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Old 05-13-2015, 12:07 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knuff View Post
Thank you all for the great posts and lots of information.

I am at this point actually wondering whether anyone knows of a hitch failure on any of these SUVs? I am leaning towards getting my hitch modified after swapping our 20ft FC to the 25 International, but I hesitate to add a trip from the Bay area up to Canada just for modifying our Pepe; perhaps there is a local shop with experience. But again, perhaps the whole point of need for modification is just a myth and even at 100b over the structure of these SUVs is providing lots of room before failures are becoming a reality. Although this said, I do not want to be the first one to experiment.

So, perhaps the second question is who pulls 23, 25, 27, 30ft Airstreams without modifications and what is your experience?
I towed with Touaregs (V8 & V10 diesel) for 8 years with a 19' Bambi and a 25FB. No issues with either and actually towed the Bambi without WD...and only a friction sway bar. The OEM hitch on Touaregs is pretty substantial but you have to watch your payload. Full spare in car and no more gear in trunk aside from empty water jugs or other lightweight/bulky items. Generator, stove and other stuff in tubs in rear of trailer. Spend some time at the scales. All of this has been discussed over and over if you do a search.

However, if you decide to do the hitch reinforcement, I suggest removing the bathtub muffler and routing the support straight back instead of wrapping it around the muffler and reducing your clearance. Here is a photo of a V10 (sans mufflers) with the exhaust rerouted. Any good hitch shop can do the modification to your hitch.
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Old 05-13-2015, 04:00 PM   #22
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Towing

We tow a Sport 22 FB with a 2013 Touareg turbo diesel with absolutely no problem. Do have an equalizer hitch and stabilizer. The VW is so nimble and with the diesel it is like having nothing behind. Have gotten as high as 19mpg depending on terrain. Easy going all the way and no problems in the mountains.
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Old 05-13-2015, 07:21 PM   #23
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Rear muffler delete - receiver mod

Quote:
Originally Posted by mojo View Post
However, if you decide to do the hitch reinforcement, I suggest removing the bathtub muffler and routing the support straight back instead of wrapping it around the muffler and reducing your clearance. Here is a photo of a V10 (sans mufflers) with the exhaust rerouted. Any good hitch shop can do the modification to your hitch.
mojo - spot on! Here are a couple of pictures of my receiver mod. The muffler is removed. On a diesel with the cats and particulate filter there is next to no increase in noise without the muffler. You will notice some more noise at full throttle, windows down when towing since the exhaust sound bounces back off the AS. Sounds a bit like a huge volume of air rushing through an orifice. Not unpleasant. Unhitched windows up or down you will not hear any appreciable difference. I had my mods done by a local custom exhaust shop. I provided the 2.5" square tube and plate sourced from McMaster Carr. You can order online and have shipped. Not the most cost effective way of sourcing the material but convenient. The safety chain loop was from Amazon.

There is also a recent thread with some photos of the Can-Am style mod (muffler in place) here. Thread is about a Merc but the photos are of a Touareg/Cayenne and a Q7. Modification in this way does reduce ground clearance by about 2" which may be a concern.
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Old 05-14-2015, 05:45 PM   #24
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I should have said that with our 2014 VW Touareg we are using a Reese WD system. With that hooked up you hardly know you are towing anything, until you check the rear-view mirror and wonder who the **** is tail-gating you!
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Old 05-14-2015, 08:44 PM   #25
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We tow our 2014 Airstream FC 20' FB with new to us 2011 Touareg Sport and Equalizer Hitch setup.
Coming up on our 1st year anniversary of ownership with over 120 nights camped, 10,000 + miles and typical mileage is 15-17 mpg driving 55-62 mph. Our experience has included many 7-15% grades and we really enjoy our setup.
On the other hand, everyone stops by our campsite and typically comments ....."so you pull your little Airstream with this VW"!
We're thinking about getting a sign for the Touareg to mount - "yes I really tow this little Airstream".

We get same question about our Lexus RX350 towing our 20' - "Yes, tows like a dream!"


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Old 05-17-2015, 08:51 AM   #26
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Uh, I'm not exactly in the Cayenne, Touareg, Q7 club. We have an LR3. Wondering if I can interject a question in this thread -we are trying to get the LR3 ready to tow, complete newbies, and now evaluating whether we need to get new tires. The LR3 currently has the Nokian WR G3 SUV Severe Winter and All Weather tires which I had put on the car after the crappy tires hubby put on it slid on the ice/snow at 20mph. I was determined to put the best winter tires on it. And these, unlike other "all weather" tires were better rated for all seasons so we could just leave them on all year .... but, probably not for towing, right?

