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Old 05-13-2010, 02:28 PM   #461
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Originally Posted by doug&maggie View Post
What are members getting now and what would they get with a full time and presumably paid position?
I'll tell you what I got from Fred Richardson yesterday. I received an e-mail to renew my 2009 membership. And I think I will. Dang I wish it didn't cost so much or that the majority of the funds is going you know where! All I ask is to keep my number, have access to the BB online and to pay my way to parks and rallies as I am able to attend. Dues are too high to merely be an entry in a database unless you get reembursed travel and fees, dinners, gifts, and free monthly parking at the International and party at the Mid-Winter. Where one would expect discounts, one is confronted with gouging! Ouch! Sky Med discount, yeah right. Anyone price that special member discount premium? Sure takes your mind off the amount spent on club dues...And then to charge 60 dollars per child at rallies, shame.

As part of the WBCCI family, do you think I am one of the black sheep? I am glad they miss me. I feel kind of all warm and gushy inside.
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Old 05-13-2010, 04:09 PM   #462
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Carol,

Your whole post was well stated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wheel interested View Post
How about this? ........
I get that a number of you disagree with the action and think we can only fail but as with Job's good buddies, we will just have to tune your reasoning out to curse the club and quit and have some faith to see us through the turbulent times.
What annoys me the most these folks aren't members yet they hope we fail

Why don't you dissenters read this

Because of the generous support it has garnered, the lawsuit will proceed as planned.



.


.
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Old 05-13-2010, 04:20 PM   #463
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Carol

Great Job

Gee. I am a member and this is the letter I got. This could be waiting for you or any other member that cars enough to go on the record with comments regarding the direction of the Club.

Of the close to 4,000 e mail that went out giving notice of this action less than a dozen complaints came in. On the other hand a significant number responded financially and with comments of support. Well over a hundred individuals and a Club Unit to date.

Now if anyone wants to look into this a bit further open your directory to page 2 and read the statement as to the use of the information contained in the directory. I read that as member to member is acceptably use of the directory
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Old 05-13-2010, 04:38 PM   #464
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Gee Howie, you are special. You got another club perk with a personal touch. Just teasing. I am glad you have given us updates and the effort to include fellow members on the potential they can have in the club has not been thwarted. In the face of past retributions I thank you for sticking your neck out on the chopping block on behalf of both the vocal and the silent members of WBCCI.

The entire reason for the directory is to be able to contact one another. I think you have caught them in but another effort to try to make it all go away and to remain in denial. It was so dubious and flat out unwise to have lost two super rallies such as the Wally Byam Birthday Bash and the Pocono Rally. Two great events to be well attended and certain to inspire more participation and interest in Airstreaming. Instead they throw money at promotion. How about "do no harm?" That alone might go a long way to promote the WBCCI.
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Old 05-13-2010, 05:48 PM   #465
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Got this PM in response to my above post.

Howie,

Heck, I think you ought to feel insulted. They hired Garmhausen to send you a lawyer letter (by email, no less!) rather than sending this "copyright violation" matter down to Dinsmore and Shohl, their usual IP firm. Being a country attorney in Sidney, Ohio I imagine Garmhausen works a little cheaper than Dinsmore and Shohl. (Gamhausen's granddaddy was Wally's attorney in Ohio. Nice to have legacy clients.)

Pretty wimpy demand letter, too. Doesn't even threaten to sue you.

Just out of curiosity, you going to reply noting that you are a member and therefore most definitely an "approved licensee" as stated in the copyright notice? And you can send your "personal correspondence" to anybody you damn please. Be interesting to hear what they have to say to that.

Cheers,


Yes I was insulted when it came in but then again after I printed and framed it and hung it in the bathroom in my trailer no one will ever know it came in via e mail. It is now just a inspirational reminder at a time when I need one.

I think the difference is you have to do something at a WBCCI event to warrant the use of the Big Guns. Then they have grossly overspent the legal budget already this year and may be implementing fiscal responsibility as they did by changing to plastic bases on the trophies to be given out from now on.
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Old 05-13-2010, 06:54 PM   #466
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all day long I look forward to reading this thread. thank you all for so much entertainment...

