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Old 06-27-2015, 09:09 AM   #121
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lots of great information

this thread has lots of great information and i thank everyone for sharing your enthusiasm and knowledge.

i have an interest in what is being posted. my daily driver is a 2007 porsche cayman s, my airstream a 1965 caravel and my TV a 2011 BMW X5 diesel.

the porsche is getting brutal to drive daily as i get older and i am looking at other daily drivers with the possibility of towing as well.

how do y'all rate the diesel vs gas as a tow vehicle in both the VW and porsche?

if you were buying used in the 4-5 year old range which of each vehicle would you consider the best ?

how many miles do you realistically think that you can put on these vehicles till it becomes a game of diminishing returns?

one of the reasons i didnt really look at the porsche before was because i assumed that the dealership network to be sparse, and if i was travelling all over the country i felt that may be an issue. is that reasonable thinking? i would assume that the vw network was the strongest. any ideas of audi, vw, bmw and porsche penetration throughout the country?
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Old 06-27-2015, 10:21 AM   #122
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Bit of fun for this "non big truck" crowd. I'm sure folks have seen this before but it's one of those videos I wheel out when my truck buddies start telling me to get a "real" TV.

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Old 06-27-2015, 11:25 AM   #123
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[QUOTE=kevinkatz; how do y'all rate the diesel vs gas as a tow vehicle in both the VW and porsche?[/QUOTE]


As far as diesel v gas, more torque with the diesel will be the main difference although a lot of the more recent gas engines are now turbo and have similar torque values to the diesels and usually much more hp. Torque is what you want for towing though, hp is only relevant (assuming you have 200hp plus) if you like to tow at 90 mph or more, aero drag will likely limit your "progress" at that point.
Fuel economy will be the other significant difference. Diesels will get significantly more mpg hitched and unhitched. Towing my 27FB I get about 17mpg in hilly terrain at 65mph and see around 19mpg at 75mph on the flat.
As far as dealers go, I suspect an Audi or VW dealer would be able to help you out with a lot of minor Cayenne issues. Most big cities have at least one Porsche dealer. About the same for BMW, maybe a bit more widespread, VW as you say probably most widespread. There are also plenty of Independents that will cover Porsche/BMW etc.

The BMW X5 you have is a fine TV. Any reason why you are looking to change?
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Old 06-27-2015, 12:50 PM   #124
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not changing but want another vehicle

thanks for reply.
i love the bmw --it is super comfortable and tows really well. in fact in reviewing used vehicles of this genre it appears as though the bmw x5d is slightly cheaper than the others listed on this thread.
i am thinking of getting rid of the cayman s and replacing it with another vehicle. i would like the towing option and am considering either a cayenne or a toureg. that is the reason for the questions.
the cayenne seems to have many different trim packages so that evaluating it is somewhat confusing.
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Old 06-27-2015, 05:10 PM   #125
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Replies to Multiple Posts....

Vinstream... Thanx on the color info!

Is the R50 designation for the VW "R Line" 5.0 & including other special equipment & options beyond the standard Taureg V10? If built on the Porsche line, does it then also incorporate the Cayenne spec suspension, brakes, etc. as an R50 spec T-reg? Please educate me!

I'm guessing that your T-reg R50 V10 sold for about the same sticker price as a top of the line Cayenne Turbo S with comparable options/standard equipment sets on both - correct?

I agree that the Taureg V10 was an option loaded special vehicle from VW in the Taureg line-up, & will probably end up being one of those highly desirable collectable models featured in the 2025 Vintage Tow Vehicles thread on here, as well as appreciating in value. I'm sure it & the Phaeton will be much like the Westfalias, 19/21/23 window splitty buses, etc. are today - as future high value collector cars!

I would've never expected our 1988 VW Vanagon CamperGL Westfalia which was the most expensive Vanagon at the time & had a $28,000+/- sticker price new (I only paid $22,500-ish thru good negotiating), to be valued today in restored form in the $50-70,000+/- range!

So I strongly recommend that you keep it ...forever... pass it along to kids/etc., & not let it be one of the cars 20+ years from now that you wished you'd kept!


ALL... Notes on V10 5.0 TDI vs V6 3.0 TDI in C/T/Qs:

For those looking for diesel fuel efficiency in the V10 TTDI Tauregs - they were about the same mpg as the Porsche 4.5L V8 & VW 4.2L V8 Gassers - so you're buying them for monstrous torque (see below) & top of the line features.

They were available on Tauregs from 2004-08 & then the VW V6 TDI came out in 2009> I think - the latter of which is the fuel efficient option. But the price premium & added maintenance costs on diesels makes the fuel savings hard to recoup in purchase price, over a V8 gasser even then. So you can find reasonably priced used VW Tauregs from 2009-11, then their prices climb rapidly to the new car levels.

