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Old 12-28-2009, 03:58 AM   #341
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Originally Posted by PeeWee View Post
"likeminded" - Define.
like–mind·ed
Pronunciation: \ˈlīk-ˈmīn-dəd\
Function: adjective
: having a like disposition or purpose : of the same mind or habit of thought
— like–mind·ed·ly adverb
— like–mind·ed·ness noun


Dale,

I have heard the WBCCI Caravans of today compared to Tour Company trips... correct me if I am wrong, but I doubt the early Caravans were trips in which for a large fee, the tour company met your every need. I'm sure there are many members of today who appreciate this sort of carefree trip... but there are also many members who are drawn to the club by the rugged individualistic nature of what we see in the early caravaners.
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Old 12-28-2009, 04:36 AM   #342
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Originally Posted by overlander64 View Post
Greetings Brian!



This year, the Southern Illinois Unit will be having its Children and Grandchildren Rally at the DuQuoin State Fairgrounds:

Jun 4-6 – Children/Grandchildren Rally,
DuQuoin St. Fairgrounds, Gate 3, DuQuoin, IL

The details regarding registration and activities hasn't been published yet, but if my memory is correct this is a very informal rally with the main activities targeted at the children and grandchildren.

Kevin
Kevin- I know I have said it before and I still mean it, the club survives and is grat because of the local units. My Daughter Sara (15) held her first rally this past July, Kids Karnival. Everyone, adults, kids and Grandparents had a fantastic weekend. Everyone brought a carnival game and set it up at their trailer, handed out reffle tickets for everyone who played the game and then placed the tickets in a Chinese Raffle. That iw what WBCCI is all aout.
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Old 12-28-2009, 04:54 AM   #343
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The kids are the future. Environmental education is what they all need. Studies have shown that there is a link between ADD and ADHD with lack of outside environmental activities. Get the kids involved. If it can be made cool for the Teens the club will grow and become better.



Ha Ha. Do a teen caravan to the Boonaroo festival in Manchester Tn. They would be hooked for life.

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Old 12-28-2009, 09:17 AM   #344
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Include or exclude?

Part of the debate is about inclusion vs. exclusion. Thus the posts about what trailers to include or exclude. The Forum is more about inclusion—anyone interested in an Airstream or a similar trailer is included. The members and guests do the voting by joining or lurking ("lurking" is defined in an positive manner). Joining the Forum only requires registration; lurking only requires access to a computer. The WBCCI has rules about who can join or participate in their rallies—some of those rules are enforced and some are not by individual units. Therefore the WBCCI excludes. The WBCCI Forum, according to numerous reports, excludes those who disagree with the organization's official line.

We have camped with friends who have other types of RV's and we had a good time. We went to a WBCCI rally as a guest and had a good time too. I have participated in the Forum for more than 2 years—not sure it's always a good time, but it's sometimes fun, sometimes not. It is always educational.

The communications revolution is inclusive so long as you have computer access or a friend who does. Thus, I think a future club organized with the help of the Forum is going to be inclusive regardless of anyone's individual intent. Thus my previous post limiting participation to Airstream like trailers is now rendered invalid and a product of a developing thought.

The Good Sam club is based not on a communications revolution, but on RV ownership. It offers economic benefits (discounts, insurance) and rallies. It is a marketing based venture. It is somewhat inclusive if judged by membership since it makes little sense to be a member unless you have an RV. The Forum was created through a communications revolution and an interest in Airstream like products. It could be considered more exclusive than the Good Sam company in regard to that interest factor, but more inclusive in other regards.

Humans have always excluded those who appear or act different, but the internet levels some of that. One of the things we have learned from living in a small town is that you have to get along with very different people and work together to get things done. That is not easy. A lot of oldtimers judge you by whether your grandfather is buried here. That is intrinsically unfair, but to them is an essential measure of character. The Forum, on the other hand, teaches that you can develop friendships with people who are very different but share an interest in Airstreams and express themselves in a manner you like. No one knows where your grandparents are buried and no one cares. Some people exclude themselves by breaking the community rules. There's no doubt Forum members fall into groups according to what they post about and how they do it. It's self-exclusion from the greater community. But it's also very fluid and over time you can learn to appreciate members who at first turned you off. So there's a lot of learning how to be inclusive here.

