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Old 06-01-2010, 07:47 PM   #561
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Bob,

Not a good analogy. Congress has their own private fleet of US Air Force aircraft seating at Andrews AFB, Maryland. Congress also forces the USAF to order more corporate type aircraft to chauffeur them around.
We're at Warren Dunes State Park on Lake Michigan. Working our way to AK.

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Old 06-02-2010, 02:23 PM   #562
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I am noticing an ever increasing frequency of new names reading the Thread. While I do not expect all that are reading to post a comment I suspect a great number of you deep down support this action. With that in mind we are setting up a Google Map that anyone in agreement can place a pin demoting their hometown and sending a note to the Leadership that discontent with the current management of the Club goes way beyond a few discontents and Metro NY. Currently the map, while not yet posted, cover from Fl to AK and NY to Ca.

If you want to show your support without disclosing any personnel information send your hometown information to defendwally@gmail.com and it will be place on the map as a moral supporter of the suit.
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Old 06-03-2010, 07:48 AM   #563
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Quote:
I suspect a great number of you deep down support this action.
Huh? Any thread with this many posts and views is likely to attract attention. Rubber necking is not an indication of support or opposition... it's just human curiosity. And not to pish-posh your idea, but why should the IBT care about what a bunch of non-members think? Now, if you could get even 1,000 dues-paying, card-carrying, beret-wearing, name-tag bearing members to sign on to your quixotic quest... now that would get someone's attention.
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Old 06-03-2010, 08:07 AM   #564
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What makes you think we don't have over a thousand supporters?
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Old 06-03-2010, 08:08 AM   #565
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Pretend I'm from Missouri... and show me.
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Old 06-03-2010, 08:25 AM   #566
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The Google map is neat.
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Old 06-03-2010, 08:26 AM   #567
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About 1/3 of my unit has expressed unhappiness at the current state of affairs at the top echelons of the club. These range from quiet conversations to financial support for the lawsuit. What is surprising is the long-time members that keep under the radar but will discuss their unhappiness with the "regime" one to one.
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Old 06-03-2010, 09:05 AM   #568
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Pretend I'm from Missouri... and show me.
Since you're a non member, I need not
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Old 06-03-2010, 09:12 AM   #569
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Google map

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Originally Posted by wheel interested View Post
The Google map is neat.
Where?
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Old 06-03-2010, 09:42 AM   #570
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It is being created by Leo at this time.

Coming to a theater near you soon.
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Old 06-03-2010, 09:52 AM   #571
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These long-term members are unhappy enough to share their feelings quietly or "one-to-one" but they lack the--whatever--to express these feelings publicly? I apparently underestimated the mystical power of the red numbers.

In the words of the immortal Inigo Montoya, let me sum up.

The alleged lawsuit--which doesn't really exist yet and which the IBT has promised to fight if it does--is representing not only the shouting critics but a secret number of whispering malcontents. The exact number of people will only known when "Leo" finishes the map and it will only be shared with holders of the secret decoder ring. The lawsuit, if filed, must be funded. If funded, it must be successful. If successful, it must radically change the leadership structure of the IBT in a way that not only satisfies a majority of members but resolves the other issues with the club including the budget deficit.

Somehow, Bob's involvement is beginning to make sense to me.
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Old 06-03-2010, 09:55 AM   #572
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I've thought about this possible lawsuit quite a lot. Drew on my experience in the courts. Discussed it with litigators and judges.

I've listened to the tone of the clubs leadership and the tone of some of the regular posters on this thread. Both at times are negative, dismissive, misleading and off putting.

While i am not happy with how the club is run at the top. I don't see where a lawsuit if filed will help the club in any way. In fact it will do damage.

The theory of "We have to destroy it to save it." Is an emotional response and I cannot subscribe to it.