Whereas, Porsche didn't bring their V6 TDI to the US/Can until 2013, so they are still high in the $50-60,000+ range & are even harder to justify the extra $20-30,000 over a 2008-10 Cayenne S gas V8 for towing.

If you're looking new, then the V6 TDI is a relatively cost effective option - over the gas V8's in all 3 - Taureg, Cayenne & Q7 lines - for TV duty.

BTW - I'm using "TTDI" sometimes to reflect that some are "twin turbo diesel injected" - although the general VW/Audi/Porsche parlance is usually just "TDI" in most cases.

For us adding a 3rd car TV & others in a similar situation - it doesn't make sense to spend new car nor recent used prices for a vehicle to sit in our driveway & get used maybe 3-6000 miles per year (currently we only put about 5,200 mi on BOTH our DD cars COMBINED per year).

So the used Cayenne S V8 is our choice poison, although I would jump on a nice low mile Taureg V10 TDI if one came along!


Ohiobrits...

That was the exact YouTube video with Taureg V10 TDI vs. Chevy 2500 HD V8 TDI (I thought it was a Dodge) to which I was referring in my post above! Imagine that type of "pull off" with an AS or vintage kin in tow on a side-by-side drag strip or road course!

I too think that the V8 TTDI Cayenne Turbo Diesel S - the Euro/RoW V8 TDI to which I referred in post #115 - with the air suspension & other usual Porsche tweaks would give Vin's R50 V10 a run for the money performance-wise.

But IIRC the Porsche Cayenne Turbo Diesel S V8 TTDI TQ is about 805 lb/ft, whereas the Taureg V10 TTDI is over 1000 - so that V10 T-reg would still win their pull-off! ... by a shade anyway!


Timhortons...

I agree on the VW fit & finish issues vs. Audi & Porsche! VW's problem is that the bean counters equate "Lux" with more profit, but NOT with commensurate quality & quality control!

I also agree that the brand sharing of platforms increases the ultimate quality & reliability of all sharing a platform, as well as possible parts sharing - or at least in a pinch in Podunk wherever lacking the Audi or Porsche dealership or independent shop, in a pinch!

Yes, the new 2011> Series 3 Cayenne lost about 7-800# also, as did the Tauregs, although perhaps only 5-600# on them.

And yes, that is a different Porsche Tiptronic gearbox - but it too is an 8-spd. You must be thinking of the new 7-spd PDK dual clutch (automatic clutch) stick shift (not really a manual), which was introduced for SUV/CUV use in the new for 2015 Macan line.

The downside on the newest Cayenne S is that the V8 is now a purely Porsche made 3.6L V6 TTI gasser from the Macan Turbo S (Macan S is a purely Porsche 3.0L TTI), so the V8 is now only on Cayenne Turbo & up gasser models. It's got great TQ down to about 1250 or 1850 rpm, so it will be competent, but may tend to run at higher revs while towing, than the prior 4.8L naturally aspirated V8s - especially on grades (& the higher than 55 mph towing speed that we're not supposed to exceed in CA & many other states ;-).

Yes, the Canadian market seems to get "special treatment" when it comes to car pricing. However, I think that if you add on options on the VW & Audi cousins to the comparable Cayenne - which often has a standard set of "included" options or features, which also increase with each sub-model/engine - then some or much of that $10kCAN differential goes away.

Offsetting that with all 3 makers, is when they force you to buy another option or option package, in order to get the ONE option you really want! A rear backup camera is a great example of that BS in our area of needs/wants for towing, & it is beyond me why 3 self-described luxury car makers do not include that feature as standard base equipment on ALL C/T/Q vehicles - period! Bloody stupid IMHO!

Therefore, for anyone looking at the buying one of 3 new, I would strongly suggest listing what equipment & features you really want & need + colors, interior, etc. - then go to each manufacturers' website to use their active "build your car" feature to compare them in actual cost to get your desired "package" between the 3 makes - then go negotiate!

If you really do need the 3rd row added seating - whether for your towing time, or in it's "off duty" time as your "car" - then skip the Cayenne & Taureg, & concentrate on the Audi, & perhaps the 3 row BMW X5 (I don't think the ML350/550/320TDI offers a 3rd row) for your Luxo Euro TV alternatives.

I really didn't research the Audi Q7 option much myself, for several reasons, & these are considerations for other folks looking at the Euro TV options:

1.) We're now empty nesters & don't need a 3rd row seating for a crowd;

2.) We didn't want the extra 10-14" +/- of length the 3rd row requires to further complicate our tight street & driveway situation;

3.) The Audi Q7 weighs more than the other 2 cousins - due to the added weight of that 3rd row & extra body length also reduces the Q7's max. tow rating proprtionately - relative to the ratings of the comparable year/engine Taureg & Cayenne (7716# & 700# on they years we're looking at buying used);

4.) The softer & more compliant ride settings for the Audi, vs. a more sporty & stiffer Cayenne (or Taureg), which is both more fun on a Porsche Club event, but also better resistance in towing use;

5.) We are looking for the smallest possible mid-size SUV with a V8 package due to our tight driveway & street conditions, plus my wife's reluctance to drive anything bigger than "her cute little happy van" (Westy).


kevinkatz...

