Porsche Cayenne, VW Touareg, Audi Q7 owners

[Knuff]

Tom_T, we went from a San Diego converted Honda Element Pop Top (aka ECamper) = the original Knuff, to a 2002 Eurovan Pop Top "Zottel", via the FC now the 25FB. It has been an "upgrade" feast over the last 10 years. Having two large dogs and a wife with more than one pair of shoes, it has been a trip. The journey is the goal...
Our knacking point came when 150+ miles gravel in Southern Utah just bounced the heck out of our VW (and I am not a slow mover on gravel ). But I hear you - GoWesty!

[subfan1]

Love your Westy Tom! Looks very clean. These are hard to find in this condition, I'm trying though.


Sent from my iPhone using Airstream Forums

[TCwheels]

Upgrade fest indeed! All nice rigs! I'm kinda most partial to the 20 though...


WBCCI #7246 Michigan Unit,Texas Hill Country Unit (associate member), AIR #91367

[Tom_T]

Nice string of camping rigs Knuff! I didn't even know they made a Honda Element Pop-top. The Cayenne looks great pullin' the silver twinkies too! That's one of the colors we like as well.

Wife's shoes heck! We packed for 2 kids, wife & I for 2-4 weeks XC CA> OK,AR,IN,PA,WVa or CA> OR/WA/BC every summer, & shorter trips throughout the year when the kids were still home.

And I used to tent camp out of my 73 914-2.0 for the 10 years it was my DD - clothes & gear for 2 in 2 trunks totaling 16 CF (mid-engine helps)!

I keep my cars, so the 914 is #3, 85 BMW 325e #4, 88 Westy is #5 of 5 since I bought my 1st used car in Fall `69 - so I don't have my 68 Opel Kadette 2DR Notchback Sedan 1.1L #1 nor #2 69 Pontiac Ventura 4DR Hardtop 400ci V8 Auto! Latter would make a good vintage TV if I still had it & properly refurb'ed & equipped with HD everything to tow (it did had the optiuonal power disc/drum brakes) - a real gas hog though!

So our Cayenne S would only be my 6th car ... in almost 50 years of driving ... ever!
.... not counting the parental cars we drove when young, of course.

.

Subfan - it helps to be the original owner & carefully cared for all that time since 4/88, & then to throw a bunch of money at a 2013 resto/refurb! That's why it's in that condition.

Pic below is of my `73 914-2.0 "914S" of which I'm the 2nd owner since Dec `75 & I did a rolling resto/refurb of the body & all running gear/drivetrain in `80-83, then it was smacked by a ditz in a parking structure mashing F & R, then had been stored in my garage since June `85 - started disassembly in this pic, but now currently in a holding pattern for resto as of now, due to other projects, but hope to get into the shop later this year, with a Cay-S to tow it there!

Cheers!
Tom
///////

[Airstreamer67]

What's all this pop-top van and sports car refurb talk about? Can't anyone hold an attention span on Eurocar towing diesels anymore? :-)

[Tom_T]

Originally Posted by Airstreamer67

What's all this pop-top van and sports car refurb talk about? Can't anyone hold an attention span on Eurocar towing diesels anymore? :-)

Just some past/current vehicle & history chit-chat by car nuts I suppose ....apologies!

But then, this is not the "Diesel only" thread anyway!

The V8 & V6 Gassers are also allowed in here from the Cay/Treg/Q7 clan too!

So how about some help with some C/T/Q specific issues related to towing & in general, as my make-peace offering for going OT? ....

Cayenne RennList Forum:

For those looking for help with the Cayenne, I found the RennList Cayenne Forums very helpful (with some relevance for Treg & Q7 too)....

Porsche Cayenne Forum - Rennlist Discussion Forums

.

C/T/Q Extended Warranties:

For those looking for a used C/T/Q not on a CPO warranty & want some coverage, this Fidelity Warranty was recco'd by several owners on here & RennList, since they actually underwrite the VW & possibly Porsche & Audi CPOs....

Fidelity Warranty Services - Home Page

.

No Rear Back-up Camera Option - try this:

This aftermarket RearCam was recco'd as a great quality plug-n-play unit for the Cayenne by a retired Porsche Service Tech on RennList for Porsche Cayennes not equipped with one (you can use the make/model/MY/etc. drop-down menus to reselect for others like Q7, Treg, etc.)....

https://www.navtv.com/products/make/..._2006_usa.html

Dealers & independents familiar with Cayennes can install them, or self-install if your talented enough.

