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Old 03-30-2011, 10:09 AM   #521
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1M1V fixes the problems?

Howie,

You are correct in the first line of your response when you said “current Constitution”. I know the “current Constitution” cannot address the problems/concerns of which I pointed out.

That’s why I asked “How does the New Constitution” resolve these issues?

I hope one of the “new voices” of the Revision Committee can answer my questions.

You bring up “1M1V”. How does “1M1V” resolve those issues/concerns in the “New Constitution”?

The way I read it, that power is still controlled by the IBT even with 1M1V implemented?

Thus the reason for my questions.

Again, I hope one of the “new voices” from the Revision Committee can answer these all so important concerns many members and the 2020 Committee point out in their reports over the years.
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Old 03-30-2011, 10:30 AM   #522
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Paul: The proposed revised constitution does not and cannot solve every issue in the Club. The items that you raise are bylaw issues and will be addressed when the bylaws are revised. The proposed revision to the constitution gives us a better framework on which to build those revised bylaws. Your concerns are legitimate and shared by many, but we can't do everything in one document. We started with what we believe is the best beginning - the constitution. Lets get that right and then move on to the bylaws.

Kerry
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Old 03-30-2011, 10:58 AM   #523
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wheel interested View Post
Is there to be provision for online discussion aside from Air Forums? Putting all our eggs in one basket is not fail safe. Case in point, depending upon the responses, especially of the individuals that post inappropriately violating forum ethics, this and all the other threads can easily and often are rendered inaccessable. This is not the venue but the last remaining bastion for WBCCI members to gather online. We need to have a dedicated place for WBCCI members to exchange information. To be fair to AIR moderators this IS neither the time nor place to handle the politics of our club.

So my concern in this regard is two fold. One is for the immediate project of revision discussion and the second is, when will WBCCI provide a forum for its members, and should that be included in the revision document?

Also if any revision committee member would address my earlier posts titled by article on the revision, I would appreciate it.
Good point, perhaps we need to hear a reply from the mods on that issue.

The revision of the bylaws not the constitution may address the forum.

As far as your earlier posts they may be lost in the time down

Can you repost the questions please.
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Old 03-30-2011, 11:04 AM   #524
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I may have missed it when I was traveling without WiFi access, but is there a link up yet to the proposed documents? I just looked on the WBCCI website and couldn't fint it as yet.

Thanks.
Should be posted tomorrow or Friday
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Old 03-30-2011, 11:18 AM   #525
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Sorry to hear

Kerry,

Thanks for your response.

So “nothing” in the “New Constitution” will fix or begin to solve any of the concerns from the membership in regards to spending, rigidness and control of information. I’m really; really sorry to hear that and I’m sure many of the other members in the WBCCI will be too.

You say in your response “The items that you raise are bylaw issues and will be addressed when the bylaws are revised”. The way I understand the “New Constitution” the “WBCCI By-Laws” are still under the control of the “IBT” and not the “Revision Committee”.

So what authority does the “New Constitution” give the “Revision Committee” to make sure this happens in the future?

The way I understand it that “Authority” will still be with the “IBT”.

Since the “Revision Committee” was considered a “Special Committee” created under the current IP, after the election of the new IBT officers at the International Rally that Committee will cease to exist unless continued by the next WBCCI International President.

Has Barry H. already informed you guys/ladies that he plans to continue this committee?

Even if Barry H. decides to continue the “Revision Committee”, what makes any think the rest of the IBT will release the control of the WBCCI “By-Laws” or allow oversight/auditing by the general membership?

Have they already told you they will?

Have you and others been guaranteed this in writing?
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Old 03-30-2011, 12:04 PM   #526
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Thanks, Bob.
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Old 03-30-2011, 12:08 PM   #527
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Responding to Carol's concern, personally, I cannot think of a better place or Forum to discuss all this. It's not as if we fear too many posts take up too much space - quite the opposite.

But, as Janet has said repeatedly (and recently) - "Be kind." Make your best arguments but never get abusive. Also, please don't intentionally pull someone's string - I'm a relative newcomer to the Forum to a lot of you but nonetheless have learned where a lot of hot buttons lie, as have you. So, let's not push them. More importantly, if your string gets pulled - don't retaliate. If it rises to the level of reporting it, report it. Otherwise, walk away for awhile. Imagine you are sitting around a campfire talking. I can't imagine harsh words arising in that environment.

By the way: Go Rams - Go VCU!

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Old 03-30-2011, 12:34 PM   #528
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Paul: The mandate of the Revision Committee is to recommend revisions to the Blue Book. That includes the Constitution, Bylaws and Policies. We are proceeding on that mandate.