I've included a bunch of info relevant to your post, in my replies above - intentionally so. Here's some more food for thought...

What I've found in my researching the same "how to service a Cayenne on the road" dilemma, is that there is enough similarity, that a VW or Audi dealer or independent shop could service the Cayenne in a pinch - at least enough to get you to the next big town with a Porsche dealership or Indie shop. The BMW & MBZ franchiises don't have that advantage - & it's even less so for the Land Rovers, to add another Euro TV not mentioned here to date.

There are some parts of the USA & Canada where none of the Euro brands are common even in 2015, so there could be situations where something happens with your X5 or any of these, depending on how actively Murphy's Law is working that day!

In any of the cases for the Euro TVs, I think you're well served to buy to top tier AAA Premier or other roadside assistance plans with the 100, 200, ++ mile towing benefits.

Likewise, the Fidelity Extended Warranty has been recommended to me by several C & T owners for cars not on a CPO, since they apparently underwrite the VW CPO's in the USA (& maybe Audi & Porsche too).

Fidelity Warranty Services - Home Page

As for your target of 4-5 years old, depending on your intended use profile, mileage & how long you'd keep it - I'd suggest that your target age or perhaps new could be broadened a bit.

If you plan to trade in or sell off 2 cars - Cayman & X5 - then you may get your net cost down into used car territory - even on a new Cayenne etc. If you're a car keeper like me, then the drop doesn't really hurt unless you get in an accident in the first few years & insurance only pays you for your depreciated ACV value (my only 2 new cars ever are the 88 Westy & 85 BMW 325e - both of which I still own & the Westy at least is worth more now than new).

However, I don't like to "lose" 20-25-30% of the value when I drive a new car off the dealer's lot, so I personally think that a slightly used 1-2 year old PCNA staff or dealer demo Cayenne is a good option (ditto for VW, Audi, etc.).

I've made my case in this & other similar topics on these Euro haulers, that I think the Cayenne S V8 or GTS/Turbo/Turbo S are the best options for a sportier driving in daily non-tow mode & for car club driving treks, than the others (except that Taureg R50 V10 & V10 comes close, but the newest is 2008).

Likewise, you can look beyond the 4-5 year old window which you mention - & instead broaden it a bit based on some maximum mileage with which you're comfortable driving - given your profile. So the 4-5 year is now a 2010-2011 & soon to be 2011-12 come the Fall 2016 release.

But with the Cayenne for example - the Series 2 2008-10 are all pretty similar, so you could consider any of them under say 40, 50, 0r 60,000 miles - so long as they have documented service records for everything which needs done on them by miles & wear & factory maintenance (same for any make).

If you were to look at <2008 in the C/T/Q trio V8s (V6 & TDI will have their own quirks to verify were fixed too), then you'll need to make sure that the plastic coolant pipes were updated to metal, ignition coils were updated (all 8 of them) per the factory specs & service bulletins, & that the front lower control arms/bushings (@ +/-40-60k miles), & cardan shift/mid-bearing (driveshaft - @ +/-40-100k miles), timing chain tensioners & water pumps (@ +/-40-100k miles) were all done if & when needed (these items are not disimilar to the Cayman/Boxster/996/997 IMS issue, with which I'm sure you're familiar).

Those 2 update issues were all fixed on the 2008> Cayenne V8 models with their new 4.8L, but the other wear items above are still an issue on all C/T/Q models/years.


In addition to the other BMW, MBZ, etc. options - for your relatively light weight 17' AS Caravel - you may also want to consider one of the new Porsche Macans &/or the cousin Audi Q5/S5 - as more of a close match to something between your Cayman & X5 TDI, & possibly more fun in non-TV mode than a Cayenne.

The Macan S (3.0L TTI) & Macan Turbo S (3.6L TTI) & the soon to be released in North America Macan S Diesel (3.0L TTDI out since March 2015 in Europe/UK) are all rated at 4400+ lbs. for towing (don't recall the HW rating), & all have their TQ kicking in low enough at 1250-1850 rpm

I'm not sure about the Audi Q5 ratings & engines, except that their S5 is the closest to the Macan S, so worth looking into as well.

I was able to price out a new Macan S - at about the same expected $45,000+/- starting price as the Macan Diesel - with my desired options for the $52-55,000 range & not far off of a new base Taureg V6 TDI! But my wife wanted more rear storage room, so we went back to the `06-`10/`11 Cayenne S plan (see the 928 comments below).

