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Old 05-05-2010, 09:16 PM   #361
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What's a VO? Isn't that alcohol? I said your forums because it is the forums that has appointed you to act as a moderator. To disclaim the forum is a bit disingenuous. I am not implying it belongs to you. If anyone thought that I was, I was not. Is that what you thought I meant? Was there anything else specifically you wanted me to address in "my" paragraph? Oh and so everyone knows...that paragraph isn't mine. I am just quickly referencing it as mine because you were addressing me by name in that paragraph.

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Old 05-05-2010, 09:24 PM   #362
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silvertwinkie View Post

LI, you are one unique individual. I mean, I really like you. You peak my curiosity, but you spend your days, time and money to do it better than Greg or WBCCI has


Greg do it better, how he has no traffic.

Greg spend money, for what to advertise airstreams for free

Wbcci does a better forum currently there are 4 yes four members viewing?
This form has over 600, yep when you're right you're right they do a better forum......maybe in a cemetery. That forum is DEAD

They hire U a non member?



.
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Old 05-05-2010, 09:31 PM   #363
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LI Pets View Post

What R U smoking dude?

.
Obviously nothing as strong as you appear to be partaking in.... It's an apples to oranges comparison. This forum has been around for over 7 years. That forum, in it's current state, less than a year. If after 5 years it's the same, you might have some point. So you want to add to your suit the operation of that donated forum? Please e-pass what you're smokin', I'd love to try the more powerful stuff. BTW, I was not hired, I volunteered. Hired seems to indicate I am being compensated, which is not true....and yes, if you can do it better, please by all means show us all the way Captain.

Side note, Howie's lawsuit thread was moved to the private area.
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Old 05-05-2010, 10:01 PM   #364
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I am missing your points Carol. My WBCCI forum? Not. You and the VO talking ethics is hysterical. If I had a buck for every distortion, theft of image, mail lists and anything else I've read in various places from the VO which you are clearly a part of, I could retire.... I mean really, the VO is totally disorganized. LI says one thing, Howie another, Leo another, Rob, Frank are on a different page than the rest and you go where the wind blows. Frank disagrees, gets piled on buy folks who feel similarly. Many times folks don't agree with the VO, they get piled on. I truly feel I should be the least of y'all's worries.
Odd how someone who thinks they should be the least of our worries just happens by out of the blue to post, assumedly not to be taken notice of then? I don't know that we are so worried as we are courteously answering your posts.

While the WBCCI forums is not your forums, I am to be clearly part of all parties and actions named. OK. I'll own it, unlike you and your affiliation or non-affiliation.

I believe you are confused to assume that supporters' collective power is diminished because we are individuals and do not present conformity of thought.

As far as debating ethics and opinions that's a loop that never ends for you and me. But again, I ask you why the sudden appearance and posting of Leo's March 4th communication more than two months prior? What was the significance and what reaction were you courting?
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Old 05-05-2010, 10:18 PM   #365
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Originally Posted by wheel interested View Post
I'll own it, unlike you and your affiliation or non-affiliation.

I believe you are confused to assume that supporters' collective power is diminished because we are individuals and do not present conformity of thought.
What exactly do you mean by my affiliation or non-affiliation? For the record, what exactly is your affiliation today, as a fellow non-member?

I never said the "collective power" was diminished. I simply stated what I perceive as a fact, that the VO (vocal opposition-- not to be confused with the alcoholic beverage) is in fact divided, in some cases, more than most realize. Some don't even get along, which is part of what I took by Leo's comments about TAC and how folks piled on Frank, who is also trying to do something different, along the lines of the true core of what you all are also trying to achieve, but without litigation. I didn't realize there were time sensitive regulations as to when to post this or any info to allow the reader to draw their own conclusions as part of the ongoing topic.
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Old 05-05-2010, 10:33 PM   #366
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Of course there is no time constraints but I still don't know why you selected that post at this time. Now it's me that is missing something. So you have part of a back scenes discussion that wasn't intended to be posted here. I suppose if you made a point it would be evident as to why you did it.

The inference is that this one does this this one does or says that, disorganized was your word. And now my word, "so?" Together we can still make a difference.