Kerry
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Old 03-30-2011, 12:37 PM   #529
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It wasn't my posts that got pulled however it did prevent everyone from being able to see or post to the thread about the revision. And unfortunately as Janet pointed out this was but (again.) I agree Pat. Everyone should play nice because it hurts everyone when one acts out. Lost time also means posts get buried and are asked to be reposted to gain visibility. Threads get pulled to the back and it can be quite some time before they reappear and then may be locked and then no one can speak on anything or know what's happened or ask and be answered. So let's try to avoid that! FYI, Bob, they are there just scroll waaaaay back. I also suggest we copy the quote of the post we are addressing for clarity and continuity. Often there is more than one dialogue currently active.
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Old 03-30-2011, 01:02 PM   #530
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I agree Carol,

By the way are going to the International this year, I would really like to meet you?
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Old 03-30-2011, 01:03 PM   #531
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Member Authority

Kerry,

To give the membership the needed authority in the “New Constitution”, may I suggest the following changes in an effort to give checks a balance to the management of the club.


“New Constitution”

ARTICLE X
INTERNATIONAL BOARD OF TRUSTEES
Sec. 3 The IBT shall define the Bylaws and policies of, and shall have full administrative authority in all matters pertaining to the WBCCI and shall exercise general control and supervision of all officers and committees.

Sec. 3 The IBT shall define the Bylaws and policies of, and shall have full administrative authority in all matters pertaining to the WBCCI and shall exercise general control and supervision of all officers and committees. The Members’ Caucus shall have full authority to annually review any Club Bylaw and/or Policy during its annual meeting when 20% or more of the members present at the Members Caucus meeting agree to do so. Any repeals or changes can be made to the Bylaws by a simple 51% majority vote by the Members’ Caucus present after review.

ARTICLE XV
BYLAWS AND POLICY
Sec. 1 Bylaws and Policies not inconsistent with this Standard of Conduct and Constitution which embody additional provisions for the governance of the WBCCI may be adopted by the IBT.


Sec. 1 Bylaws and Policies not inconsistent with this Standard of Conduct and Constitution which embody additional provisions for the governance of the WBCCI may be adopted by the IBT. The Members’ Caucus shall have full authority to annually review any Club Bylaw and/or Policy during its annual meeting when 20% or more of the members present at the Members Caucus meeting agree to do so. Any repeals or changes can be made to the Bylaws by a simple 51% majority vote by the Members’ Caucus present after review.


Understand, I'm not trying to be a pain, I'm just trying to help WBCCI members understand where currently the "real" power is located and how the New Constitution in its current form does very little to change who holds it and who can change it.

Good Luck.
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Old 03-30-2011, 01:05 PM   #532
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Is it necessary to attend the international in person to participate in the Caucus?

Bill
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Old 03-30-2011, 01:10 PM   #533
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I agree Carol,

By the way are going to the International this year, I would really like to meet you?
With luck I will have a job and not be able to attend the International, with no luck I won't have a job and still wont be able to attend the International. But we met at the Can Opener in Florida one year when you were playing music with Joe C. Scroll waaaaay waaaay back, in your memory. See I really don't make ripples in the water, in person.
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Old 03-30-2011, 02:04 PM   #534
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First, I would like to thank the members of the committee who have put a great deal of personal time and sacrifice into developing this document. I was a little apprehensive regarding the rewriting of the entire constitution and I am still not entirely sold on the idea. However, after reading through it several times I find some areas that are really promising. As some others have stated, I assumed that certain issues would be addressed directly, but now I can see evidence of changes to the process of how business within the club can be better handled and we can possibly effect the changes we desire in the future.
Just a few positive changes (IMO) I’ve noticed.

· Possible reduction in the number of members of the IBT, i.e. Areas vs Regions
· Past IP non-voting member of IBT
· The procedure for electing the nominating committee
· Methods for choosing candidate for offices
· Methods for revising bylaws
· Flexibility on holding virtual meetings
· Individual member voting for candidates
· Elimination of the third VP
· Members vote directly for candidates and changes to Bylaws

I don't intend to debate the issues, I'm just making an additional tool available for anyone's use. One of the things that helped me to parse through the articles and the sections was to re-format the document so I could keep track of the changes which had been made. I laid it out in the same format as was posted here on the forum and added an additional column for my comments and questions.
I also changed the font color for the proposed changes to each section. I left the red strike-through font for the deletions to the existing constitution and changed to the font color to blue for the proposed changes to the wording. I tend to lean towards being a visual learner and this helped me to pick out the changes a lot easier. I was extremely careful not to make any mistakes cutting and pasting the pdf which was uploaded last week. I am attaching the worksheet as example. If anyone would like to have this document in Word form (.docx) please let me know and I will forward it to you. I did not include my comments and questions on the worksheet. My hope is that members of my unit can utilize this document to track their comments on the proposed revision constitution. I will be making it available to them on our unit website once I have seen the official proposal on the WBCCI website and have checked my worksheet for accuracy. If any members of the committee would like me to post the Word document here on the forum I can make that available.