You'll have less net useful load & cargo room on those Macan/S5 - than on the Cayenne, Taureg & Q7 (latter doesn't seem your style anyway), but they are smaller, lower slung & drive more sports car-like, than the C/T/Q trio.

So I'd suggest doing some research on both your towing & non-towing needs & desires relative to those cars, & then go out & have a bunch of fun test drives - including going out on a test run hitched to your Caravel with any final contenders - to make you decision.

Then you can decide if you want to try new, or at least know more what to try out for the used cars in your 4-5 year old range, & make a used

Also note that I was originally hoping to make a Porsche `86.5 928S or `87-89 928S4 with it's 4200+ lb. tow rating work for our little Avion + more fun classic car GT cruiser 3rd car! .... oh well, I lost that one to my wife's desire for "real back seats & more storage room"!

Pre-89 Porsches can qualify for cheaper classic car insurance with most companies offering it, but only certain ones also allow daily driver level of usage & more miles, so look at several to compare (Panorama, Excellence, Hemmings Sports & Exotics magazines all have ads for those collector car insurance companies).

But you could probably make it work for your Caravel!
...see 928 & Macan pix below - note the factory hitch/connector at the rear shot (Macan sideview was shown at prior post above)....

And before anyone chides me for including the 928 in a Euro SUV topic, the fact is that the Porsche 928 - while a GT - was factory TUV (German DOT) rated to tow 4200+ lbs for travel trailers - only about 200# shy of the new Macan's 4400+ lbs.!

So since there were no pre-2003 versions of the C/T/Q trio - I say that the factory tow rated 1978-95 V8 powered 928 line WAS & IS that predecessor of the pre-SUV/CUV era, & therefore not OT!

Cheers!
Tom
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Old 06-28-2015, 07:02 PM   #126
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Tom, you are a veritable Porsche encyclopedia!

I really like the Macan. I heed to persuade my wife she needs a new car, trade her the Cayenne (which she loves) so I can have the Macan. Pipe dream maybe but that's how the Airstream idea started.....

By the way I'm on my way back from South Carolina today, pulled into a rest stop and there was a Airstream Classic towed by a Ford SuperDuty Powerstroke. The owner immediately came over and asked the usual questions about the TV- "Does it get pushed around?" (no), "How is it on the hills?" (great, 65 mph is no problem on a 5% climb) -"Fuel economy?" (17 average on the hills, 19 on the flat at 75mphClick image for larger version

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ID:	241802), that was the final straw, he yelled for his wife to come over and complained about his 10 mpg. Her comment was priceless - "Well, dear, you are driving a great big truck"......ha, ha...

Seriously though, I will post some impressions of the 1400 mile round trip trip in the next few days. All good, and may help some folks. I also played around with my brake controller setting and will share a few observations there as well.
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Old 06-29-2015, 12:48 AM   #127
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Ohiobrits,

I just know a lot about a few cars - one I own & have for 40 years, & the other I'm looking for as a TV .... and the competitive options for it!

I know what that guy was saying, cuz I only got 7-10 mpg on the gasser V8 3/4T pickups that we've been renting, & the one diesel V8 was only 13-15-ish on mostly flat & gentle grades in SoCal to Central Coast ... & that was no different without the trailer!

Hauling with a big truck vs. a mid-size with a V8 or diesel should really be compared in TV lbs. per HP & TQ - where the 6000-8000# truck will generally lose!

For example, an `06 Cay-S 4.5L V8 is roughly 5000#/340 HP = 14.71#/HP
... but `06 Ford F150 Supercrew 5.4L V8 XLT is 5,406#/300 HP = 18.02#/HP ... hmmm ... 14.7 vs 18 - before hitching the trailer!

& the F150 above is only rated to tow 6500#, GVWR 6,900# & 1,494# max. payload ~ vs. ~
Cay-S is rated to tow 7716#, with a GVWR 6790# & 1840# max payload (less with options in both cases)

& it's roughly the same $20,000+/- price when similarly equipped, as the Cay-S TI with 60,000 mi according to NADA!!

So where is this great big truck benefit!!??

And why do folks assume that a +/- 5000# C/T/Q TV cannot not handle a +/- 6000-7700# TT without being swung around - but a +/- 5000-7000# truck is just fine with a 10,000-20,000 humongous trailer, where the weight differential is the same or higher!!??

Yes - I'm talking trucks here, but only in defense of our C/T/Q's!!

Ohiobrits, your rig has a surprising similarity to Andy's test rig on the link - even down to the White Cay-D! - go to "Hitch Hints" on pg. 6....

RV Lifestyle - Vol. 41 No. 7

BTW to ALL wondering what a C/T/Q trio can tow - the above "Hitch Hints" article was a test evaluation of a 2013? Cayenne Diesel & an AS 30' (not sure of model) by Andy Thompson of CanAm RV in Ontario CAN.

