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Old 05-22-2015, 08:16 AM   #41
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No problem. I can snap a few more if you need any additional information. Btw, I am towing a 25 ft International with E-Z Lift 1,000 lb bars and Husky sway control. Couldn't be more happy with the set up. The 3.0 TDI 8 speed is so smooth and powerful. I get 15-16 mpg towing.
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Old 05-22-2015, 10:38 AM   #42
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rocco52, you mentioned on another thread you will look to redistribute weight to reduce tongue weight. I have a thread on "FB Move Batteries to rear" which you should be able to locate which details my mod to do just that for my 27FB. There are some actual weights in the thread that I measured for various modification scenarios. You may find it useful. As folks noted on your other thread, don't reduce tongue weight too much or you will have sway issues.
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Old 05-22-2015, 01:30 PM   #43
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Soon to be Cay-S owner

Great thread from the non-big-truck-only crowd.

I started a similar one seeking input from other Cayenne owners earlier this year, before deciding to seriously look & pull the trigger on a well maintained "gently used low mile" 2006-10 V8 powered Cayenne S. I can't see ever recouping $20-30K in the extra cost for a 2013-14 Cay-TDI in the extra mpg for a TV which we'll use a few times a year towing & as a 3rd car, so a nice used Cay-S with a normally aspirated V8 for our 3000# +/- Avion will be more than adequate! ;-)

We'd hoped to be Cayenne S owners in time for the big Pismo Beach CA vintage trailer rally last weekend, & had several great prospects back in Jan-Feb, but my aunt got sick in hospital etc. & passed a couple of weeks ago (she had no kids so I've been next of kin in charge of stuff).

So I'll have to restart the search in a few weeks when I get caught back up.

Our rig was set up for initially towing with various rented TVs & maybe eventually a mid-size SUV - so I set it up with:

1. a Tekonsha RF wireless brake controller - essentially an A-frame mounted Tekonsha Prodigy with a wireless controller handset that plugs into the cab's 12v outlet/cigarette lighter & eliminated reaching for the under-dash box brake boost button, since it sits at hand in my lap!

2. a Hensley Cub WD/AS hitch (their smaller 6000# & 600# HW unit which sells for $1300-1700) - & I'm 100% pleased with it's operation in towing & that all WD gear stays on the TT & no levering up spring-bar chains!

AS for the back half of our rig - the Avion T20 is 21'-6" L with the 4" square rear bumper, plus the Hensley adds it up to about 22'-6"; & it was listed by factory docs as 2680# & my calculations on changes by the PO's restoration/mods & fluids/capacities & all our stuff inside puts it at about 3000-3500# GTTW, with a known 340" HW on my new Sherline scale. I still need to catch time at a CAT scale for actual weight, after I can complete a few other mods which may change the GTTW &/or HW &/or distribution, latter 2 mainly by the customized folding rear cargo rack for the trailer spare & our bikes mounting to the trailer's rear bumper.

We've been renting since we got our restored vintage kin Avion T20 in July 2012 - including Ford F150 & F250, Dodge 2500 with V8 gassers & diesel, & Nissan Pathfinders with 4.0L V6s - but the trucks just don't fit in our narrow 1921 driveway space & narrow streets well, nor will my wife drive them - so the mid-size V8 SUVs became our target audience & finally zoned in on a used Cayenne S.

While the 2008-10 Cayenne S has the metal coolant pipe upgrade from the start & other upgrades in that Series 2 (or 1.5) version - we really like the 2006 continuation series Titanium Edition only & limited production "Iceland Silver" paint color (a light silver-blue metallic) only available for the June-Jan 2006 extended run of the Series 1 Cay-S - so I have to be careful to check that the coolant pipe & other upgrades were done on those.