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Old 05-13-2010, 07:32 PM   #467
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Old 05-13-2010, 08:11 PM   #468
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It would appear as though getting "the lawyer letter" has become a badge of honor! If and when I ever get one, I too was going to hang it in the rear of the trailer.
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Old 05-14-2010, 05:59 AM   #469
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Quote:
What annoys me the most these folks aren't members yet they hope we fail.
It is one thing to doubt an endeavor will succeed. It is another to wish that it will fail. The WBCCI has never done anything to me (or for me, for that matter). Perhaps an analogy will help, Bob. This thread is about the "hammer" of litigation, but I don't see the WBCCI's problems as a "nail."

You can assert that it's terribly impolite for me (and others) to post on this thread, asking impertinent questions about the proposed lawsuit. On the other hand, I can assert that you (and others) are asking members of the Airstream community to underwrite the litigation... and that the interests of our community are best served by the free and open exchange of ideas on the subject.

My impression is that some WBCCI members are frustrated by the IBT. These members have been unable to break the leadership stranglehold, so they are engaged in America's real pastime... suing the *******s. OK, but I still don't see where the lawsuit--even if successful on every count--(which I doubt it will be) fixes the fundamental problems facing the WBCCI.

Listen, Bob, you don't need to convince me, but there are folks reading this thread, starting to notice that you aren't answering the tough questions.
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Old 05-14-2010, 06:22 AM   #470
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ok, I want you first to tell us what ALL the fundamental problems facing the WBCCI are?
Then we can answer your question perhaps

As a non member I'm sure your opinion on this will be interesting,
at the same time explain why aren't you a member.
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Old 05-14-2010, 06:54 AM   #471
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Originally Posted by hampstead38 View Post

Listen, Bob, you don't need to convince me, but there are folks reading this thread, starting to notice that you aren't answering the tough questions.
Another great point. It's been over 60 days since this thread started. Lots of talk, little action other than trying to win the hearts and minds..... just when may we see this major offensive begin? My guess is that at the current rate of action, December 21, 2012, if at all.

As Frank said earlier, it's great entertainment.
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Old 05-14-2010, 08:01 AM   #472
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Framed

My 5 pages with a 1 page follow up is framed and hanging in my office... all other WBCCI stuff will be sold off at the Bash Flea Market...

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Quote:
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It would appear as though getting "the lawyer letter" has become a badge of honor! If and when I ever get one, I too was going to hang it in the rear of the trailer.
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Old 05-14-2010, 08:02 AM   #473
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Twink - Patience, please! Your forums owner also said he was taking ME to court over slander - twice no less! I also am still waiting for that one. These things take time.... I promise it will happen BEFORE WBCCI fails completely as a club from lack of funds and membership.
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Old 05-14-2010, 09:10 AM   #474
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What annoys me the most these folks aren't members yet they hope we fail
Bob, you are sounding exclusionist, a plaint often made of WBCCI leaders.

You are also misreading posts. I have written more than once that I hope the WBCCI is reformed. I also have expressed that sometimes a lawsuit is the only way to go, though it is a painful way as well. I expect a lawsuit may cause some reform, but not necessarily enough. Such nuance may not be desirable to you as you are appearing as rigid in your views as the WBCCI leadership is. That is not a good recipe for success.

I am unsure what "fail" or "success" means to each of the proponents of the lawsuit and the link was just to a series of polemics. If I were a potential plaintiff, I'd have a clear set of goals and not disclose them here or anywhere else public. There would be a more general but clear set of goals for public consumption to attract donations and co-plaintiffs.

Post #1 had these goals:

"The suit seeks a return to fiscal responsibility in light of current economic times.
The use of accepted Parliamentarian Practices and adherence to Roberts Rules in decision making.
A Constitutional change correcting the imbalance currently allowing the IBT to create bylaws and then determine that those bylaws are consistent with its given authority.
(For further info see )
An Amendment to the WBCCI Constitution
Secession of the use of prejudicial grievances lacking reasonable recourse.
A halt to the use of the Clubs funds to retain WBCCI Lawyers to harass individual members that may have voiced their opinions contrary to the Board and or the Executive Committee."