You either are affiliated with the WBCCI forums or you have decided not to be affiliated with the WBCCI forums, not your forums you said. As my affiliation is with Save Wally, also as you said.

If you don't want to say why you posted or want to have a reply fine then I will leave you to your posting and wonder what that was all about. No harm no foul. Just a mystery. Thanks for stopping by. ???

Rob and Frank requested a refund because Rob was offended with the forum censorship. We have all been offended by WBCCI censorship and worse. Why is that the better or only course to pursue? You do as you want and we can do what we want and some time people get guff when they are perceived to be trolling. That's all I can think to tell you.
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Old 05-05-2010, 10:46 PM   #367
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Originally Posted by wheel interested View Post
The inference is that this one does this this one does or says that, disorganized was your word. And now my word, "so?" Together we can still make a difference.

I mean you either are affiliated with the WBCCI forums or you have decided not to be affiliated with the WBCCI forums, not your forums you said. As my affiliation is with Save Wally, also as you said.
If you all think you can, great, I'm not of the belief that the path some have taken or claim to be taking is the best course of action. I know far smarter folks than I, with law experience have also voiced concerns about certain talked about courses of action.

I have never wavered. I am a volunteer participant and frequent both this site and the WBCCI site. If you look at my posts from around September I openly said I'd support both this site and the WBCCI site, so how you draw any conclusion that I have totally disassociated myself from either is an incorrect perception. Neither this site or the WBBCI site are "my" forums. I had a forum that you were a part of....that was "my" forum. On both this forum and the WBCCI forum, I voluntarily participate sharing my viewpoints as we all do. I am not paid to participate in either and have no monetary connection or ownership to either. That is what I meant by not "my" forum.

However on one topic, Carol, I will fully agree, it's been a long night and I'm outta here for the night. Catch you all tomorrow.
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Old 05-06-2010, 07:18 AM   #368
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My thread was gone by 10:40 last night. I am sorry I did not copy it so I could now post it here so you could see the level of censorship they exercised. It was a statement of fact that the suit was under way and that Metro was in the lead.
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Old 05-06-2010, 07:26 AM   #369
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Originally Posted by HowieE View Post
My thread was gone by 10:40 last night. I am sorry I did not copy it so I could now post it here so you could see the level of censorship they exercised. It was a statement of fact that the suit was under way and that Metro was in the lead.
Again, Howie, you jump to conclusions and post information to your slant, without knowing or caring about the facts, and once again, didn't take the time to read (or possibly comprehend) the most recent posts on this thread which would have answered where your post went, what is allowed in the private and public area, etc. It's telling and ironic that I called it last night that you'd be here first thing complaining about your post because I knew you'd not take the time to read or digest the posts made by a number of folks prior (which is why I posted the info in posts 368 and 371 here).

If you'd like, you can sign in over on the WBCCI form, if you are a current WBCCI member, you and other WBCCI members can in fact see the post. I will say that the consensus was that the link to DW (as it was inappropriate) would be removed and it was, but the post and your re-registration (after requesting your prior registration be canceled) stand as is, active, viewable and accessible. Due to your recent new re-registration it is entirely possible you may have not been once again placed into the member only area of the forum. If that is the case, and it is not done automatically, I would ask that you PM Charlie (cburke) on the forum and Charlie will in fact add you to that area so that you can access your post and post more so long as it follows the TOS.
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Old 05-06-2010, 07:50 AM   #370
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Twinkie

I did in fact get a PM stating the thread had been moved.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cburke
Your post regarding the pending "lawsuit" against the club is a duplicate of a thread started some time ago in the Members Only areas.
Your post has been merged with that thread.
Unfortunately I, as one of limited capacity, can not find the Members Only area of that forum. Please advise with directions.
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Old 05-06-2010, 07:51 AM   #371
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Very important for credibility that one look before one leaps, that one check out one's facts BEFORE STATING THEM PUBLICLY, etc., etc.

There are some very legitimate issues here, guys---you really don't want them disregarded because readers can't be sure of the legitimacy of what you are saying, do you? This is not the time for impulsivity and shooting-from-the-hip.

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Old 05-06-2010, 08:30 AM   #372
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Thumbs down

Bottom line is the wbcci forum was misrepresented to the IBT, Leo brought to their attention at their request how the whole thing worked.