For those unaware, unlike VW producing the 2007 Tauregs - Porsche elected to just extend Series 1 production of the 2006 as that Titanium Edition fully loaded with a bunch of options, & only available in Black, Red, Dark Blue Metallic or Iceland Silver paint, with either Grey/Black or Tan/Black 2-tone interiors. My guess is that these limited production models may have the best chance to eventually go up in value later on as collectable Porsches - with that least common Iceland Silver being more rare, & since I tend to keep my cars forever - our kids may be able to recoup the purchase price in 20 years! LOL

I'll report back more on the forum once we have it & run for a while.

Cheers!
Tom
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Old 05-23-2015, 06:58 AM   #44
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Very cool thread, and tons of useful information. Thank you, everybody.

We need more space than the Touaregs and Porsches can provide us with, but it's still great to see how well these cars tow.
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Old 05-23-2015, 09:09 AM   #45
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Thanks Ohiobrits, I will check that out. I think that I am going to buy a Sureline tongue weight scale and experiment. One quick thing I thought of was moving the spare tire to a mount on the rear bumper. Or simply putting it in a carrying bag and putting it under the dinette when driving. A portable generator or two, as some posts have suggested, can be carried there as well. We are excited to pick it up!
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Old 05-23-2015, 06:33 PM   #46
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rocco52, the Sherline works well but is a bit difficult to get repeatable measurements in my experience. Useful to gauge relative changes as you move stuff around but I'd recommend a few trips over a CAT scale to fine tune. Having said that, I did use one to collect the weights in the thread I mentioned so I could decide where I wanted the batteries and what change in tongue weight that would result in. I found setting it up on a trolley jack with a piece of wood on the cup on the jack and another on the top pad on the Sherline worked best. It was very sensitive to side loads.

I replaced my 15"wheels with 16" wheels and Michelin LT tires and do not carry a spare for the TT anymore. I carry a full size spare for the Cayenne plus a small Volcano barbecue under the dinette. My tongue weight was down to 650lbs (from 900lbs) with an Eaz-lift, batteries in the rear, AS spare deleted and the items I mentioned above in the rear of the AS (CAT scale verified). I now use a ProPride so tongue weight is about 750 fully loaded. It tows beautifully with 3 people in the Cayenne plus our dog.
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Old 05-24-2015, 08:24 AM   #47
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Ohiobrits, where did you put the batteries? I thought about building a nice looking battery box on the rear bumper some how. I didn't think it was a good idea to have them in the living space due to venting.
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Old 05-25-2015, 08:04 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rocco52 View Post
Ohiobrits, where did you put the batteries? I thought about building a nice looking battery box on the rear bumper some how. I didn't think it was a good idea to have them in the living space due to venting.
rocco52, I replaced the lead acid batteries with sealed AGM's which are OK for use inside the coach. Thread is here. Post 89 has some photos of the installed location in the storage area under the dinette.
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Old 05-29-2015, 05:06 PM   #49
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The controversy is resolved.....yes a Touareg TDI can pull a 25' AS. We're in the process of pulling our 2012 25' International CCD with our 2014 VW Touareg TDI (3 litre turbo diesel & 8 speed transmission) and she has maintained either 65 mph (or 60 on the steepest grades) all through the mountains. The coolant temperature has maintained steady at 200 degrees and we could have always driven faster had we wanted to. Obviously, we haven't tried any panic stops so I can't report on this item.

We're using a Ez-Lift Elite WD hitch with two anti-sway devices. It was setup by Can-Am. The hitch was also reinforced by them.

In summary, if anyone tells you, "you can't tow that trailer with that small VW", please feel free to correct them!
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Old 05-31-2015, 06:43 PM   #50
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This is a great thread for those of us who need to use the TV for both towing and daily use. I bought a 2014 TDI and have been planning to buy an airstream, hopefully only once.

Today I pulled the trigger! I had been ready to purchase a 25FB but the Mrs. liked the 27FB a hair better. The 2015 International 27FB has a posted tongue of 770 lbs vs the 25FB Cloud of 837 so I save some tongue weight. I had the dealer take the 30 lb steel propane bottles and I will supply 2 20 pound aluminum bottles at the time of pick up in a couple of weeks (saves 40 pounds). He is replacing all of the ducted air vents with the directional vents for the 2 steel bottles.

