from the July 1 – July 4 bracket can have benefits of more flexibility in finding good locations and may facilitate attendance by more members, but it creates challenges for statutory requirements for conducting certain Club business associated with the start and finish of a fiscal year, such as the installation of new officers. We believe that suitable electronic systems are available to allow effective participation. Details of how these meetings will be conducted will be addressed in Bylaws and policies.

The current delegate system is being replaced by both direct member voting and the Members’ caucus. They are fully linked. Direct member voting obviates the role of the delegate and we want to retain a deliberative forum through the Caucus. We are encouraging broad discussion throughout the Club so that members can decide if these combined changes are an improvement.


Article VII
I agree with the extension of term for the Treasurer, but it is necessary for the Recording Secretary?

Why are the Treasurer and Recording Secretary voting members of the IBT and Executive Committee? It seems to me that these are staff positions and not line positions.


Response: The terms of the Treasurer and Recording Secretary are proposed to be extended to two years to provide greater continuity on the Executive Committee and the IBT. With the terms expiring in alternate years, there will be no gap in the continuity. It is quite normal to designate these elected positions as members of the Executive in a nonprofit membership organization. Their roles are important to the Club.


Kerry


Article XII

The IBT will have total control over the number of new areas. These areas are to be of equal membership. How often will the areas be reorganized? Is the number of members based on the units or the location of the individual members? For those units which cover more than one state, how will they be assigned to areas? Will units in states be split into more than one areas?

I don't believe that it is necessary to change the word "Region" to "Area".

I thought that there was a minimum number of areas, but cannot locate it. Can someone point me to the correct section?




Response: The proposed revised Constitution does not address the number of Areas or how often they may be changed. An earlier draft that was released without authorization has created some confusion in this regard. As with our current Constitution, the Bylaws will provide the details of “how” and “when”. There has been much discussion about the best number of “Areas” or “Regions” and views still differ widely. The Club will need the flexibility to adjust its organization in response to changing membership numbers and this is best accomplished through Bylaws which are easier to amend.

The change from “Regions” to “Areas” is in part a move back to our early years and in part a deliberate attempt to avoid the impression of creating winners and losers in identifying a number of new Areas, as opposed to Regions. With the new designation, everyone gets a new name and there should be no confusion with historical documents.


Kerry


Article IX

As a CPA and interested member, I don't think that an audit should be replaced by a review. I believe that it is important for a entity of this size to have audited financial statements which are distributed to the membership. What is the cost of an audit and what is the cost of a review by the WBCCI's independent accountants?

Article I

I see no need to add "The Airstream RV Association".
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Old 04-06-2011, 12:43 PM   #664
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Bylaws Revision

Quote:
Originally Posted by RickDavis View Post
It would be a lot easier to know what to support if we could see the bylaws. Perhaps this should be delayed a year so the whole package is available.. I have developed so much patience waiting to get to this point whats another year?
Rick,

The proposed changes in the constitution are extensive and if accepted by the membership will require an extensive rewrite of the Bylaws. Yes I suppose the Bylaws could be written at the same time as the revision, but it would be a waste of time considering no one knows 1) if the Delegates will vote for the revision, and 2) what amendments will be proposed for the Articles of the revision.

The other thing is that many of the complaints expressed by members and nonmembers on this thread are not controlled by the constitution or Bylaws, but other documents such as the International Rally manual. Do these need to be reworked, yes!

This process of change is not going to take place overnight and having worked with all of these documents rather intensively the past 8 months I realize there is no silver bullet out there that will fix the problems. The solution is to start with the foundation, constitution, and build from there building a better governance structure.

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Old 04-06-2011, 12:51 PM   #665
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wkerfoot View Post

Article IX

As a CPA and interested member, I don't think that an audit should be replaced by a review. I believe that it is important for a entity of this size to have audited financial statements which are distributed to the membership. What is the cost of an audit and what is the cost of a review by the WBCCI's independent accountants?

Article I

I see no need to add "The Airstream RV Association".
Check again please, I missed posting those two
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Old 04-06-2011, 12:56 PM   #666
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Committee response to one of my questions:

Article IX


As a CPA and interested member, I don't think that an audit should be replaced by a review. I believe that it is important for a entity of this size to have audited financial statements which are distributed to the membership. What is the cost of an audit and what is the cost of a review by the WBCCI's independent accountants?