.

No Factory Tow Option - No Problem, Add it:

And the place to get your official genuine Porsche 955 Cayenne tow option parts - if you're retrofitting the Cayenne, but at a decent price (they're a FL Porsche dealer parts dept.). IIRC it has to be a post mid-04 Cayenne to add one after the fact, but confirm this on the forums.

You'll need the dealer to reprogram the Cayenne to implement the factory settings (trans shift mapping, EFI power mapping, etc.) & so the Cay will "recognize" when it's hitched & automatically engage the towing mode.

Towing System: Suncoast Porsche Parts & Accessories

You can also use their price to negotiate the parts price with your local dealer installing it, or get the parts yourself for them to install. They seem to want to quote $2000-2500 at the SoCal P-dealers, but with this part (or price matching) they'll come down to the $1000-1500 range.

If someone offers you to install an aftermarket hitch, then it's my understanding that none of the Porsche towing functions will integrate & work as designed, although I'm aware that some folks do so & still tow. I'd prefer to use the proper parts & have it installed per the factory, both to ensure it functions as advertised & maintains vehicle value.

There! I hope I have redeemed myself for my prior OT auto chit-chat discussion.

Cheers!
Tom
///////

[2012FB]

Originally Posted by Knuff

Ok all - perhaps we can com back to the original intention of this thread to share experiences among people who actually use a Cayenne/Audi/Touareg or similar SUVs for towing.

I drove all the above Diesel SUVs and towed with several including the JGC and settled on the 2014 ML350 3.0 BlueTec. I can say for 25' and under it is my humble obviously biased opinion the ultimate for ride quality, handling, braking, pulling, load handling as equipped with CanAm reinforcement and Pro-Pride. Since then I have gone back to the 3/4 Diesel for the 30' Bunk, which every time I tow I am longing for the comforts of the ML. With the exception of the JGC, of which I did not have a good test tow experience, I don't think you can go wrong with any of the above properly setup.

[Msmoto]

I rarely go to Porsche events except our local Girls in Porsches luncheon we have monthly. Just do not have time for all this stuff, Airstream, photography, historical railroading, race circuits, and others stuff.




Ms Tommie Lauer
Greensboro, NC
2015 Serenity 30 RB / 2008 Dodge Cummins 4 X 4
WBCCI #4165 AIR #31871

[Tom_T]

What are the Cayenne TV folks doing for a full size spare for the Cayenne?

..... or are most folks just comfortable with the stock space saver spare?

I personally cannot see towing with a space saver, so that means unhitching & leave the TT, while you go find/buy a replacement tire for the flat.

MsMoto ... sounds like you have a full plate Tommie!

TIA for any Input!
Tom
///////

[Knuff]

I bought an extra wheel on ebay, and have a full size spare that is stored under the dinette in the back of the airstream in a nice bag. The tiny space saver spare does not have the load capacity to handle the trailer. We also take the Pepe out a lot on gravel roads, when not hooked up (we move the spare into the back of the car) - and I feel better with having a full size spare with us.

[Ohiobrits]

Same as Knuff, full size spare stored under the dinette, move to TV when camping. I remove the space saver from the TT also since I'm towing with 3 people in the Cayenne (gives you about 40 lbs extra payload in the TV).

[Tom_T]

Thanx Knuff & Ohiobrits,

I assumed that the temp collapsible spare was not load rated for that.

Over time too, there may not be any replacement tires for the compact deflated spares as well!

I've seen in the Porsche Cayenne options lists over the years - a full size spare & carrier option - I assume it's the exterior swing-away rear rack that I've seen in pix on some of the offroader Cays in Panorama/Excellence/R&T/etc.

Anyone with experience with that factory full size spare/carrier set-up?

Are they still available from Porsche back to the Series 1 (03-06) & Series 2 (08-10) Cayennes? .... or is it a matter of hunting a used one down?

My other alternative - in addition to the spare in a bag under the dinette - would be to further adapt the rear cargo rack for our bikes & trailer spare, to carry 2 spares if it doesn't exceed the rack's wt. rating. It may be able to carry 1 @ L & 1 @ R on my underslung set-up, which then can also fold up with them vertical & facing out.

