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-   -   WBCCI Board Lawsuit (https://www.airforums.com/forums/f286/wbcci-board-lawsuit-61787.html)

HowieE 03-02-2010 10:14 AM

WBCCI Board Lawsuit
 
WBCCI Board Lawsuit
A group of WBCCI members have decided to bring suit against WBCCI, the Board and Executive Committee.
The suit seeks a return to fiscal responsibility in light of current economic times.
The use of accepted Parliamentarian Practices and adherence to Roberts Rules in decision making.
A Constitutional change correcting the imbalance currently allowing the IBT to create bylaws and then determine that those bylaws are consistent with its given authority.
(For further info see )
https://www.airforums.com/forums/f286...ion-59520.html
Secession of the use of prejudicial grievances lacking reasonable recourse.


A halt to the use of the Clubs funds to retain WBCCI Lawyers to harass individual members that may have voiced their opinions contrary to the Board and or the Executive Committee.

Please read through the information if you feel the you can no longer sit idly by and let the Club that we all enjoy continue the coarse they are on and perhaps go bankrupt add your support please do so https://defendwally.org


Your thoughts suggestions and opinions are welcome we must stand together to
SAVE the WBCCI

xrvr 03-02-2010 11:04 AM

Do it!!!!! zz

Silvertwinkie 03-02-2010 12:47 PM

What an absolutely great idea. Force the club to be fiscal responsible through costly litigation. :blink: This just keeps getting more entertaining all the time. :wally:

I mean seriously. Folks complained about the raise in dues, but have no problem putting into the hat as it's passed to litigate against WBCCI, thus further exacerbating any financial difficulties they may or may not be having.

The logic is simply flawless. ;)

Best of luck on this one. We'll see how it all turns out, but I doubt seriously you'll gain much support from the judicial branches of government. But hey, that's the American way, sue/litigate if you don't get yer way. :)

dufferin 03-02-2010 01:30 PM

Don't hear you much about the actual and recurrent travel spending and lawyer's letters sent to members that are not following the IBT propaganda...
Where have you been then...
And may be the ones that drive the Club could be personally held responsible... and have to pay the club back for their expenses...
would you support that?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silvertwinkie (Post 817446)
What an absolutely great idea. Force the club to be fiscal responsible through costly litigation. :blink: This just keeps getting more entertaining all the time. :wally:

I mean seriously. Folks complained about the raise in dues, but have no problem putting into the hat as it's passed to litigate against WBCCI, thus further exacerbating any financial difficulties they may or may not be having.

The logic is simply flawless. ;)

Best of luck on this one. We'll see how it all turns out, but I doubt seriously you'll gain much support from the judicial branches of government. But hey, that's the American way, sue/litigate if you don't get yer way. :)


LI Pets 03-02-2010 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silvertwinkie (Post 817446)
What an absolutely great idea. Force the club to be fiscal responsible through costly litigation. :blink: This just keeps getting more entertaining all the time. :wally:

I mean seriously. Folks complained about the raise in dues, but have no problem putting into the hat as it's passed to litigate against WBCCI, thus further exacerbating any financial difficulties they may or may not be having.

The logic is simply flawless. ;)

Why don't you tell us your solution, you do have one don't you?

RickDavis 03-02-2010 01:48 PM

Taken care of

pmclemore 03-02-2010 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silvertwinkie (Post 817446)
I mean seriously. Folks complained about the raise in dues, but have no problem putting into the hat as it's passed to litigate against WBCCI, thus further exacerbating any financial difficulties they may or may not be having.

The logic is simply flawless. ;)

You are being deliberately obtuse. Of course it is not about dues. It is about the club's resources being squandered away to the benefit of the people responsible for its management, not to the benefit and growth of the club.

You used to be a resource for this forum; seemed to be a straight-up guy.

Pat

StingrayL82 03-02-2010 01:51 PM

It's about time.

Way to go, Howie! A pat on the back to everyone else involved with this.

Silvertwinkie 03-02-2010 02:00 PM

Should I be? I don't feel it's my place, but to answer your question, if anything has been done that is **proven** not legal, then yes, I could support reimbursement of funds, but you have to prove that what was done was illegal, which frankly I don't believe can be proven on any of the charges. Remember, this is a private club and unless they discriminate or violate some law, they really are not liable to any of this. Bad management? Maybe, but there are no laws against loosing money or poor management.

If you notice I've really only commented my point on the part of litigation to achieve financial responsibility. It's kind of an oxymoron because to sue/litigate will cost $$. Money folks don't want WBCCI to spend in the first place. Just another expense that will be incurred if this moves forward.