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Old 12-28-2009, 01:37 PM   #345
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2009 coming to a close!

Wow - over 20,000 views in a little over a week..

Well, the year 2009 is almost over... I wonder what the 2010 numbers are for the WBCCI - how many did or did not re-new. If alot did not re-new, then the poor IBT are worse off starting in 2010 than even they anticipated. Patiently waiting to hear - I guess the Mid-winter meeting is where we'll find out... I'm betting it's not pretty! Anyone put a Mountain Dew on it? Lower or higher? I choose lower, alot lower!

A toast to those that did not re-new... Remember, you've got a few more days to vote with your pocket book and cancel and get your 2010 dues back!
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Old 12-28-2009, 02:49 PM   #346
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Here are some numbers

From a letter from Cindy Reed at WBCCI headquarters:

Each year headquarters sends out a letter to all members who have not paid their dues. This letter also includes a request that the member let us know why they did not renew. Following is the response received this year:
Letters mailed to 1,140 members
Received 239 responses (21%)
59 renewed
69 Airstream sold
20 Age or health
8 Death of spouse
4 Unhappy with club
1 Will rejoin later
3 No comment
13 Lifestyle, economy, time
8 No notice from unit
18 Pd unit; not sent to headquarters
36 Mail returned


I was surprised that age, health, and death of spouse were not larger numbers. Looks like WBCCI is definitely below the 6000 mark since it was previously at about 6600 if I recall correctly. I'm guessing most unhappy folks simply deep sixed the letter.
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Old 12-28-2009, 02:52 PM   #347
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With 20,000 views there is some interest to the tune of about 500 or so a day. With current membership of 6500 or so, it is that number that makes a difference versus the views on this thread.

If there is a smaller membership for 2010 by say 10 percent or more, there may be a heads up at the top. If less than that I am willing to say the powers to be will chalk that loss up to the current market and state of affairs.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Action
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Old 12-28-2009, 03:09 PM   #348
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Interesting numbers Pahaska. That means the 1140 letters had a 6.75% positive response (renewals to hdqrs or units). Let's say the letters postal cost (501.60) plus staff time and cost of duplicating letters, cost 60¢ each, that's a cost for 77 renewals of $684 for $4,235 in dues of $55. But the WBCCI probably gets a reduced postal rate, so these are just estimates. Since mailings get low response no matter what is offered, this is not all that unusual unless you are getting few new members. Some other interesting numbers would be new members in 2009 and new members in 2008 who didn't renew.

If there were 6,600 members in 2009 at $55 each, that's membership income of $363,000. If 2010 results in 6,000 members (10% loss), that's membership income of $450,000, an increase of $87,000, an amount not to be realized until 2011. But even if realized immediately, it would cover only about 62% of 2009 losses. But it wouldn't be collected until 2011 and then only if the proposed dues increase is passed. How can such an organization ever catch up?

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Old 12-28-2009, 03:13 PM   #349
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Keep banging your head Leo

Ya know what - my headache is gone! Keep banging your head Leo... when NY Metro defects (which I love that idea), or you're booted from the club you fight so much for (I don't get that).... your headache will be over too...

You should tow up to Canada as I hear they have better aspirin up there... perhaps you can get a supply at the Region 2 rally this year.

Let's see.. Metro NY had 100% give money to continue to support the IBT, but many want to defect? Interesting logic there... hmmm.... keep on supporting their habits is all I say - NOT!

And I disagree, even 1 member that doesn't renew hurts them right where they need to hurt.. and they WILL pay attention.. I know I would if I was the PRES! The fact a member isn't noticed is another reason I stopped supporting their cause.