Being a single axle TT - the spare for it is also a needed precaution IMHO.

Also in preparation for our Cayenne S search - I've been reviewing the specs for the 2006 Series 1 4.5L Cayenne S & 08-10 Series 2 4.8L Cay S, & they apparently added a "Trailer Stability Control" feature to the PSM.

Does anyone have any experience between the 03-06 & 08-10 Cayennes to say whether that "Trailer Stability Control" is an advanced feature worth pushing us to only consider buying a used Series 2 Cay-S?

.... And, Yes - I do know about & will/have checked that any 2006 Cay S Titanium Ed. we look at has had the metal coolant pipes & ignition coils upgraded, & will check on all years/series that the Cardan Shaft/Mid-bearing, Front Lower Control Arms/Bushings, Water Pump & Timing Chain Tensioners, & other services have all been done in a religious & timely fashion!

Cheers!
Tom
///////

[vinstream]

Here is my set up...
VW R50 V-10 TDI with air ride with 19 foot custom built all aluminum frame Trailer with disk breaks, with no WD hitch but I do use sway control. More power than I ever need for this size trailer but must say its fun to buzzzzz right by other SOB's going over !0,000 ft passes in Colorado!

[Road Ruler]

Originally Posted by vinstream

Here is my set up...
More power than I ever need for this size trailer but must say its fun to buzzzzz right by other SOB's going over !0,000 ft passes in Colorado!

Nice!

[Tom_T]

In re-reading some of the earlier posts on this thread - as well as on other threads concerning the Cayenne & Taureg - I noticed a few of the typical "why pay more for the 'same' Porsche Cayenne as the VW Taureg" commentary. After some extensive research for our own TV search - I feel that there is a real difference between the "cousins" - even if the proud Taureg owners would prefer to have us think of them as "twins" - except that they're not!

First - in reality - if you compare "apples with apples" price-wise (not build-wise) - a comparably equipped Taureg in any year & sub-model/engine type is really not that far off of the Cayenne prices - remarkably so even when new. And the Porsche still has many tangible & worthwhile benefits over the T-reg in terms of power, braking & suspension/handling - as noted below - as well as generally better build quality & quality control over VW.

And that price premium is negligible once you get a few years into the used car market - again for comparable equipment + similar miles & condition/care. Not to mention that you'll find more "rode hard & put away wet" used VW Tauregs which lacked the proper level of maintenance - than with the Porsche Cayenne S, GTS, Turbo, Turbo S & Diesels - & a bit less so on the Cayenne V6, which like the T-regs, tended to be more often less cared for grocery getter soccer mom/dad cars.

There is in fact the "Porsche pride of ownership" effect, which is also reflected in it being easier to find low & very low mile well cared for - even pampered - used Porsche Cayennes, than VW Tauregs. I found it even more so over the other competing used Asian, European & domestic mid-sized V8 powered SUVs/CUVs - which tend to be high mileage & in poor condition within 3-5 years old. As a used car buyer, I prefer that pride of ownership effect!

Second - Just to be perfectly clear for those looking at buying & comparing the two "cousins" - NO - they are NOT exactly the same, the Porsche is 60 - 80% different parts content wise - & they are more % different on the 2011> Series 3 & later Cayennes.

These 3 vehicles are sharing a "platform" with body shells of the Taureg & Cayenne similar - but the Cayenne unibody/chassis still has chassis stiffening & strengthening upgrades/differences from the T-reg - & the Q7 is mostly different due to its longer body/wheelbase to accommodate a 3rd seat row (see below).

It's true that VW builds the basic chassis/body shells for both/all 3 at their plant, but then Porsche line finishes the Cayennes separately within the same plant with Porsche components. This VW-Porsche joint venture is in fact the 2nd JV which financially saved Porsche's b*tt due to its strong sales. Or the third, if you also include the Porsche 924/944/968 models, which Porsche took over after VW left that prospective JV car before its production even started. And the 500,000+ Cayennes sold to date clearly have saved Porsche financially - usually selling about as many Cayennes (now in 2015 MY also including their Macans) - as all other Porsches combined for every year!