Good question and most certainly that language can be changed in the proposal or better yet very specific directions be established in the Bylaws.



The question of cost has not been answered. Does an amendment need to be prepared to add this?

Bill
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Old 04-06-2011, 12:57 PM   #667
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The committee response to my last item:

Article I

I see no need to add "The Airstream RV Association".

The Letterhead of the WBBCI clearly says "The Airstream RV Association" and this is not a change in the name of the club only a recognition of an alternate name used by the club.




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Old 04-06-2011, 01:20 PM   #668
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And I wasn't more than 95% sure I should drop out.

I won't waste another 20 minutes reading about this. Good luck Wheel Int. and all those who're sticking it out. See you down the road at a VAC or Forum function.

If they had a crying Wally emoticon I'd use it.

Paula
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Old 04-06-2011, 01:39 PM   #669
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LI Pets View Post
this was posted on Metro NY

There has always been a concern of the members that they have no ability to amend the Bylaws.

Here is a proposed amendment being contemplated by Metro NY for presentation at the delgates meeting, by their delegate.

ARTICLE XVI

Sec. 2 Any chartered Unit, Area Board,the IBT, or the International President may submit in writing to Headquarters
a proposed amendment to this
Standard of Conduct,
Bylaws (commencing in 2012) or Constitution.

If adopted this should solve numerous issues.

proposed amendment in red
.
Often times problems can be solved by a stroke of a pen. For those that have questioned about control of the Bylaws as a missing part of the equation should go back and reread Article XVI with this single word addition as an amendment. The date of 2012 is an administrative necessity allowing the Revision Committee to complete their assigned task of rewriting the Bylaws.
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Old 04-06-2011, 01:49 PM   #670
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Originally Posted by Foiled Again View Post
And I wasn't more than 95% sure I should drop out.

I won't waste another 20 minutes reading about this. Good luck Wheel Int. and all those who're sticking it out. See you down the road at a VAC or Forum function.

If they had a crying Wally emoticon I'd use it.

Paula
I am hanging around to see if the delegates decide to give the current EC7 their pink slips in the perfected revision and maintain the delegate system and the methods for making amendments to the constitution. Once there is confidence and integrity to the system taking one amendment at a time should be most beneficial and productive. It was interesting what Gene had to say about the bundling of changes and the advantages of thoroughly investigating individual initiatives. It doesn't seem to me that the constitution was broken but rather that there were and are some that will not be held accountable to follow fair procedure. You cannot make a deal in your favor with the unscrupulous.
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Old 04-06-2011, 02:11 PM   #671
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Some support

In our Region 9 President's newsletter for April, President C. C. Gartman comes out strongly against adoption of the new constitution. Posted on wbregion9.org
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Old 04-06-2011, 02:12 PM   #672
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One of the most (maybe the most on this thread) snarky posters appears to have taken to sending PM's rather than post openly because he knows such stuff gets deleted by the mods when he posts it. I got one criticizing something I posted but having nothing but bald faced allegations and telling me since I am not a member, I should have nothing to say.

So, at least by that person's view of things, anyone contemplating joining, or wanting to see how this works out, or having some thoughts about how things could work better, is uninvited to this or any other WBCCI thread. It would appear, therefore, that the WBCCI is an exclusive club and outsiders are unwelcome unless they keep very quiet. I guess those are Lawrence Welk attitudes.

I don't think this type of person actually represents the other WBCCI members who post on this thread and maybe they should try to control this self appointed spokesperson who does little to help the cause and only knows: attack, attack, attack. It's really quite tedious. Maybe he should be the 2nd person I put on "ignore"; the only other one I did seems to have recently disappeared I am told and maybe it'll work for #2. I would hate to see mods having to police PM's too.

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Old 04-06-2011, 02:36 PM   #673
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HowieE,

I have reviewed the old Article XVI, new Article XVIII, and you may be correct, however Article XV still gives the IBT control over the Bylaws.