So, question is, what kind of tires are best for towing with these types of SUVs?
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Old 05-17-2015, 07:34 PM   #27
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The Nokians will be fine, they just may wear a little quicker.
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Old 05-17-2015, 08:28 PM   #28
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love this thread

i love this thread because it just shows that you dont need a 3/4 ton truck to tow safely and enjoy it in style. and more than that, when you arent towing, you have a great vehicle. since i drive a porsche cayman s i had considered these options but landed up going with a bmw x5 diesel which is a similar genre of vehicle. it is great and appears to have similar results to those posted above. my concern was that if i was in the middle of nowhere the porsche dealer was probably going to be further away than the bmw dealer. may or may not be true. soon will be looking for another daily driver and may very well look at the porsche again.
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Old 05-17-2015, 11:38 PM   #29
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Porsche Cayenne, VW Touareg, Audi Q7 owners

I looked very seriously at the turbo diesel BMW x5 to tow our 20. But as funny as it sounds, I knew my DW would not be able to figure out how to drive the darn thing! All the driver interfaces are very complex - which, of course, makes them fun for ME - so for the sake of harmony I stayed with our Lexus.


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Old 05-18-2015, 01:24 AM   #30
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i love this thread because it just shows that you dont need a 3/4 ton truck to tow safely and enjoy it in style. and more than that, when you arent towing, you have a great vehicle. since i drive a porsche cayman s i had considered these options but landed up going with a bmw x5 diesel which is a similar genre of vehicle. it is great and appears to have similar results to those posted above. my concern was that if i was in the middle of nowhere the porsche dealer was probably going to be further away than the bmw dealer. may or may not be true. soon will be looking for another daily driver and may very well look at the porsche again.
The X5D is the daily driver, parked next to our LandYacht moho. however, my wife is not comfortable driving the moho, especially with the toad behind it so we are thinking about a 25 or 27' if the X5 will tow it. I'm guessing CanAm is a good place to start and will also talk with a NorCal guy (Vinnie's Airstream Repair) since Vinnie used to work at an MBZ dealership.

A recent discussion about a Cayenne alternative suggested we should not test drive the Cayenne or we would be spoiled! however my full warranty to 100K miles is a major consideration.
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Old 05-18-2015, 10:47 AM   #31
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LolaT

You will be fine with the Nokian winter tires. Just check the load rating to make sure from a fully loaded perspective (towing), you will not overload the tires (unlikely). TireRack.com, if they sell them, will have the info or you will find it on the sidewalk. I run with Pirelli Ice and Snow (winter) tires all year round. I was not planning on this but they drive so well for a winter tire that I have no issue leaving them on all year. They will probably wear faster due to the low temp compound but other than that I don't expect any issues.
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Old 05-18-2015, 08:01 PM   #32
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X5

Quote:
Originally Posted by TerraYacht View Post
The X5D is the daily driver, parked next to our LandYacht moho. however, my wife is not comfortable driving the moho, especially with the toad behind it so we are thinking about a 25 or 27' if the X5 will tow it. I'm guessing CanAm is a good place to start and will also talk with a NorCal guy (Vinnie's Airstream Repair) since Vinnie used to work at an MBZ dealership.

A recent discussion about a Cayenne alternative suggested we should not test drive the Cayenne or we would be spoiled! however my full warranty to 100K miles is a major consideration.
TerraYacht, lots of folks on here towing with X5's and more recently with the diesel. I very seriously considered the X5 35d prior to settling on the Cayenne. A few observations from my research: -

- Payload will likely be your main consideration, take a look at the tire and load label on the frame where the drivers side door opens. You should have payload and axle loads there. Your AS tongue weight (minus maybe 100lbs or so that will transfer back to the AS with WD applied) will come out of that payload allowance. What is left will need to be enough for you and anything else you want to carry in the TV.
- The US version is rated to tow 6600lbs - from what I found out, because the receiver offered in the US (dealer install) is only rated at 6600lbs.
- The Euro version (built at the same factory in the US) is rated to tow 3500kg / 7700lbs - go figure.
- I read one account of bending of the commonly fitted aftermarket Invisihitch receiver when using WD. This was from a X5d owner over on Bimmerpost.
- The same owner also had the Dynamic Handling package which includes electronically adjusted dampers and sway bars. He indicated towing was a white knuckle ride with this suspension setup. He assumed there was some issue with the suspension software not understanding what was happening with WD applied. This was an assumption on his part but possibly a good one. It could have been a number of other things also such as too much weight transfer to the front with WD applied. I know from first hand experience - that does not feel good....at all.... He now tows with no WD applied due to his relatively light (500lb) SOB tongue weight.

The X5 I had picked out had the dynamic handling package since I found the regular steel sprung X5 a little soft for my tastes. In the end, the combination of factors above persuaded me to go with the Cayenne with good old fashioned steel springs. No regrets there

As you note - Can-Am would be the best resource to get advice on the X5. They may have experience with the various high tech suspension setups and how they work when towing. They will without doubt be able to get you set up safely with the X5 and a 25 or 27 footer.

There is a recent post from an X5 owner here for reference. He really liked his setup. I think he had basic steel spring suspension - if that matters.

If you decide to tow with your X5, go ahead and start an X5 thread with your findings....Good luck!
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Old 05-19-2015, 11:49 AM   #33
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Thank you all for the very interesting and helpful information. I think that it might be a good idea (and even only for our own piece of mind) to explore a hitch reinforcement on our Cayenne. Does anyone have experience with a local shop able to do the modifications?
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Old 05-19-2015, 01:19 PM   #34
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I have a 2011 Q7 3.0 TDI with the reinforcement described as futureproofing for 2' itis. I'm confident this could pull anything AS makes.