Some of this may be possible through litigation, some is doubtful to me. "Secession" probably means "Ending" and not seceding as in "southern states seceded from the union". The last doesn't seem like a goal worth stating in a succinct statement, but a complaint about WBCCI tactics. The 2nd and 3rd goals are repetitious and the 3rd one is too vague.

I can support some of this just like I support the idea everyone should be fair to everyone.

Gene
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Old 05-14-2010, 10:32 AM   #475
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LI Pets View Post
ok, I want you first to tell us what ALL the fundamental problems facing the WBCCI are?
Then we can answer your question perhaps

As a non member I'm sure your opinion on this will be interesting,
at the same time explain why aren't you a member.
I have described my perception of the WBCCI's problems in great detail on this thread and others. I think Gene has as well. What I have asked--and you have failed to answer--is: how does the lawsuit (if successful) fix those problems? By the way, the answering a question with a question is one step above misdirection by focusing on something nonrelevant like the date of a citation. Keep trying, Bob, you're doing better.

Like Gene, I would prefer the WBCCI reform and survive rather than wither and die. I'm just skeptical of the assertion that the lawsuit--as described--will do more good than harm. Whatever you may know about the law, Bob, I see very little evidence that you have insight into organizational and social dynamics--which I see as the real problem for the WBCCI.

The best possible outcome would be that the litigation forces the IBT to the settlement table for some kind of "peace with honor" outcome. This is only possible if both sides are willing to meet in good faith and reach some kind of compromise. An agreement reached by both sides is far more likely to succeed than a resolution imposed by judicial order.

Ah, and as for my status as a non-member. As a lifelong hunter, I don't need to join PETA to know I wouldn't fit in... or to have an opinion about the organization. In fact, since I don't have an emotions about the WBCCI, for or against, I would say, ceteris paribus, my opinion is less likely to be biased. As an Airstream owner, I'm simply a potential member. If I wanted stress, drama and conflict, Bob, I'd go to a family reunion.
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Old 05-14-2010, 10:50 AM   #476
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If I wanted stress, drama and conflict, Bob, I'd go to a family reunion.
Well said; that pretty much sums it up.
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Old 05-14-2010, 11:49 AM   #477
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Talking

That's why the forums come in so handy if there are no family reunions
going on.....all the drama and conflict you could wish for.....
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Old 05-14-2010, 12:05 PM   #478
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I moved 2,000 miles from my family so I could have some peace, but the internet follows you wherever you go…

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Old 05-14-2010, 12:11 PM   #479
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Old 05-14-2010, 12:32 PM   #480
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What Me Worry!!

I can't keep up with this. Some say that hate the drama. Some say if they want drama they would go to family reunions. Others say they moved thousands of miles away from family to avoid the drama and family reunions.
Yet they flock here and are not even members of WBCCI!!!!! and try to attack one of the guys that is trying to help save WBCCI. I don't get it. What am I missing?

Anyway, it seems to me that WBCCI leadership has done whatever it could to prevent what some may perceive as constructive changes and choose to do nothing instead. So they continue to do exactly what they have been doing all along and expect different results.
Yet in the meantime they are dismantling the system that can effect changes by throwing individuals out of the club or censoring dissenters.

I believe that this lawsuit, if successful on just some of its merits - just might have enough of an impact to save our club. Just change in the caravan requirements would help younger families participate more often.
Membership could increase when younger people, that have different needs - than those of us that are retired, may have those needs better met with a new club vision.
It will take time. People will need to see that WBCCI accepts the changing environment that exists today. Not all units are declining in their numbers. Metro NY is one of them. And, we are having fun too!
Keep up the good work Bob and all the others that are making it happen. We appreciate your time and effort.
Constructive criticism from non-members is also appreciated.
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