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Old 12-26-2009, 08:24 PM   #301
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2005 30' Safari
Pleasanton , California
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That'll teach me not to look at new posts here for a few days...I skip looking for new things and all of a sudden there's 23 pages to read. I'm finally through it all.

For those complaining, heard it all before. For those calling for change, it's been done before. For those calling for someone to take the reins and lead the charge, it's been done before. I've even tried to take those reins with my little experience in the WBCCI. However, I've taken those reins only to look behind me and not see anyone following. So, I've given up on change in the WBCCI. The only reason for me to hang on is so that I can attend "WBCCI rallies". By this I don't mean International, I mean local unit rallies. Particularly WDCU which is my Unit. I too was on the fence about joining WBCCI a year ago. Frank Yensan and the WDCU pushed me over the top and we (Andrea, Parker, Mason, and I) joined. Unfortunately we missed CBR last year due to growing pains with a new vintage Airstream. We reviewed where we had gone last year...not one rally / camping outing was WBCCI. With the upcoming WBBB being a WBCCI event (until about 1 week ago), we knew we had to remain. To be honest, the WDCU got me into WBCCI. We plan on attending CBR this year as well as other WDCU planned events (Rob, Frank, if you need a "buddy" in order to go to any of these events and you can't find another WDCU to sponsor you, don't hesitate to contact me). After this camping year, if we don't find a good fit with the WDCU rallies, then I guarantee that we won't be renewing WBCCI next year. If we do find a good fit with WDCU then the $55 or $75 is a good bargain to hang out with good company. Quite frankly, if WDCU said today that none of their events were WBCCI-required, I think that I too would request a refund of my 2010 membership dues.

That being said, Rob, please keep the Airforums informed as to the developments in your new "club". I think that your involvement and reputation in the WBCCI and your respect within the airstream community can attract a large following. The WBCCI needs competition. Change from within is unlikely and proof of that is the people that have posted in this thread about their experiences with the WBCCI over the last decade. Change has always "been on the horizon" and there is seems to stay. Only the potential loss to a competitor might spark enough enthusiasm to get a substantial change moving. In which case for many ex-WBCCI'ers, it will be too little too late. My family is planning to attend the WBBB this summer and I hope to hear many details of your "counter-club", Rob.
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Old 12-26-2009, 08:46 PM   #302
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Jason, You own an Airstream product you are in the club. Simple as that. Ownership is all the dues you need to pay.
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Old 12-26-2009, 10:11 PM   #303
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Dear Rob (RobandZoe)

Would you allow Avion owners to take part in your new club?
I believe that it would go a long way toward good will if you were to let in other silver trailers, like: Avion, Silverstreak, Streamline, Bowlus, Curtis Wright, etc.

Where you could differentiate between your new club and Tin Can Tourists is that you'd restrict it to only silver trailers, but of all persuasions.

Do this, and I will join.

Otherwise, guess it'll be Good Sam's and TCT for me

See ya on the road whilst pulling my 34' Avion triple axle,
- Jim
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Old 12-26-2009, 10:16 PM   #304
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INclude all silvers is great with me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11
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Old 12-26-2009, 10:25 PM   #305
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18k+ views, Wow........
Winston Salem, NC
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Old 12-26-2009, 10:38 PM   #306
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I looked up tin can tourist it is only a campground where are the activities?
The only rally i know is in May in Pismo and there are only 2 tin can rallies a year.
Toni and her friends put it together and it sells out months before it happens. Sells out within days of the announcement.
Air forums let us try to make this happen! gail
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Old 12-26-2009, 11:06 PM   #307
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1960 22' Safari
in the wilderness , The great Mojave Desert
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Originally Posted by 65GT View Post
Really? Do you think 8-10 members handing out from-the-floor candidate fliers prior to the Delegates Meeting in Perry got their attention?

Do you think having THREE members running from the floor got their attention in Bozeman, each tallying up ~1500 votes a piece?

Even in a year when the IP and MANY Region Presidents and MANY Unit Presidents kept from-the-floor candidates from their membership, a single from the floor candidate managed ~1700 votes. Do you think that got their attention?

They adapt to member dissatisfaction just as quickly and just as easily as they have adapted to new negative benchmarks to determine success for their year in power.

How small was the annual membership loss during my presidency?

How small were the operational losses during my term as President?

How small were the International Rally losses this year?

The smaller that negative number, the more successful their term.

Members withdrawing from this club, members holding an anti-rally just down the road will get their attention -- for about a day or two, and then NEW benchmarks become a part of the fail/success formula is all.

How few members requested a refund while I was President?

How few protesters camped down the road during my International?