Q7 has a longer wheelbase and is rated at 6600lbs vs 7700 on the Toureg/Cayenne

If you're pulling more than the 22ft sport, I'd recommend the reinforcement to go with your WDH.

at 16FT

Pros:

4WD gets you out of muddy spots without chains
Engine loafs at highway speeds, for long distances and hills
Barely know the trailer is there.
"up to" 18MPG towing
More room for crap and passengers
- tow bigger trailers in the future

Cons:

- Tow Vehicle is longer than trailer
- Center of Grav. is definitely higher leading to slight lean on the twisties,
- Car is somewhat more pleasant for about town driving.
- Barely know the trailer is there.
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Old 05-19-2015, 07:18 PM   #35
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Another happy camper with an X5 diesel. More than enough power to pull our 23'. And to answer another question in the thread, I have the Nokian WR G2 tires as well. Great tires!
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Old 05-19-2015, 10:45 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohiobrits View Post
TerraYacht, lots of folks on here towing with X5's and more recently with the diesel. I very seriously considered the X5 35d prior to settling on the Cayenne. A few observations from my research: -

- Payload will likely be your main consideration, take a look at the tire and load label on the frame where the drivers side door opens. You should have payload and axle loads there. Your AS tongue weight (minus maybe 100lbs or so that will transfer back to the AS with WD applied) will come out of that payload allowance. What is left will need to be enough for you and anything else you want to carry in the TV.
- The US version is rated to tow 6600lbs - from what I found out, because the receiver offered in the US (dealer install) is only rated at 6600lbs.
- The Euro version (built at the same factory in the US) is rated to tow 3500kg / 7700lbs - go figure.
- I read one account of bending of the commonly fitted aftermarket Invisihitch receiver when using WD. This was from a X5d owner over on Bimmerpost.
- The same owner also had the Dynamic Handling package which includes electronically adjusted dampers and sway bars. He indicated towing was a white knuckle ride with this suspension setup. He assumed there was some issue with the suspension software not understanding what was happening with WD applied. This was an assumption on his part but possibly a good one. It could have been a number of other things also such as too much weight transfer to the front with WD applied. I know from first hand experience - that does not feel good....at all.... He now tows with no WD applied due to his relatively light (500lb) SOB tongue weight.

The X5 I had picked out had the dynamic handling package since I found the regular steel sprung X5 a little soft for my tastes. In the end, the combination of factors above persuaded me to go with the Cayenne with good old fashioned steel springs. No regrets there

As you note - Can-Am would be the best resource to get advice on the X5. They may have experience with the various high tech suspension setups and how they work when towing. They will without doubt be able to get you set up safely with the X5 and a 25 or 27 footer.

There is a recent post from an X5 owner here for reference. He really liked his setup. I think he had basic steel spring suspension - if that matters.

If you decide to tow with your X5, go ahead and start an X5 thread with your findings....Good luck!
Ohiobrits: Thanks for the detailed response. My 2012 has a "factory" hitch that was installed at the distribution center in Southern CA, and I have the air suspension but not the dynamic handling.

When I return from vacation (could not take the moho or X5 to Hawaii) I will check the stickers and then contact my dealer's "BMW Genius," a new position for techie questions and help, to find out why the difference in load ratings: different hitch design or different lawyers?
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Old 05-21-2015, 12:44 PM   #37
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I just purchased a 25FB and have a 2015 Audi Q7 TDI. I work for Audi so I know that it is built on the same platform and has the same basic engine as your Cayenne. I talked with John at Can-Am and they had not done any work on an Audi that they had pictures of. I am 3000 miles from there anyway. I have an excellent fabricator in our shop but need photos showing where the hitch reinforcement mounts forward of the spare tire well. Do you have any photos of your installation? I would really appreciate it. I pick up the 25 in two weeks and need to get this done.
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Old 05-21-2015, 04:40 PM   #38
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I just purchased a 25FB and have a 2015 Audi Q7 TDI. I work for Audi so I know that it is built on the same platform and has the same basic engine as your Cayenne. I talked with John at Can-Am and they had not done any work on an Audi that they had pictures of. I am 3000 miles from there anyway. I have an excellent fabricator in our shop but need photos showing where the hitch reinforcement mounts forward of the spare tire well. Do you have any photos of your installation? I would really appreciate it. I pick up the 25 in two weeks and need to get this done.
rocco52, check out this thread, post 4, 3rd photo is of a Q7 I believe. The other photos show the receiver end reinforcements. The attachment point is the same for Touareg/Cayenne/Q7, just further forward for the Q7 due to the extra wheelbase.
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Old 05-22-2015, 06:29 AM   #39
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Yup, Ohiobrits is correct. Third photo is my 2011 Q7 TDI. Can-Am did the work. I did not have the tow package so they installed the rear bumper, hitch receiver and reinforcing strut from the receiver to the plate welded where you see it at the rear axle.
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Old 05-22-2015, 07:07 AM   #40
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Thanks for the info and photos! This will give our shop foreman everything he needs to know. He loves doing "out of the ordinary" things.
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