20110227ProposedreplacementConstitution[TEW Comments].pdf
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Old 03-30-2011, 02:19 PM   #535
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rideair View Post
Kerry,

Thanks for your response.

So “nothing” in the “New Constitution” will fix or begin to solve any of the concerns from the membership in regards to spending, rigidness and control of information. I’m really; really sorry to hear that and I’m sure many of the other members in the WBCCI will be too.

You say in your response “The items that you raise are bylaw issues and will be addressed when the bylaws are revised”. The way I understand the “New Constitution” the “WBCCI By-Laws” are still under the control of the “IBT” and not the “Revision Committee”.

So what authority does the “New Constitution” give the “Revision Committee” to make sure this happens in the future?

The way I understand it that “Authority” will still be with the “IBT”.

Since the “Revision Committee” was considered a “Special Committee” created under the current IP, after the election of the new IBT officers at the International Rally that Committee will cease to exist unless continued by the next WBCCI International President.

Has Barry H. already informed you guys/ladies that he plans to continue this committee?

Even if Barry H. decides to continue the “Revision Committee”, what makes any think the rest of the IBT will release the control of the WBCCI “By-Laws” or allow oversight/auditing by the general membership?

Have they already told you they will?

Have you and others been guaranteed this in writing?
Paul,
I will repeat what Kerry has said, your concerns are very real, but the constitution is not the place to fix Bylaw issues, which need to be addressed after the proposed constitution as amended is accepted.

In a previous post I pointed out that the proposed constitution is just that, a proposal to be submitted to the Delegates for their consideration. The Bylaws article, as written, is in a basic form, which gives the Board the power to enact Bylaws. It does nothing else in the proposal, but if the membership wishes to have more input to the Bylaws then in the review and amendment process the proposed constitution will go through by the Delegates it can be amended to address those concerns. The revision committee considered a number of options for this issue, but in the end felt it was one to be deliberated at the Delegates meeting. I for one would hope that those with the most concern would come with proposed amendments to the Bylaws article that fit into the 1M1V structure of the proposed constitution.

Thank you for your concern and willingness to engage in the discussion.

Tom
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Old 03-30-2011, 02:20 PM   #536
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Proposed revisions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aviator View Post
I may have missed it when I was traveling without WiFi access, but is there a link up yet to the proposed documents? I just looked on the WBCCI website and couldn't fint it as yet.

Thanks.
Forrest posted them earlier:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forrest View Post
Here is the Revision Committee's complete proposed replacement for the WBCCI Constitution and Chairman Shafer's Constitution and Bylaws Report (letter of recommendation). Note that the Revised Constitution was not recommended for adoption. Both are lengthy documents.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf 20110227 Proposed replacement Constitution.pdf (914.9 KB, 23 views)
File Type: pdf 20110318 C&BC recommendation.pdf (234.3 KB, 25 views)
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Old 03-30-2011, 02:22 PM   #537
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Good Job!

Thank you Tom – very well done.

Your approach is very logical and makes it much easier to see the differences.
The issues within the change process needed to be structured to control the various suggestions that will be forthcoming over the next few weeks.
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Old 03-30-2011, 02:41 PM   #538
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Article XII

The IBT will have total control over the number of new areas. These areas are to be of equal membership. How often will the areas be reorganized? Is the number of members based on the units or the location of the individual members? For those units which cover more than one state, how will they be assigned to areas? Will units in states be split into more than one areas?

I thought that there was a minimum number of areas, but cannot locate it. Can someone point me to the correct section?

Bill
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Old 03-30-2011, 02:43 PM   #539
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Article VII

I agree with the extension of term for the Treasurer, but it is necessary for the Recording Secretary?

Why are the Treasurer and Recording Secretary voting members of the IBT and Executive Committee? It seems to me that these are staff positions and not line positions.

Bill
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Old 03-30-2011, 02:43 PM   #540
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Quote:
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Forrest posted them earlier:
Nuvite,

Thank you for the information regarding the documents posted by Forrest. However, there are a total of 6 documents dealing with the proposal that need to be looked at as they explain many of the questions being asked and were not in the incomplete posting by Forrest. These documents will be available tomorrow or April 1 at the WBCCI web site and have been sent to the Region Presidents today.

My suggestion is to look at these as they are more complete then the documents that were sent out without the supporting documents.

Tom
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