NC is beautiful, although I'm partial to the mountainous parts, since my Mom's side of our family's Cherokee ancestors goes back millennia in the Appalachians! ;-)

Our daughter, hubby & grandson are in the process of moving from Asheville to Charlottesville VA for his new job, after 4 years there.

I look forward to hearing to hearing about your trip & the Cay-D feedback!

So take the wife over to the dealership to test drive the Macan S, Turbo S & Diesel (latter due after Jan. 2016 I think), but then you may still be driving the Cayenne!!

Cheers!
Tom
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Old 06-29-2015, 04:44 PM   #128
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Wow, lots of information that was posted in the past days. Tom, I am looking forward to catching up with what you and others have posted.

Here is my initial first hand report from towing our 25ft FB CCD with our Pepe after new Easylift hitch arrived with mods from CanAm and hitch reinforcement.

Picked up Zeppel2 in Benicia where it also got new shoes (16er wheels and French rubber); also no more wet batteries, we are using 200Ah Li-ion and 200W solar. Btw, stock inverter (1000W) powers a Nespresso Pixie without issues 👍🏼😀

Friday, set up all level (well, Ĺ inch drop in back of tt), we drove about 100miles NE to Ranco Seca Regional Park (camping near an abandoned nuclear power plant &#128526. Towed like a charm! It is definitely there, but no issues accelerating, hardly any sway. We were mostly cruising backroads, only 20 miles highway. 22mpg, I was amazed!

Next day, across the Sierra, up to Lake Tahoe on 50East. Pepe was doing great. Used mostly 5th and 6th gear, no AC as we approached the top. Air temp was 100, cooling temp at 200, did not buckle. Oil temp mainly around 230-245, rarely over 250. Max at 262 after 15 min straight up without any level stretch of road. I maintained 50-60 mph throughout, did not use cruise control. This was higher oil temp than when towing our 20ft zeppel1, where 254 ir so was the all time high up on Tioga Pass.
We camped at a state park near Carson City. 16 mpg for this 140miles stretch.

Next day, long haul. Made some hitch adjustment, trailer now perfectly straight. TV nicely balanced. About 450 miles from Carson City to a state park near Caliente, NV: Kershaw ... State park. Desert roads, little traffic, rolling hills, up and down and up an down, between 4000 and 6500 ft, all at 100 degrees. No issues at all, beautiful drive, we stopped at the Black mailbox, but it seems the mailbox was abducted ??! 👽
18mgp for this leg of the trip.

Today, 2h drive to Snow Canyon SP where we plugged in at 108 degrees. AC is trying hard to bring down the temp, looks futile at the moment. 19 mpg for today, also hilly terrain. The new hitch is now worn in, much easier to lift the chain into the hook. I will look a little at this tomorrow, perhaps another Ĺ chain adjustment. Pepe is doing great. I must say that I am now used to the new setup, know more about how the car and tt feel and react. I am glad that we chose backroads to get here and not the easy route via Bakersfield and Vegas.

No regrets at all and forgotten are the panic days when we thought that we would need a truck.

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Old 06-30-2015, 12:23 AM   #129
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Mirror Extenders VW Touareg

We are very happy with our 2014 Touareg hauling our 2015 Flying Cloud 23FB. But the mirror situation is terrible. The most recommended, locally, are mirrors on rubber straps that are supposed to grip the vehicle's mirror. But because of the curves, they slide over time (not long) and they are very hard to adjust. It can take 10 minutes at the start of each journey, and then they shift anyway.

What suggestions do VW Touareg owners have for extender mirrors, please?

Penny
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Old 06-30-2015, 10:42 AM   #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyinNitwits View Post
We are very happy with our 2014 Touareg hauling our 2015 Flying Cloud 23FB. But the mirror situation is terrible. The most recommended, locally, are mirrors on rubber straps that are supposed to grip the vehicle's mirror. But because of the curves, they slide over time (not long) and they are very hard to adjust. It can take 10 minutes at the start of each journey, and then they shift anyway.

What suggestions do VW Touareg owners have for extender mirrors, please?

Penny
Vancouver, BC
Penny,

Those strap on mirrors are junk & also wobble incessantly, so not worth the trouble! Get a refund!

We have the Hensley McKesh door mounted mirrors which go wider, give a better rearward view, have pads to protect the paint & work perfectly without vibration. We've used them on various trucks & SUVs we've rented as TV while we look for our own Cayenne.

McKesh Mirrors - Hensley Mfg., Inc.

Pic below shows them on an `06 Cayenne S (not ours) ....