Historically & as the Cayenne/Taureg JV corporate precedent - the first VW-Porsche JV to save Porsche financially was in the late 1960s-1976, as embodied in the Porsche 914 (sold by VW as a VW-Porsche for the 4 cylinder models in the rest of the world - see my pic @ post 104) - again selling as many 914s as all other models for 1970-76 model years at 114,000+ in 5 model years, with all the `76 MYs completed in 1975. Moreover, at peak sales before the Dollar-Deutche Mark devaluation killed all German cars' sales - the `73 & `74 MY's 914s sold 27,000+/- each year at the peak - nearly equaling recent Cayenne annual sales!

The 914s too - like the Cayenne/Taureg, were unibody shells/chassis built by VW in their Karmann plant in Osnabruck - with the 914-6 bodies shipped to & completed by Porsche on their Stuttgart line (sold as a Porsche everywhere, but badged as a VW-Porsche outside of the US & Canada), while VW completed the 914-4 models at Karmann.

So you see Mr. Airstreamer67 - there actually is a parallel & strong historical link between my little 914 sports car which you chided me about above - and these Cayenne, Taureg & Q7 cousins of this thread! They were both VW-Porsche joint ventures, with Audi coming along on the latest JV after a few years, as part of the VW empire (pre-acquisition of Porsche, so now all 3 are VW divisions).

I would posit that the 914 program laid the groundwork for, made possible, & was the historical precedent of the current VW-Porsche Cayenne/Taureg JV - which might not have been as successful - if not impossible - without the lessons learned in the 1960-70's 914 JV program! So a little respectful history of the Cayenne/Taureg is also "on topic" in this case!

As for the differences of the Cayenne line-up - Porsche does a very large number of significant changes throughout the Cayenne line-up - over their Taureg "cousins" - including the fact that the Porsches all have larger displacement & more powerful engines, bigger brakes, a completely different & stiffer & more controlled suspension, different "smart systems" (PSM, PTM, etc. are all different than the VWs), & a number of other differing & improved or better sub-assemblies & functional systems - from the completely VW built T-regs.

In fact with the engines for example - only the gas & diesel V6 blocks/cases are shared, with different Porsche heads/pistons/cylinders, EFI, ignition, cooling & oil systems, etc. And the V8s are better performing & completely Porsche engines of larger displacement, HP & TQ. All Porsche motors all have more HP & TQ, than do those in the competitive T-reg sub-models. The transmissions & AWD systems have likewise been either tweaked by or replaced by Porsche, as are the suspension & brake systems.

The Cayennes simply drive, handle, pull, accelerate, stop, are put together better, etc. better than the Treg - for anyone who has owned &/or driven both.

Does that mean that the VW & Audi cousins are not great SUVs? Absolutely not! That Audi based V10 TDI engined Taureg was/is a monster puller - out pulling the Dodge 3/4 ton V8 Cummins diesel in a YouTube video - even if it is also "Porsche-level" expensive to maintain & repair (try $1600 for a starter, to start with - pun intended). And I have to admit that a clever mispronunciation of Taureg even evokes its TV prowess as "Tow-rig"!

But they also are NOT "just the same as a Cayenne, but for less money"!

With the Audi Q7 - you're usually going that route because you want the 3-row seating option for more passenger capacity - so it stands on its own as an option, but the power/brakes/suspension differences also apply to the Q7.

As to future values' depreciation & appreciation .... will a Taureg become an icon & as valuable in 20-30 years as a then classic car - as will a Porsche? Maybe for the Taureg V10 TDI & a few special models/trim packages, but I doubt for most others. But then I was surprised that my restored `88 VW Westfalia is now worth 3x what it sold new for, due to it's cult following. Will all Cayennes be better "investments"? No, but more so as compared to VWs, if current history is an accurate indicator, and more so for the Porsche V8s & diesels - especially their powerhouse V8 TTDI only offered in Europe/ROW - & other special models/trims.

And I am NOT anti-VW - as you can tell from my long time ownership of 2 VWs - our `88 VW Westy Vanagon, & my`73 914-2.0 powered by a Porsche tweaked VW flat-4 - which Posche improved after VW said they could not make their motor bigger than 1.8L (that was after VW left the JV in 73-74), & Porsche had the 1.7/1.8 motor tweaked by Hans Mezger of 917's 12 & 16 cyl. fame, which 2.0L VW subsequently "borrowed" for use as their own later 412 & Bus engines, & is the genisis of the waterboxer 4 in our Westy!