There are really only two or three outcomes to this:

1) The handful of membership leading this cause wins. Costs WBCCI thousands in legal fees and the handful of members could then sue for their costs, adding to the thousands expended by WBCCI which said members appear staunchly against. Add to it bad press as a bi-product.

2) WBCCI wins, the handful of members leading this is then responsible for WBCCI's costs in defending this litigation, but short term WBCCI could be out thousands and of course bad press, which could also be actionable against the Plaintiffs if they lose.

3) The judge sees this, sees that it's a private club, sees no actual laws broken and throws the whole thing out, which even then the Plaintiffs could still be liable for any fees associated with bringing the case up, let alone any possible defamation of character that could follow.

As with any of the three scenarios, regardless of which, the members further polarize the club and continue the bad blood that exists, which really to me seems like the only real point to this effort.

To be honest, if I were as unhappy as some are, I'd have just done what 2Air said, hitch up and move on, but folks gotta do what folks gotta do. Actually Pat, I'm not being obtuse, I'm being a realist here. Some folks simply can't accept the opinions of others. I may not agree with the action, but it's everyone's right to do what they feel is best, however misguided it may be IMHO.

Keep in mind this is one person's opinion looking at this from the outside and is offered as is and at face value.

Buttercup 03-02-2010 02:10 PM

Life is full of oxymorons. One that comes to mind for me would be a a non-member questioning the validity of a lawsuit. If you are still not a member of WBCCI, why would it matter to you if a group of people bring action against the club leadership?
You hardly look from the outside as you say - when threads like this pop up, you fairly quickly become an active participant. It boggles my mind to tell you the truth.

LI Pets 03-02-2010 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silvertwinkie (Post 817484)
Should I be? I don't feel it's my place, but to answer your question, if anything has been done that is **proven** not legal, then yes, I could support reimbursement of funds, but you have to prove that what was done was illegal, which frankly I don't believe can be proven on any of the charges. Remember, this is a private club and unless they discriminate or violate some law, they really are not liable to any of this. Bad management? Maybe, but there are no laws against loosing money or poor management.

If you notice I've really only commented my point on the part of litigation to achieve financial responsibility. It's kind of an oxymoron because to sue/litigate will cost $$. Money folks don't want WBCCI to spend in the first place. Just another expense that will be incurred if this moves forward.

There are really only two or three outcomes to this:

1) The handful of membership leading this cause wins. Costs WBCCI thousands in legal fees and the handful of members could then sue for their costs, adding to the thousands expended by WBCCI which said members appear staunchly against. Add to all if it bad press as a bi-product.

Quote:

2) WBCCI wins, the handful of members leading this is then responsible for WBCCI's costs in defending this litigation, but short term WBCCI could be out thousands and of course bad press, which could also be actionable against the Plaintiffs if they lose.
Wrong again, costs are not done like that in Federal Court.

That's not the way it works.

Quote:

3) The judge sees this, sees that it's a private club and throws the whole thing out, which even then the Plaintiffs could still be liable for any fees associated with bringing the case up, let alone any possible defamation of character that could follow.
That's not going to happen you really don't understand the Court system and should not comment incorrectly

Quote:

To be honest, if I were as unhappy as some are, I'd have just done what 2Air said, hitch up and move on, but folks gotta do what folks gotta do. Actually Pat, I'm not being obtuse, I'm being a realist here. Some folks simply can't accept the opinions of others. I may not agree with the action, but it's everyone's right to do what they feel is best, however misguided it may be.....
You don't throw 55 years of tradition away and drive down the road

We believe the case has merit, we intend to do our best to save the club from self destruction.

3streams 03-02-2010 02:21 PM

"add your support please do so https://defendwally.org"

The comments filled out on this page- who are they going to... you guys or directly to WBCCI? I am filling out the info and that would be helpful in how to best express my opinions. Also will the comments be made public or simply reviewed and consolidated (I know we share a lot of the same grievances)?

Silvertwinkie 03-02-2010 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buttercup (Post 817487)
Life is full of oxymorons. One that comes to mind for me would be a a non-member questioning the validity of a lawsuit. If you are still not a member of WBCCI, why would it matter to you if a group of people bring action against the club leadership?
You hardly look from the outside as you say - when threads like this pop up, you fairly quickly become an active participant. It boggles my mind to tell you the truth.

Leo is not a member either Tim, so I fail to see the connection. You and the others have this all mapped out. Great. I surely can't stop you and even if I could, I wouldn't cause you all have an agenda and feel you were wronged, you think you're right, I say go for it. To me my heath would be worth more than 55 years (most of which few have been around that long in said club), but that's just me.