Cheers!
Tom
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Tom T
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Old 06-30-2015, 11:12 AM   #131
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Exclamation Cautions about Euro Plastics on Euro TVs

I've had several conversations with my longtime (40 yrs.) Austrian mechanic Hans, who has said several times that - due to higher European restrictions on "Green" car parts - all of the European mfgrs. are using plastics with shorter lives & are designed to decompose more quickly (ostensibly in the dumps).

This results in plastic parts failing sooner than ever before, especially in the high heat cycles of car engines, drivetrains & interiors (yes, that greenhouse hot box too!).

This sounds too much like planned obsolescence to me, & it just cannot be better, than to just make the parts more durable in the first place - so that they won't fail in their intended use & end up in a dump, needing to decompose.

IMHO recycling of durable plastics is a better path to greenness!

Apparently the composition of these Euro plastics is also extremely attractive to rodents eating it!

Hans had to have 2-3 year old BMW X5 totaled by the owner's insurance company, which was in for service where rodents ate the wiring harness while parked outside & the cost to rewire exceeded what insurance would cover without totaling it!!

So this affects even new every few years Euro TV owners!

Again - this is NOT "Green" nor environmentally sensitive, nor "sustainable" - considering all of the energy & resources lost in junking a new or used car due to supposedly green parts failures & consumption by rats & mice!!!!

This may also be the case with newer domestic & Asian brands too, but I'm not sure.

There is also already a huge concern in the classic auto collecting community that the modern electronic components will become non-functional & irreplaceable after the manufacturers no longer have to support those cars' parts (10-15 years in most countries) & the remaining stocks run out. How will we replace or repair old tech computers in these 1990s-2000s cars!?

Now this may not matter to those of you who buy or lease new every 2-5 years, but it is a major longevity & durability concern for those of us who buy used &/or those who keep their cars for a long time.

I keep my cars & keep them up, with my newest being our 1988 VW Westy & our 1985 BMW 325e, plus we're now looking for a used `06-10 Cayenne S which I'll probably keep for many years - so I fit both types above.

Given the above, maybe my maintaining my limited number of cars is actually more "green & sustainable" than the governmental mandated green programs!!??

No "Cheers" here!
Tom
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Old 06-30-2015, 11:36 AM   #132
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Knuff - great info!

Check out the link to the CanAm Hitch Hints article with the Cay-D & 30' AS! .... real similar to yours!

Slowing to 55 would reduce both temps & fuel burn in the heat, plus in CA it's 55 max towing & the Chipos love to stop the Porsches & big fancy trucks! More income for the state, cities & counties! Same in other states with 55 mph max tow speed, but I do miss that target myself.

If you compared the same year as your Cay-D of a comparably equipped top end F150 Diesel with their tow, truck bed shell (Cay has enclosed storage too) & all the stereo, leather & other options comparable to the Cayenne, I think you'd find the price is close - if not the same or more!

I think the lighter V-6 TDI would also win in the Lbs/HP & Lbs/TQ comparison, as in my `06 F150 vs. Cay-S V8 gasser comparison.

In 90+ heat with a minimally insulated "aluminum tube" - you're going to need to run that AC a looong time to get the AS cool! Most of us avoid the desert in summer ... well at least us when we can!

If you can run the AS's AC off the solar/inverter set-up + TV 12V while on the go, then that will help keep it cooler once you get to the campsites.

Also, your lifting chains & 1/2-links story is partly why I prefer & love our Hensley Cub with the tensioning jacks, among many other benefits!

Cheers!
Tom
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Old 06-30-2015, 06:20 PM   #133
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Originally Posted by FlyinNitwits View Post
We are very happy with our 2014 Touareg hauling our 2015 Flying Cloud 23FB. But the mirror situation is terrible. The most recommended, locally, are mirrors on rubber straps that are supposed to grip the vehicle's mirror. But because of the curves, they slide over time (not long) and they are very hard to adjust. It can take 10 minutes at the start of each journey, and then they shift anyway.

What suggestions do VW Touareg owners have for extender mirrors, please?

Penny
Vancouver, BC
Right now I'm just towing the Bambi with the Touareg. When I pull the Flying Cloud, I'm getting a pair of these.
Aero 2 Towing Mirrors 2899
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Old 06-30-2015, 08:40 PM   #134
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Ended up fleeing the 105 heat in St George and drove up to Bryce. 75 and calm. Heat was just not enjoyable in Snow Canyon. Drive was uneventful- first time for longer on the Freeway. I-15 at 70, towed like a charm. No sway at all, even with loads of trucks passing. Seems they read max speed 80 and think they can go as mucho as they can. But i passed them on the steep incline up to Cedar City 😁

19 Mpg for the daily stint. Not bad at all. Now we will stay for about a week in the area before heading back. Hope to see some airstreams in Kodachrome Basin SP, our final destination.
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Old 06-30-2015, 08:50 PM   #135
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Originally Posted by Antique Pedaler View Post
Right now I'm just towing the Bambi with the Touareg. When I pull the Flying Cloud, I'm getting a pair of these.
Aero 2 Towing Mirrors 2899
That looks like what I'm using also, works well. A bit of shake at speed but still very good. You can see all the way down the side of the AS on the drivers side when installed. Nice.