Of course the Porschephiles shoudn't get too cocky either, since Porsche started out in 1948 with a tweaked VW & continued that in the 356s & 912s for their first 2+ decades! And then the 924/944/968 were essentially VW/Audi based as well!

So I say just pick your vehicle from the 3 cousins - or from the BMW, MBZ, Volvo & other mid-size SUV/CUV competitors - based on your own budget, needs, desires, preferences, styling, towing, etc. - & what is available for sale at the time.

But don't try to spoof us that the VW is just like the Porsche! .... You'll also need to add the "...except for...." & then add the list!

IMHO - these are just some needed clarifications on this C/T/Q topic, so that newbies know the real story behind these great vehicles - of which all 3 are indeed excellent TVs which "punch well above their weight class" - & can still do the daily driver routine in comfort - without the need to take up a lane & a half or 2 parking spaces! .... unless you're just being a very careful owner, that is!

Cheers!
Tom
///////

[Tom_T]

Originally Posted by vinstream

Here is my set up...
VW R50 V-10 TDI with air ride with 19 foot custom built all aluminum frame Trailer with disk breaks, with no WD hitch but I do use sway control. More power than I ever need for this size trailer but must say its fun to buzzzzz right by other SOB's going over !0,000 ft passes in Colorado!

Great looking V10 Vin!

I saw one in that color last year for sale in CO, but it sold too fast for me to see it.

What is that light silvery-blue metallic called in the VW world?

It looks similar or the same as the Porsche "Iceland Silver" only offered for 6 months on the 2006 Cayenne S Titanium Ed. (2007-A MY). which we like & is the only pre-2008 we're looking at buying (see pic).

PS - That Taureg V10 was apparently built in order to allow Audi to homologate the motor for racing purposes. It is one Taureg where VW one-upped Porsche on the Cayenne line-up! Love it!

[vinstream]

Originally Posted by Tom_T

In re-reading some of the earlier posts on this thread - as well as on other threads concerning the Cayenne & Taureg - I noticed a few of the typical "why pay more for the 'same' Porsche Cayenne as the VW Taureg" commentary. After some extensive research for our own TV search - I feel that there is a real difference between the "cousins" - even if the proud Taureg owners would prefer to have us think of them as "twins" - except that they're not!

First - in reality - if you compare "apples with apples" price-wise (not build-wise) - a comparably equipped Taureg in any year & sub-model/engine type is really not that far off of the Cayenne prices - remarkably so even when new. And the Porsche still has many tangible & worthwhile benefits over the T-reg in terms of power, braking & suspension/handling - as noted below - as well as generally better build quality & quality control over VW.

And that price premium is negligible once you get a few years into the used car market - again for comparable equipment + similar miles & condition/care. Not to mention that you'll find more "rode hard & put away wet" used VW Tauregs which lacked the proper level of maintenance - than with the Porsche Cayenne S, GTS, Turbo, Turbo S & Diesels - & a bit less so on the Cayenne V6, which like the T-regs, tended to be more often less cared for grocery getter soccer mom/dad cars.

There is in fact the "Porsche pride of ownership" effect, which is also reflected in it being easier to find low & very low mile well cared for - even pampered - used Porsche Cayennes, than VW Tauregs. I found it even more so over the other competing used Asian, European & domestic mid-sized V8 powered SUVs/CUVs - which tend to be high mileage & in poor condition within 3-5 years old. As a used car buyer, I prefer that pride of ownership effect!

Second - Just to be perfectly clear for those looking at buying & comparing the two "cousins" - NO - they are NOT exactly the same, the Porsche is 60 - 80% different parts content wise - & they are more % different on the 2011> Series 3 & later Cayennes.

These 3 vehicles are sharing a "platform" with body shells of the Taureg & Cayenne similar - but the Cayenne unibody/chassis still has chassis stiffening & strengthening upgrades/differences from the T-reg - & the Q7 is mostly different due to its longer body/wheelbase to accommodate a 3rd seat row (see below).

It's true that VW builds the basic chassis/body shells for both/all 3 at their plant, but then Porsche line finishes the Cayennes separately within the same plant with Porsche components. This VW-Porsche joint venture is in fact the 2nd JV which financially saved Porsche's b*tt due to its strong sales. Or the third, if you also include the Porsche 924/944/968 models, which Porsche took over after VW left that prospective JV car before its production even started. And the 500,000+ Cayennes sold to date clearly have saved Porsche financially - usually selling about as many Cayennes (now in 2015 MY also including their Macans) - as all other Porsches combined for every year!