I'd rather spend my time, energy and money building the club while changing it from within. Sure it will take longer than I'd like but at the end of the day there will be a club.
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Old 06-03-2010, 10:05 AM   #573
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The theory of "We have to destroy it to save it." .
Defend Wally never took that position

Quote:
I'd rather spend my time, energy and money building the club while changing it from within. Sure it will take longer than I'd like but at the end of the day there will be a club.
First I hope you live that long, moreover, the club at it's current burn rate will be out of money in few years.
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Old 06-03-2010, 10:17 AM   #574
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Quote:
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Where?
Google maps are neat whatever and whereever they are. Thought I would just interject a light comment. Yes there is a map for supporters being worked on, you need to post on Defend Wally to get on it if you haven't already been added. I saw a map of participants from Leo's rally, I think it was as a demo, and the map was neat. I am rather anxious to see the new map too and see the widespread support. The IP made it sound like there were only members of one unit that was supporting the action.
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Old 06-03-2010, 10:36 AM   #575
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The theory of "We have to destroy it to save it." Is an emotional response and I cannot subscribe to it.
.
In the eyes of the silent majority you have summed it up. Just as with any cancer, that you might be clearly aware of, but may have trouble coming to terns with, radical surgery is often the only avenue.

The Membership that desires change has clearly lost next year looking at the slate of officers offered and knowing that no one will be allowed to be presented from the floor. How long are you willing to wait for this so called change from within?

The Club probably has 3 or 4 years of financial reserves, at the current lose rate, before it is clearly bankrupt. During that period the Leadership will continue to take their free World Tours and the Club looses irreplaceable assets such as the Headquarters and a critical mass in membership.

While we are not Doctors and don't play one on television we are sincere in our efforts to save the Club before it is lost.
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Old 06-03-2010, 10:51 AM   #576
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Okay, I just have to say this one more time.

As I understand it, ya'll are still waiting for sufficient "pledges" to come in for a retainer to start this---$7500.00, as I understand it. As filing fees are minimal, this $ is primarily for legal fees required just to get started. Once that is gone, and it won't take long, thousands and thousands more $ will be required to keep this going in Federal court.

This said, I'm not negating that there are some legitimate issues. I just don't see filing a lawsuit as a realistic means to an end.

Maggie
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Old 06-03-2010, 11:24 AM   #577
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Maggie your assumption is incorrect, but we will not discuss those details in a public forum, WBCCI monitoring this thread like a hawk.

Wait until you read the complaint then it will be clear as to how the suit will change things

.
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Old 06-03-2010, 11:31 AM   #578
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One other point that you should be aware of is WBCCI has not reached out to anyone from Defend Wally or our attorney to discuss resolving this lawsuit to date.

Also yesterday Leo G's appeal was held, HQ has no decision.
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Old 06-03-2010, 11:48 AM   #579
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My impression is that the present WBCCI leaders don't care much what nonmembers think. That is a bad way to attract new members. But if you represent the insurgents, it seems they don't care what nonmembers think either. But if the organization is to survive, it has to attract new members, even ones that disagree with you.

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Old 06-03-2010, 12:23 PM   #580
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First, thanks to Howie for sending me a gracious PM thanking me for keeping this thread prominent... an advocate of the "all publicity is good publicity" school of thought, it would seem. I can no longer read Bob's comments (having just given him the honor of being the second person on my "ignore" list), but based on Gene's response, it would seem he expressed a similar sentiment.

This thread is a Rorschach ink blot test of sorts. Everyone sees the picture they are predisposed to see. Those who support the lawsuit see the number of "views" as proof of widespread interest. Those against the lawsuit see the large number of posts by a relatively small number of users as proof that the discontent is narrow. Since everyone thinks the thread--in one way or another--proves their point, they are delighted people like me are keeping this up front. You are welcome.

Consider this, though. If you had just bought an Airstream--new or used--and stumbled onto this site... would reading this thread make you more or less interested in joining the WBCCI? "We're suing the evil overlords of the Club because we're saving it.... so join us!" or "We know our galactic club masters are evil, but they are old and will die soon.... so join us!"

Where do I sign?

Gene, as he often is, is right. The club dies without new members... unless the current blue beret wearers have discovered the secret of immortality and haven't told anyone. The problem is that--as far as I can tell--the people who so desparately want to be members of the WBCCI are already members. For the people who have no pre-existing emotional attachment to red numbers or blue berets or current members, what's the attraction? How many people want to join a club that's embroiled (or about to be embroiled) in internecine ligitation?

This thread is more than just a discussion about the potential litigation. It's a window into the dysfunction of the WBCCI. Some of the people reading this thread, new owners, potential members, people who've never worn a beret, they don't have preconceptions. They don't have an innate desire to join, an inherent loyalty to the club or a burning desire to write a check for $75 and hope things will get better. The longer the conflict drags on, the less attractive the club becomes. The less attractive the club becomes, the fewer new members join.
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