I also installed a wireless rear view camera on the back of the AS which is OK but the mirrors give you most of what you need. The rear view camera is very useful when reversing though - not to see where I'm going per se (use mirrors for that) but to see my wife who is out back giving me hand signals (left, right, the other left, stop, no I really mean STOP etc ). I mounted the screen to the rear view mirror in the TV (temporarily) when towing since the mirror is useless once hitched. Works well, glance at the mirror and see what is behind the AS not what is behind the TV - like magic!
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Old 06-30-2015, 08:52 PM   #136
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Originally Posted by Knuff View Post
Ended up fleeing the 105 heat in St George and drove up to Bryce. 75 and calm. Heat was just not enjoyable in Snow Canyon. Drive was uneventful- first time for longer on the Freeway. I-15 at 70, towed like a charm. No sway at all, even with loads of trucks passing. Seems they read max speed 80 and think they can go as mucho as they can. But i passed them on the steep incline up to Cedar City 😁

19 Mpg for the daily stint. Not bad at all. Now we will stay for about a week in the area before heading back. Hope to see some airstreams in Kodachrome Basin SP, our final destination.
Knuff - great to hear all is going to plan.....
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Old 06-30-2015, 09:04 PM   #137
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Ohiobrits,

Ohiobrits, your rig has a surprising similarity to Andy's test rig on the link - even down to the White Cay-D! - go to "Hitch Hints" on pg. 6....

RV Lifestyle - Vol. 41 No. 7

BTW to ALL wondering what a C/T/Q trio can tow - the above "Hitch Hints" article was a test evaluation of a 2013? Cayenne Diesel & an AS 30' (not sure of model) by Andy Thompson of CanAm RV in Ontario CAN.
Tom, yes I saw the hitch hints a while back. Here are a few photos Phil Tipler at Can-Am sent me when I was asking if a Cayenne Diesel would tow a 23 - Well obviously it can.....

Knuff - I bet the first photo looks just like your modified Eaz-Lift? Nice clean installation. My ProPride by comparison looks much more "busy".
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Old 06-30-2015, 10:24 PM   #138
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Towing Impressions, brake setup, diesel pumps

Here are a few notes from my recent 1400 mile round trip to South Carolina.

Setup - TT fully loaded, full water, about 7000lbs (guess, not weighed), grey and black tanks drained prior to towing.
TV - Cayenne Diesel, me and 2 passengers
Approx 13,000 lbs CW

The route takes us over the Appalachians, nothing to write home about for you folks out west but over here in the east these hills are pretty big (roads crest at about 3200ft). There are several 5% climbs and 5% downhill sections in repeating waves. Not especially long, maybe 5 miles max each.

Typical towing speed on the interstates is between 50 and 75 depending on speed limit and traffic. On the flat I typically tow at 70, if the road is clear and I'm in the mood I'll tow at 75. On hills I will typically go up and down at 65.

Based on Knuff's input about using Sport mode, I gave this a go and like this better that regular auto for the hills for sure. The engine seems to lug less, downshifts sooner and will hold gear downhill once shifted manually. Interesting fact if you are concerned about a "runaway" when going downhill, the Cayenne will hold this 13,000b rig at 65mph on a 5% downhill section when shifted into 5th. No need for brakes (who needs big truck engine braking?).

I think regular auto is probably a bit less annoying on the flat (takes lower gear, less up and down shifts for small grade changes).

I usually use cruise for all interstate sections including inclines. In Sport it does fine in cruise even on the uphill sections. In regular auto I'd find myself downshifting some manually.

The ambients were very hot, 100F in NC prior to getting to the coast and high to mid 80's on the hills. Oil temp on the long climbs reached a max of 262F (Sport, 5th, cruise) at 65mph. If the grade had been longer I probably would have dropped to 60mph as I don't want to see much higher than that. Towing on the flat at 75mph gives an oil temp in the 220s to mid 230s. Stop go traffic in 100+ temps saw oil temps staying low between 210 and 220. This surprised me but the Porsche seems to do a very good job of keeping things cool.

Brake Controller - I posted earlier that I had my max voltage (Tekonsha P3) set at about 6V and Boost 2. I was seeing a lot of front wheel brake dust so did some more testing. I had the wife observe me doing hard stops in a Walmart parking lot and we determined that the TV wheels lock at 9V so we backed it down to 8.8V. This seemed to work well, very little front wheel brake dust i.e. TT brakes are doing the work they should be to stop the TT. Boost 2 is still the setting I like at highway speeds but it is very "grabby" at low speeds now I have max voltage set to 8.8V so I just toggle Boost off when in town (Boost applies a % of max volts as soon as the TV brake peddle is depressed so this is nice at speed to ensure the TT is leading the TV but feels like the TT brakes are being slammed on at low speed).