I will be up at CAN AM getting the hitch worked on and the T3 brake controller installed. I will likely look for some more weight reduction opportunities as well.

Hopefully you will not mind some newbie questions related to my Touareg as I get set up.

Mike
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Old 06-06-2015, 05:33 PM   #51
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So quite some development on our side. I mentioned that we were towing our 20FC with our Cayenne Diesel and Equalizer 1000lb WD hitch without issues.

Went to Bay Area Airstream Adventures yesterday to pick up our new 25FB international and when the tech saw the sticker on our hitch receiver, he called his boss over and they ultimately refused to hitch up the trailer. Liability issues and honestly they are probably just protecting their business. We ended up taking their truck rental for over the weekend maiden voyage but wife and I are now really thinking hard about our options.

1) just insist on hooking up the Airstream myself and play with balancing the load, ignoring the max tongue weight to be almost 200lb over the limit.

2) doing (1) and have the hitch reinforced according to Andy's specs.

If we do this, there is still the liability issue. My wife's argument is that she will never be able to relax when on the road. Last year, we towed >15,000 miles, so it is not that we are just using the Airstream around our neighborhood. If we cause an accident and someone gets hurt, we would be in deep sh.t.

This actually leaves us with the ultimate 1st world problem of biting the bullet and to trade the cayenne. But all options that we looked at today are butt ugly. I really do not like the look of any truck - they are useful, but it will be difficult. We looked into the Nissan Armada: nicest one of all options but quite exotic SUV; not many readily available. F150: if safety is our main concern, probably the most reasonable choice. From all the trucks, I liked the Tundra off road version most; perhaps something to get used to. The Toyota Sequoia would be the next option; at least not a truck. We might have a look at the Landcruiser as well; would be an expensive swap though and I have not looked at tongue weight on this one.

Did not think that this is going to happen and we are now pretty confused and really not sure what to do.

This said, we have reservations for a 2 week trip to Nev, Utah, Arizona starting in 3 weeks, so we need to make a decision pretty soon.

Arghhh...
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Old 06-06-2015, 06:11 PM   #52
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We have been happy with the Infiniti QX80, towing 25 and now 27 foot units, if you are looking for Large SUV options. Here it is with the 27 EB. Joe. Click image for larger version

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Old 06-06-2015, 06:25 PM   #53
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What's the tongue weight rating on the Infinity?
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Old 06-06-2015, 07:12 PM   #54
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Knuff, thanks for starting this thread. I was actually at Bay Area airstream today and I noticed what must have been your cayenne in the garage. My salesperson was showing me some add ons that owners have done in the indoor storage area. I thought it was peculiar that a suv with extended mirrors was sitting there. Also looking at a 25ft model and now concerned we need to rethink our TV choice. Did they say they can do any modifications to get them comfortable with hitching up?
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Old 06-06-2015, 07:19 PM   #55
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Quote:
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What's the tongue weight rating on the Infinity?

1275 lbs w/ WD, 850 dead weight. Joe


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Old 06-06-2015, 07:23 PM   #56
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No, the Airstream people were careful about making any kind of suggestions. When they set up a TV, they check the sticker with the specs on the hitch receiver and also the user manual, just in case. Our Cayenne has a 630lb tongue weight rating (I originally thought it would be closer to 770lb as it seems to be the same factory Westfalia build system found in the Touareg).

I was tempted to return the F150 today and pick up our Cayenne, hook it up myself and tow the Airstream back tomorrow just to get a feel, but wife was against it.

Ultimately, I am convinced that the Cayenne has no issues with power and that the hitch will be ok, but what is really the point that is bothering me is the liability.

Even if CanAm can do something magic, will they give me something in writing that the 'new' rating exceeds the 830lb tongue weight needs of the 25FB?