Each and every one of these protests gets some attention, but not a single one of them phases these folks from their positions or their agenda, remember "unreviewable power."

The mistake that everyone is making here is in believing that you can knock these folks off of their celebratory year of honor and prestige, their year long Grand North American Tour. That you can force these folks to look like, act like, and behave like the masses that camp in their black top parking lots for a week.

They have the support of the 300+ early workers that camp there for 3+ weeks, at a single weeks cost. They only need your money -- they don't need anything else you're peddling, from an idea to an improvement.

I just wonder, out of the ~200 members that they're missing from a break even Gillette International Rally, how many would normally have signed up or a generator or 3 amp section? Exclusivity or inclusive -- what are we trying to accomplish here?

I was just notified that my grievance hearing will be by TELEPHONE (a BIG RRONR NO-NO) on Jan-23. These folks were notified TWO YEARS AGO that these types of disciplinary procedures were in direct opposition to RRONR, and what have they done about it? NOTHING -- ZIP -- ZERO -- NADA!

Why are the grievance amendments calling for confidentiality? It's really simple -- they're not interested in member's rights -- they're not interested in fairness. Those that are in power and their committees are merely a self-selected, pre-anointed support network. Where does the membership influence any of this? Unreviewable power -- remember?

So you sit on the outside, you sit down the road, you don't attend the IBT Seminars (the only place you'll be offered a microphone), and if you do come, you sit silent in your chair. Until the majority of the audience IN THAT ROOM becomes a majority audience for change. Until these people are near rattled out of their chairs by the voices of dissatisfaction by the MEMBERS sitting before them - they're simply going to adjust and dismiss whatever it is you think you're going to bring to them.

YES, you can camp down the street, and NO, as a member you don't have to pay a day fee to attend these meetings. These meetings are FREE as they are the right of every member to attend the official business meetings of the WBCCI. You don't have the right to be on the premises prior to or after those meetings -- but you don't have to give them a dime to participate.

Unless you're in that room, or unless you send your Delegate with a very strong conviction for change and outrage (and most Delegates never say so much as BOO) you're not moving anything forward -- quiting is just that -- QUITING...

The only way anyone is going to affect this little self-important leadership clique is to call them out in the room. YOU can participate in the IBT Seminar, YOU can participate in the Delegates Seminar, your Delegate can participate in the Delegates Meeting.

You can legislate them out of power from home, but it takes individuals that are determined to get their membership to take up and understand the issues, and VOTE for them.

What a shame that the 2009 annual losses will be covered at the Mid-Winter IBT Seminar in front of a home crowd that overwhelmingly fully supports whatever these folks want to do.

Does anyone remember the Kool-Aid induced frenzy over bringing Four Wind Motorhomes into the club? That an IP actually invited and had a Four Winds Motorhome in the HALL where WBCCI official business, a club of Airstream owners was to be held?

THAT's the home crowd, and that crowd will give these failures a pass with a limp wrist slap -- just wait and listen...

You want to make changes -- you get in that room. You can't get there, you send your Delegate with an agenda. You want to see real changes, you legislate them 6 months out.

Trying to affect change from the outside, you're merely passing gas...

I could not agree more.
I'd rather be boon docking in the desert.

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CA 4

Yes, we have courtesy parking for you. About an hour North of Los Angeles.
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Old 12-26-2009, 11:25 PM   #308
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Originally Posted by Silverexpres View Post
...there are established professional touring companies that specialize in foreign trips and extended trips to say Alaska, Canada, and Mexico.
If you compare the price and what you get from these "professional touring companies" with the WBCCI caravans, the WBCCI caravans are cheaper and do a lot more. These companies are always trying to steal our itineraries, so we must be doing something right.

If you like caravanning, the WBCCI membership is a great value. You can plan and take great trips solo in your Airstream--I've done that, but you will do and see a lot more on a caravan, because you are part of the group and the leader has scouted out the attractions and activities.

AIRForum rallies are great. One of my Unit members hosts one every year, and we always try to attend. We're trying to simplify our FL Unit WBCCI rallies, but tradition dies hard.

Working for change from within,

Randy & Pat Godfrey
Florida Airstream Club (027)
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2018 F-150 Platinum - unnamed

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Old 12-27-2009, 05:53 AM   #309
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Originally Posted by SilverCabin View Post

Working for change from within,

I have heard this statement many times over. Could you tell me how it is you are changing things? I would like to see an example of how people are actually making these "changes from within". With the exception of Leo(who's actions have gotten him nearly booted a few times now) and Bob Thompson(who's near booting was stopped by a huge email campaign) I have seen virtually zero effort put forth by members to institute change. The act of paying your dues is saying it is okay how they spend it. Paying your dues shows support to those within. You do not kill poison ivy by giving it water, you kill it by starving it of the nutrients that keep it alive.