Overall - still deeply impressed with the Cayenne Diesel as a TV. Immensely capable. I still can't believe just how good it is to be honest. Can-Am told me the Cayenne was a better TV than any vehicle made in the US currently (meaning trucks, I know some of the Euro SUV's are US made). I have no reference point with trucks as a TV but I doubt another set up using a more traditional truck TV would be any better.

One more thing, a bit of an annoyance. You have to be a bit picky about which diesel pumps you fill up at. The Cayenne has an error proofed diesel fill connection. This means that ONLY the newer diesel nozzles will slide in and open the snap closed gate. These newer diesel nozzles are slightly larger diameter that the unleaded nozzles. I found several pumps that still have the old smaller diameter (unleaded) nozzle fitted on the diesel pumps. These will not allow you to insert the nozzle - stops you putting unleaded in but also diesel!. I actually had one guy at a BP garage change the "old", small diameter diesel nozzle for a new larger diameter diesel nozzle whilst I waited. Apparently BP requires that diesel nozzles have back boots, unleaded green (this appears to be different to most other car service garages which are green diesel, back unleaded, truck stops are all black for diesel). His correct diesel nozzle was of course booted in green which was against BP policy but he was losing business so he changed it over. The other point is that the truck stop diesel pump nozzles are often too BIG diameter to fit in. Your best bet therefore is to head for a regular looking pump not a truck stop type pump. If you must use a truck stop type diesel pump, they will sometimes have 1 nozzle with the big "truck" size and one the smaller "car" sized nozzle so try both - you may get lucky - I have twice

Moral of this story - start looking for diesel when you get to about half empty if you will need a fill prior to reaching your destination. Stops you sweating if you can't fill up at the next few gas stations. You can also be more picky about filling up where there is plenty of room to swing up to the pump and get out again without any drama. Most of us are camping because it is fun and relaxing so why get more stressed about it than needed

We are camping again this weekend....only been home a few days and I'm ready to hit the road again Restocked the AS fridge tonight with the essentials, you know, beer.....two more days of work then a long weekend....
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Old 06-30-2015, 11:33 PM   #139
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Great info guys!

Now if we can also get some C/T/Q V8 Gassers to chime in as well!

I've done the Cedar Breaks UT grade & NC Smokies/Appalacians in our `88 Westy many times since `88-now with 4 of us & our stuff - you both would've passed us, even with trailers!


Gas vs Diesel Cayennes -

While I'll give up maybe 4-5 mpg from those diesel numbers with a Cayenne S V8 - I'll also be towing about half the weight (3-3500 wet & loaded), & will avoid all that nasty nozzle surprise BS - as well as the additive regimen.

Up until recently, the diesel around here was 20-30 cents more than Premium gas, so the fuel cost can be the same if/when diesel passes gas prices again.

At the 13-15 mpg my buddy got with his `04 Cay-S & 22' SOB "Hi-Axle Box" running 65-75 at $3.60-3.80-ish Premium vs. 17-19 mpg on Diesel at the then $3.90-4.20-ish (2014 - early 2014 in SoCal) + cost of additive & 2x the engine oil at changes - the diesel operating cost advantage fades quickly!

I think you go diesel for the extra torque to pull a bigger/heavier trailer more easily, rather on cost savings.


Mirrors -

Also - I'd asked another vintage trailer guy early on about those Aero 2 mirrors & a few others - after the strap-on were proven crappy. He had the same vibration problems at speed, so he went to the McKesh & recco'sd them to me. So that's how I got to them & no vibration, plus they extend out further than the Aero 2 & others that connect to the car's mirrors. However, they are more expensive too, but they do get sold used cheaper on "evil-bay" & "Craig's Lost" sometimes.


CanAm Hitch Setup with Ball Backslope -

http://www.airforums.com/forums/atta...4&d=1435719699

I see in this pic link above that Knuff posted above, when blown up full size, that ball back slope or angle which Andy T talks about in his Hitch Hints articles (again in the most recent one not online yet too).

I suppose that with a PP & Hensley it's a moot point, since the ball is enclosed in the articulating head anyway - at the angle required by those units??

Have fun on the road folks!

Cheers!
Tom
///////
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Old 07-01-2015, 07:03 AM   #140
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We couldn't get mirrors for our truck when new. I like the Aero mirrors...saw them on a Cayene at Can Am but with the experiences noted above I'm staying with my McKesh; lots of mirror and easy to extend in tricky back-in campsites. It is also a lot easier to remove just the mirror when trucking around town without upsetting the adjustments.
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