Perhaps it is time to give Andy a call next week...
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Old 06-06-2015, 07:27 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eonicks View Post
Knuff, thanks for starting this thread. I was actually at Bay Area airstream today and I noticed what must have been your cayenne in the garage. My salesperson was showing me some add ons that owners have done in the indoor storage area. I thought it was peculiar that a suv with extended mirrors was sitting there. Also looking at a 25ft model and now concerned we need to rethink our TV choice. Did they say they can do any modifications to get them comfortable with hitching up?

Actually our salesperson mentioned that they have one customer towing a 25ft with a Cayenne and i asked whether they can contact the person to give him our email address. Have not heard from the guy yet. I specifically asked about his setup.
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Old 06-06-2015, 11:36 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knuff View Post
So quite some development on our side. I mentioned that we were towing our 20FC with our Cayenne Diesel and Equalizer 1000lb WD hitch without issues.

Went to Bay Area Airstream Adventures yesterday to pick up our new 25FB international and when the tech saw the sticker on our hitch receiver, he called his boss over and they ultimately refused to hitch up the trailer. Liability issues and honestly they are probably just protecting their business. We ended up taking their truck rental for over the weekend maiden voyage but wife and I are now really thinking hard about our options.

1) just insist on hooking up the Airstream myself and play with balancing the load, ignoring the max tongue weight to be almost 200lb over the limit.

2) doing (1) and have the hitch reinforced according to Andy's specs.

If we do this, there is still the liability issue. My wife's argument is that she will never be able to relax when on the road. Last year, we towed >15,000 miles, so it is not that we are just using the Airstream around our neighborhood. If we cause an accident and someone gets hurt, we would be in deep sh.t.

This actually leaves us with the ultimate 1st world problem of biting the bullet and to trade the cayenne. But all options that we looked at today are butt ugly. I really do not like the look of any truck - they are useful, but it will be difficult. We looked into the Nissan Armada: nicest one of all options but quite exotic SUV; not many readily available. F150: if safety is our main concern, probably the most reasonable choice. From all the trucks, I liked the Tundra off road version most; perhaps something to get used to. The Toyota Sequoia would be the next option; at least not a truck. We might have a look at the Landcruiser as well; would be an expensive swap though and I have not looked at tongue weight on this one.

Did not think that this is going to happen and we are now pretty confused and really not sure what to do.

This said, we have reservations for a 2 week trip to Nev, Utah, Arizona starting in 3 weeks, so we need to make a decision pretty soon.

Arghhh...
We picked up our new 25Fb in Boise Idaho today and towed it home to Salt Lake City with our 2015 Q7 TDI. Absolutley amazing! I used a Blue Ox 1000 Tow Bar and moved as much weight to the back of the trailer as possiblel, spare tire, generator, tools, everything I could think of. I had weighed everything before we left home to go get it. Using linear math I figured tongue weight was about 695 lbs. A little over the 661 listed but close. I am going to get AGM batteries and move them under the rear dinette at some point.
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Old 06-07-2015, 06:28 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rocco52 View Post
We picked up our new 25Fb in Boise Idaho today and towed it home to Salt Lake City with our 2015 Q7 TDI. Absolutley amazing! I used a Blue Ox 1000 Tow Bar and moved as much weight to the back of the trailer as possiblel, spare tire, generator, tools, everything I could think of. I had weighed everything before we left home to go get it. Using linear math I figured tongue weight was about 695 lbs. A little over the 661 listed but close. I am going to get AGM batteries and move them under the rear dinette at some point.
Let me clarify, the hitch rating is 661#. The trailer weighs 5500#. I added 250# of gear and 250# of water. so the trailer tongue weight was above 10%. I will also remove one of the propane tanks. It does not use very much propane this time of year and that drops the tongue weight by about 45# also.
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Old 06-07-2015, 10:01 AM   #60
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I recommend you speak with Andy Thompson at Can-Am RV Centre about your situation and get his advice. I think I read that there is someone in CA who does Can-Am style hitch reinforcements. FWIW, I had a local hitch mechanic tell me I had to have a pickup with 4 wheel rear axles to pull my trailer. Most people just don't have a command of the facts cause it is hard to get.
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