Historically & as the Cayenne/Taureg JV corporate precedent - the first VW-Porsche JV to save Porsche financially was in the late 1960s-1976, as embodied in the Porsche 914 (sold by VW as a VW-Porsche for the 4 cylinder models in the rest of the world - see my pic @ post 104) - again selling as many 914s as all other models for 1970-76 model years at 114,000+ in 5 model years, with all the `76 MYs completed in 1975. Moreover, at peak sales before the Dollar-Deutche Mark devaluation killed all German cars' sales - the `73 & `74 MY's 914s sold 27,000+/- each year at the peak - nearly equaling recent Cayenne annual sales!

The 914s too - like the Cayenne/Taureg, were unibody shells/chassis built by VW in their Karmann plant in Osnabruck - with the 914-6 bodies shipped to & completed by Porsche on their Stuttgart line (sold as a Porsche everywhere, but badged as a VW-Porsche outside of the US & Canada), while VW completed the 914-4 models at Karmann.

So you see Mr. Airstreamer67 - there actually is a parallel & strong historical link between my little 914 sports car which you chided me about above - and these Cayenne, Taureg & Q7 cousins of this thread! They were both VW-Porsche joint ventures, with Audi coming along on the latest JV after a few years, as part of the VW empire (pre-acquisition of Porsche, so now all 3 are VW divisions).

I would posit that the 914 program laid the groundwork for, made possible, & was the historical precedent of the current VW-Porsche Cayenne/Taureg JV - which might not have been as successful - if not impossible - without the lessons learned in the 1960-70's 914 JV program! So a little respectful history of the Cayenne/Taureg is also "on topic" in this case!

As for the differences of the Cayenne line-up - Porsche does a very large number of significant changes throughout the Cayenne line-up - over their Taureg "cousins" - including the fact that the Porsches all have larger displacement & more powerful engines, bigger brakes, a completely different & stiffer & more controlled suspension, different "smart systems" (PSM, PTM, etc. are all different than the VWs), & a number of other differing & improved or better sub-assemblies & functional systems - from the completely VW built T-regs.

In fact with the engines for example - only the gas & diesel V6 blocks/cases are shared, with different Porsche heads/pistons/cylinders, EFI, ignition, cooling & oil systems, etc. And the V8s are better performing & completely Porsche engines of larger displacement, HP & TQ. All Porsche motors all have more HP & TQ, than do those in the competitive T-reg sub-models. The transmissions & AWD systems have likewise been either tweaked by or replaced by Porsche, as are the suspension & brake systems.

The Cayennes simply drive, handle, pull, accelerate, stop, are put together better, etc. better than the Treg - for anyone who has owned &/or driven both.

Does that mean that the VW & Audi cousins are not great SUVs? Absolutely not! That Audi based V10 TDI engined Taureg was/is a monster puller - out pulling the Dodge 3/4 ton V8 Cummins diesel in a YouTube video - even if it is also "Porsche-level" expensive to maintain & repair (try $1600 for a starter, to start with - pun intended). And I have to admit that a clever mispronunciation of Taureg even evokes its TV prowess as "Tow-rig"!

But they also are NOT "just the same as a Cayenne, but for less money"!

With the Audi Q7 - you're usually going that route because you want the 3-row seating option for more passenger capacity - so it stands on its own as an option, but the power/brakes/suspension differences also apply to the Q7.

As to future values' depreciation & appreciation .... will a Taureg become an icon & as valuable in 20-30 years as a then classic car - as will a Porsche? Maybe for the Taureg V10 TDI & a few special models/trim packages, but I doubt for most others. But then I was surprised that my restored `88 VW Westfalia is now worth 3x what it sold new for, due to it's cult following. Will all Cayennes be better "investments"? No, but more so as compared to VWs, if current history is an accurate indicator, and more so for the Porsche V8s & diesels - especially their powerhouse V8 TTDI only offered in Europe/ROW - & other special models/trims.