You all intend to save the club from self destruction? That's an interesting take on furthering a select group's personal agenda. Haven't you all started another club? I mean in one post I read if you are an Airstreamer, you're in, your part of the family, but on the flip side, if you don't agree 100% with what's being said, 12 guys pile up on you. Expected and telling.

Good luck....to the victor goes the spoils. :wally:

pmclemore 03-02-2010 02:24 PM

Please excuse me, but an argument on point would not try to compare the payment of increased dues versus contributing to the costs of a lawsuit. That's just argument for argument's sake.

It is on point to argue that legal fees will be another stress to an already stressed budget. And it is on point to question whether the outcome of the lawsuit would contribute to any positive resolution. And there are innumerable other points to be made.

Yes, there are those that say that if one doesn't like how the club is run, then they should just go.

But that is not right, either. Personally, I don't believe there is a good substitute for the wbcci. The problem is that it has been hijacked by management - who are unassailable by any means due to the way the club is set up and the willingness of management to punish and silence those who object.

Yes - the lawsuit may be expensive for both sides, neither of which has spare resources, from what I can tell. But if this method is seen to be the last way to seek redress then all we can hope for is a quick and reasonable end.

Pat

LI Pets 03-02-2010 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3streams (Post 817494)
"add your support please do so https://defendwally.org"

The comments filled out on this page- who are they going to... you guys or directly to WBCCI? I am filling out the info and that would be helpful in how to best express my opinions. Also will the comments be made public or simply reviewed and consolidated (I know we share a lot of the same grievances)?

They are NOT going to the WBCCI, they are going to be reviewed they may be used but only with the users approval.

We are also seeking additional grounds that any member feels we should be aware of.

dufferin 03-02-2010 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silvertwinkie (Post 817497)
Leo is not a member either...

Do you mean Leo G here?

Because if it's him you're relating to it really is part of the point.
If Leo G is not member anymore it's because the spirit of the law (grievance in that case) has been highly distorted to achieve personal revenge against someone that did express his opposition to the long term IBT taken road for the club (name, non AS moho...). Like Bob T two years ago... but when JF talks about quality for membership (and it is the most discriminating statement I heard in a long term) there is here nothing insulting here may be? :blink:
It's a quater inch close to a criminal court for such statement...
He is still a member as far as I know.
And I am not even talking about the lack of respect for the procedure itself...

wheel interested 03-02-2010 02:44 PM

Leo IS a member as far as the membership and Leo is concerned! That is a far cry from someone who has not cared for the club, even advocated against it and decided not to be a member, Eric. However you decided to now become a moderator as a non-member for a micromanaged forum is anyone's guess. There is a huge difference between your two statuses. Good luck you wish the members as a mercenary and NO offense because I like you, but what up with the back and forth and no loyalties??? To the victor my patootie! This is not the middle ages and whoever wins is not necessarily the right side. That is just an affront to WBCCI members who truly care. I have to say and I usually am quite generous in my thinking that you rank as an outsider and BOY do I hate saying that to anyone but it was YOUR own decision and we have not forgotten, not have you changed your mind and joined. Papa don't preach!

The lawsuit is the last redress as I see it. No amount of energy or trying to perform within the system could as much as be acknowleged by the IBT except to put individuals on hit lists and be discriminated against. Sad but true. No one needs tell us about it, we were new, hopeful and energetic and have learned the process that is obviously broken and skewed!

Buttercup 03-02-2010 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3streams (Post 817494)
"add your support please do so https://defendwally.org"

The comments filled out on this page- who are they going to... you guys or directly to WBCCI? I am filling out the info and that would be helpful in how to best express my opinions. Also will the comments be made public or simply reviewed and consolidated (I know we share a lot of the same grievances)?

They will be posted on the site as far as I know but if you wish that not to be the case, i am sure you can write that in the comments area too and your wished will be respected.

Silvertwinkie 03-02-2010 02:50 PM

Agreed, however, I don't think one can compare Bob T to Leo G. Universe of difference here. Bob I felt really did get the shaft and I felt Bob was constructive and methodical in everything he did. I can't say that about the later.....but again, we'll see where this goes. We're all entitled to our opinions and in the end, we'll see who's proven right. If you ask me (and you didn't, but I'll tell ya anyway), I don't think many on either side of the river are gonna 100% like the outcome. Hopefully we'll all sit shoulder to shoulder at a campfire singing Kumbaya, most likely not gonna happen, but it's a nice thought. :wally:

Carol, the only folks that typically benefit from litigation are the lawyers.

3streams 03-02-2010 02:50 PM

I'm glad to see something is trying to be done about this whole thing. It may be too little too late but you have to try something.


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