A used AS dealer had C Burkes ear and convinced them to run it outside the club.

IMO

It's a disgrace to a club of this size to have advertising all over the place selling AS.
It's wrong that you need to register to read a club forum.
It's wrong that non member moderate member biz.
It's wrong that trademarks are claimed that don't exist.

The forum is included in the complaint.
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Old 05-06-2010, 08:46 AM   #373
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Your upsets are clearly heard, Bob, but it is still important that you be careful before you press Submit Reply. It's not just you and your issues, but those of many others, that you are affecting when you are not clear on your facts before you present them. That may come back to bite you in the ass.

I continue to be absolutely STUNNED at the level of disclosure here about a federal lawsuit THAT HAS YET TO BE FILED! You apparently are NOT going to be a party to this complaint, yet disclose to a pretty great extent, IMO, what will be contained in it.

Having been to that rodeo, it is inconceivable to me that the attorneys are allowing this.

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Old 05-06-2010, 09:25 AM   #374
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Please don't worry about my butt.

Anything stated herein is breadcrumbs.
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Old 05-06-2010, 09:32 AM   #375
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Maggie

I address your attention to the first post in this thread the last line
"Your thoughts suggestions and opinions are welcome we must stand together to
SAVE the WBCCI"

This thread is an open discussion meant to advise others of the problems facing the Club and to solicit ideas and comments relating to those problems. This is a get the information out thread. Once a Lawyer has taken control I am sure you, as one that claims to have been involved it legal matters, will acknowledge comments from those involved will take a completely different tone.

At this point in time we are relegated to fending off hecklers and attempting to correct misinformation with crossing the line that would aid and comfort the opposition.
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Old 05-06-2010, 09:48 AM   #376
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Silvertwinkie with the agenda?

Please somebody tell me this:
Is Silvertwinkie a moderator or somehow connected with the WBCCI Forum?
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Old 05-06-2010, 09:51 AM   #377
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Joe yes he's a moderator, but not a WBCCI member.

and since the wbcci forum owner is banned here perhaps his sock puppet

So he governs members posts
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Old 05-06-2010, 10:18 AM   #378
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Quote:
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Maggie

I address your attention to the first post in this thread the last line
"Your thoughts suggestions and opinions are welcome we must stand together to
SAVE the WBCCI"

This thread is an open discussion meant to advise others of the problems facing the Club and to solicit ideas and comments relating to those problems. This is a get the information out thread. Once a Lawyer has taken control I am sure you, as one that claims to have been involved it legal matters, will acknowledge comments from those involved will take a completely different tone.

At this point in time we are relegated to fending off hecklers and attempting to correct misinformation with crossing the line that would aid and comfort the opposition.
You miss my point, completely, but I've said what I wanted to---so there. You can't save people from themselves. (old social work proverb)


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Old 05-06-2010, 10:43 AM   #379
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It feels like folks are missing the forest for the trees. The WBCCI "forum" is just another symptom of a larger issue. By the way, moderation of a private forum--here or there--isn't censorship, at least not in a legally actionable way. From the Harvard Law Review (McSwain):

"Because the First Amendment acts as a shield against state — not private — conduct, private actors are generally free to censor speech with impunity.94"

Now, just because heavy-handed moderation is legal doesn't mean it's a bright idea. This isn't the era of rotary phone and the six-cent stamp. In the digital age, people (and data) flow around obstacles. If people can't write freely on the WBCCI forum, they'll find another venue (like here). In the long run, attempts to control and manipulate information almost always backfire.

As for the legal action, it seems clear that both on people sides have a personal investment in the outcome. This is one of the reasons we have lawyers, to act as dispassionate advocates. It's also one of the reasons I doubt the lawsuit will really accomplish what either side wants. Once something becomes personal, a legal action becomes about "winning" and "losing" rather than achieving the best solution for the greatest good.
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Old 05-06-2010, 10:51 AM   #380
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Careful LI, that "puppet" comment could be considered somewhat of a slanderous comment......and is out of line...moreover, I do not govern members .
Not in your case it's a compliment, I also said "perhaps"

On this forum you are allowed to state your opinion unlike forums.wbcci
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