And I am NOT anti-VW - as you can tell from my long time ownership of 2 VWs - our `88 VW Westy Vanagon, & my`73 914-2.0 powered by a Porsche tweaked VW flat-4 - which Posche improved after VW said they could not make their motor bigger than 1.8L (that was after VW left the JV in 73-74), & Porsche had the 1.7/1.8 motor tweaked by Hans Mezger of 917's 12 & 16 cyl. fame, which 2.0L VW subsequently "borrowed" for use as their own later 412 & Bus engines, & is the genisis of the waterboxer 4 in our Westy!

Of course the Porschephiles shoudn't get too cocky either, since Porsche started out in 1948 with a tweaked VW & continued that in the 356s & 912s for their first 2+ decades! And then the 924/944/968 were essentially VW/Audi based as well!

So I say just pick your vehicle from the 3 cousins - or from the BMW, MBZ, Volvo & other mid-size SUV/CUV competitors - based on your own budget, needs, desires, preferences, styling, towing, etc. - & what is available for sale at the time.

But don't try to spoof us that the VW is just like the Porsche! .... You'll also need to add the "...except for...." & then add the list!

IMHO - these are just some needed clarifications on this C/T/Q topic, so that newbies know the real story behind these great vehicles - of which all 3 are indeed excellent TVs which "punch well above their weight class" - & can still do the daily driver routine in comfort - without the need to take up a lane & a half or 2 parking spaces! .... unless you're just being a very careful owner, that is!

Cheers!
Tom
///////

I think my V-10 TDi with air-ride is way better than what the Porsche Cayenne offers... sure it the rarest of all them...

[vinstream]

Originally Posted by Tom_T

Great looking V10 Vin!

I saw one in that color last year for sale in CO, but it sold too fast for me to see it.

What is that light silvery-blue metallic called in the VW world?

It looks similar or the same as the Porsche "Iceland Silver" only offered for 6 months on the 2006 Cayenne S Titanium Ed. (2007-A MY). which we like & is the only pre-2008 we're looking at buying (see pic).

PS - That Taureg V10 was apparently built in order to allow Audi to homologate the motor for racing purposes. It is one Taureg where VW one-upped Porsche on the Cayenne line-up! Love it!

It was called the same color... My vehicle the R50 was built in the Porsche factory... maybe thats why?!

[Ohiobrits]

Originally Posted by vinstream

Here is my set up...
VW R50 V-10 TDI with air ride with 19 foot custom built all aluminum frame Trailer with disk breaks, with no WD hitch but I do use sway control. More power than I ever need for this size trailer but must say its fun to buzzzzz right by other SOB's going over !0,000 ft passes in Colorado!

Now that's a diesel! Who needs a bug truck? Now Porsche, why not a Cayenne Diesel S? Fastest diesel SUV around the Nurburgring - nice partner in crime with the Turbo S gasser?

[timhortons]

I didn't like the appearance of the new Touregs, so I bought a used Q7. Different people like different things. For example I think the porsches look like giant VW bugs to me, lots of people love 'em.

Here in Canada there's +10k difference or so for each tier new, Toureg, Q7, Cayenne Diesel, plus taxes plus fees, plus depreciation, plus parts/service being more expensive on the higher brands.

There are mechanical differences and frills as you go higher as well. If you need drilled carbon fiber ceramic brakes or the stereo that rises from the dash ....

Having driven a badge engineered hondas for 20 years under the acura brand I'm not paticularly bothered that theres a different brand or more mass market vehicle under the skin/hood. Overall that makes for a more reliable vehicle.

I was bothered somewhat that the still super expensive 55- 60kCDN Toureg, had some cheaper surface fit and finish mixed in with the good stuff. In general I think VW main brand is slightly skitzoid in this regard between being a peoples car brand and a luxury brand(remember the Phaton). VAG can build super lux but the bean counters make profitable decisions about what to put in and leave out at each tier.

Conversely you'll note that sometimes the badge/brand/adapted versions of the vehicle will not get mainstream features or vice versa. For example there's a 7 speed auto slushbox(highly tuned) in the Cayenne and the 8 speed DSG, in the Q7 and the Toureg. (the DSG is a little lurchy at lower ranges and may not have seemed refined enough for porsche)

Also there's a new Q7 weight loss program with more high strength steel and aluminum body panels that takes off about 800 lbs ! When this arrives it will be the most modernized member of the family for a year or two I think. Or is there a VW/Porsche version of this already ?