Bill

Quote:
Originally Posted by HowieE View Post
Often times problems can be solved by a stroke of a pen. For those that have questioned about control of the Bylaws as a missing part of the equation should go back and reread Article XVI with this single word addition as an amendment. The date of 2012 is an administrative necessity allowing the Revision Committee to complete their assigned task of rewriting the Bylaws.
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Old 04-06-2011, 04:33 PM   #674
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LI Pets View Post
this was posted on Metro NY

ARTICLE XVI

Sec. 2 Any chartered Unit, Area Board,the IBT, or the International President may submit in writing to Headquarters
a proposed amendment to this
Standard of Conduct,
Bylaws (commencing in 2012) or Constitution.

.
Wkerfoot

It appears there is some confusion with Article XVl in post 681 that should read Article XVlll Section 2.





.
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Old 04-06-2011, 04:47 PM   #675
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In our Region 9 President's newsletter for April, President C. C. Gartman comes out strongly against adoption of the new constitution. Posted on wbregion9.org
John

Are you posting this comment because you support your Presidents position and after having read the Revised Constitution.
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Old 04-06-2011, 06:00 PM   #676
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. I would hate to see mods having to police PM's too.

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Just a side note: Forum rules extend to all sections of the site including Private Messaging. If a member receives a PM that is in opposition to our forums rules, there is a report icon (red triangle) just above and to the right of the PM. Clicking the report icon will send a copy of the PM to the site team for review.
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Old 04-06-2011, 06:47 PM   #677
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We are newbies to Airstream and the WBCCI, but not foreigners to these kinds of contentious debates.

The intensity of some of these posts reminds me of the heated and contentious debates last year in our long established Lutheran Church. The history is worth a brief review: The Lutheran Synod passed changes in the constitution which were objectionable to many parishioners. Debates erupted all over the country. Our local church now no longer exists! The church congregation split, friendships dissolved, bitterness reigned, and we lost 30 years of effort to build a strong and lasting community church. Also our $7 million church and acreage are now history.

Please, just be very careful about how solutions are sought and conflicts resolved. I perceive a distinct awareness that many, many folks have invested incredible amounts of time and energy to evolve this club to its current level of prestige and prominence.

All of us would rue the demise of the WBCCI, if it did indeed occur.

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Old 04-06-2011, 07:01 PM   #678
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What about:

ARTICLE X
INTERNATIONAL BOARD OF TRUSTEES
Sec. 3 The IBT shall define the Bylaws and policies of, and shall have full administrative authority in all matters pertaining to the WBCCI and shall exercise general control and supervision of all officers and committees.


ARTICLE XV
BYLAWS AND POLICY
Sec. 1 Bylaws and Policies not inconsistent with this Standard of Conduct and Constitution which embody additional provisions for the governance of the WBCCI may be adopted by the IBT.


OK, let's just call this kettle black and be done with it. The amount of work/time it will take to make the "New Constitution" something that can be used, we could have spent half the amount of time to fix the old one.

Vote No, fix the one we have and be done with it. A lot less work, a far better product and much more control to the membership.
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Old 04-06-2011, 07:26 PM   #679
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Paul

I believe your first comment pertains to article lX section 3 rather than article X section 3.

But in any case is your point the reference to the obligations of the IBT?

The for mentioned amendment in post 681 provides for the origination of changes to the bylaws. The articles you note provides for the administration of the bylaws. If I recall past comments it was the lack of an effective means for the membership to originate changes to the bylaws that was the stumbling block for so many previous posts. Doesn't 681 address that concern?




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Old 04-06-2011, 09:03 PM   #680
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HowieE,

It is not the ability to originate changes in the bylaws the the control over what is in the bylaws. Two completely different things.

Bill

Quote:
Originally Posted by HowieE View Post
Paul

I believe your first comment pertains to article lX section 3 rather than article X section 3.

But in any case is your point the reference to the obligations of the IBT?

The for mentioned amendment in post 681 provides for the origination of changes to the bylaws. The articles you note provides for the administration of the bylaws. If I recall past comments it was the lack of an effective means for the membership to originate changes to the bylaws that was the stumbling block for so many previous posts. Doesn't 681 address that concern?




.
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