Now I did not mean to single Randy out, but he used that magic phrase again like so many have. Be sure that if you say you are working for change from within that you actually are putting it into action and not just sitting back and waiting for someone else to make this miraculous "change from within" happen.
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Old 12-27-2009, 06:37 AM   #310
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Motions, Motions, Motions.....

Just the fact that you have to put forward a motion to get the IBT to even consider anything in the right direction is the crux of the problem here.

Rob, Zoe', Stanton, Bryce, Braedon and Finn Baker
Do you Listen to the
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Old 12-27-2009, 09:50 AM   #311
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See they are nothing alike at all.............

I probably shouldn't post this, but I just cant help myself....

The Soviet Union

Communist Party: Members need a sponsor
WBCCI:Members need an AS

Communist Party: The is Politburo selected by the Central committee
WBCCI: The IBT is selected by the IBT

Communist Party: Ranking members get perks such as special homes, shopping in special stores, and so forth.
WBCCI: Ranking members get special perks like special parking spots for life, paid travel expenses.

Communist Party
: Dissenters get sent to Siberia to silence any unpleasant observations.
WBCCI: Dissenters get kicked out to silence any unpleasant observations.

Communist Party:The party is the court system
WBCCI:The IBT is the court system

Communist Party: Newspaper called Pravda, doesn’t carry news so much as propaganda.
WBCCI: Newspaper called The Blue Bret, doesn’t carry news so much as propaganda.

Communist Party: Finally collapsed under the strain of unsustainable finical policy, disregard of human dignity, and refusal to change in response to objective reality over ideology.
WBCCI: Never mind…….

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and the painting page

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Old 12-27-2009, 10:35 AM   #312
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Gen Disarry

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Old 12-27-2009, 11:00 AM   #313
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Ya know, if it wasn't for the Blue Beret, I might never have become Trailer Trash Queen...hmm...
Michael & Tracy
1989 345 Motorhome
We live for the moment, 'cause when you get there, it's gone...
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Old 12-27-2009, 11:06 AM   #314
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All the WBCCI needs is a Boris Yeltsin. Let the vodka flow!

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Old 12-27-2009, 11:13 AM   #315
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Gene, you mean водка? Let the водка flow?

Sorry... going to my room now... I just couldn't help m'self!

havin' to fix my broken Airstreams since 1987...
AIR 2053 Current: 2004 Airstream Interstate "B-Van" T1N DODGE Sprinter
Former Airstreams: 1953 Flying Cloud, 1957 Overlander, 1961 Bambi, 1970 Safari Special, 1978 Argosy Minuet, 1985 325 Moho, 1994 Limited 34' Two-door, 1994 B190 "B-Van"
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Old 12-27-2009, 11:18 AM   #316
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At least we're getting some levity to this thread.
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Old 12-27-2009, 11:48 AM   #317
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Originally Posted by 85MH325 View Post
Gene, you mean водка? Let the водка flow?
At least I can spell gin in its native language.

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Old 12-27-2009, 12:02 PM   #318
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for those of you that speak Russian;

Rodena tia bay ne zabuddit!
This is said to fallen Russian Soldiers.
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Old 12-27-2009, 12:54 PM   #319
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Old 12-27-2009, 02:11 PM   #320
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What should a new club be?

Originally Posted by JimGolden View Post
Dear Rob (RobandZoe)

Would you allow Avion owners to take part in your new club?
I believe that it would go a long way toward good will if you were to let in other silver trailers, like: Avion, Silverstreak, Streamline, Bowlus, Curtis Wright, etc.

Where you could differentiate between your new club and Tin Can Tourists is that you'd restrict it to only silver trailers, but of all persuasions.

Do this, and I will join.

Otherwise, guess it'll be Good Sam's and TCT for me

See ya on the road whilst pulling my 34' Avion triple axle,
You make a very good point.

Should a new club be inclusive or exclusive?

Making a new club inclusive would allow anyone to become a member.

Making a new club exclusive would perpetuate more of that which already exists; Airstream OWNERS only need apply.

As for me, give me a club that is inclusive of people who care about the organization and want to contribute towards its success; that should be, IMNSHO, the only requirement for membership.

If a new club is to be exclusive and limit who can become a member, I'm not much interested in participating. I experience too much of this in other areas of my life as it is.

We are travelers with an attitude. We get to go anywhere, anytime, and have attitudes about what we see and hear.

"Travel is fatal to bigotry, prejudice and being narrow minded."
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