Rob
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Old 12-28-2009, 03:13 PM   #350
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pahaska View Post
From a letter from Cindy Reed at WBCCI headquarters:

Each year headquarters sends out a letter to all members who have not paid their dues. This letter also includes a request that the member let us know why they did not renew. Following is the response received this year:
Letters mailed to 1,140 members
Received 239 responses (21%)
59 renewed
69 Airstream sold
20 Age or health
8 Death of spouse
4 Unhappy with club
1 Will rejoin later
3 No comment
13 Lifestyle, economy, time
8 No notice from unit
18 Pd unit; not sent to headquarters
36 Mail returned


I was surprised that age, health, and death of spouse were not larger numbers. Looks like WBCCI is definitely below the 6000 mark since it was previously at about 6600 if I recall correctly. I'm guessing most unhappy folks simply deep sixed the letter.
Look at the numbers. About 80% didnt respond. Of the 1,140 non-renewals, only 0.35% reported unhappiness, although the number goes up to a whopping 1.7% if you only use responders to calculate the rate of unhappy members. Frankly, this sort of data is next to worthless since it is based on willingness of uninterested peoples to respond. The data simply does not present a representative sample, hence, no conclusions can be drawn beyond the individual responses. As group data, it is of no use whatsoever.

That aside, suppose that those departing did respond and sent in a note explaining what their complaints were. Then there would be no ambiguity in the state of affairs. Bottom line: if you want to send a message by not renewing- then literally send them a message.
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Old 12-28-2009, 03:16 PM   #351
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrawfordGene View Post
If there were 6,600 members in 2009 at $55 each, that's membership income of $363,000. If 2010 results in 6,000 members (10% loss), that's membership income of $450,000, an increase of $87,000, an amount not to be realized until 2011.

Gene
Gene,

Last I counted, for 2010, $55 X 6000 = $340,000, a net loss of $23,000.
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Old 12-28-2009, 03:20 PM   #352
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pahaska View Post
I was surprised that age, health, and death of spouse were not larger numbers.
I would assume there are quite a few "age health and death of spouse" in the 900 that did not respond. They are hard points of reality for some to deal with.

If the units reported a member as none renewing would headquarters accept that and not include them in the mailing or does Headquarters still include them in the mailing. If they play games with the financial books who is to say they are not playing games here also
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Old 12-28-2009, 03:24 PM   #353
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A couple years ago I forgot to renew. Never heard anything from either HQ or my unit.
I was only notified when they went to process my early registration for the International which i had paid at the previous international. It was about this time of year or later when I was contacted.
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Old 12-28-2009, 03:42 PM   #354
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An unthought out idea

For the working from the outside for change group.

Develop a online petition page where formal members can list their former #, reason for leaving, and whether they would be willing to return if changes were made. Other options could certainly be added but you get the idea.

IF large numbers are leaving out of unhappiness related to management (and so far as I know there is no real data supporting this argument) AND are voicing a desire to return under changed circumstances such a listing would allow for: 1) establishing the extent of the unhappiness numerically, and 2) the calculation of a low ball number of how much the non-renewals are costing the club. It would only provide a low ball number due to self-reporting issues.

It seems to me that one thing that is needed at this point is good data as opposed to guesses. This approach, while imperfect, would be a step in that direction.

On edit: For extra leverage, start an account temporally holding the dues that would have been paid in. Think of it as a pseudo-escrow account. When former members register on the petition they could have the option of paying into this account. If a year goes by without changes, the money could be returned to the former member.
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Old 12-28-2009, 04:56 PM   #355
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A lot of Energy

I'm amazed that people that have bailed on the WBCCI STILL spend soooooo much of their time on the WBCCI....................
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Old 12-28-2009, 05:07 PM   #356
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I think its a good thing

Quote:
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I'm amazed that people that have bailed on the WBCCI STILL spend soooooo much of their time on the WBCCI....................
Assuming that one is wanting to see an eventual recovery of the club, a high level of interest in the club by former members is a good thing. It suggests to me that they may be willing to return at some future date if circumstances change.
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Old 12-28-2009, 05:15 PM   #357
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Gene,

Last I counted, for 2010, $55 X 6000 = $340,000, a net loss of $23,000.
Sorry if I wasn't clear—I was using $75 dues for 2010 but really meant 2011. Obviously for 2010, your numbers are correct.

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Old 12-28-2009, 05:22 PM   #358
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Strategy is everything - tons of energy too!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Emerick View Post
people that have bailed on the WBCCI
keep thinking that Ed... the "anti member until change" campaign has only begun! It's the club's leadership, or lack thereof, that has bailed on its members....
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Old 12-28-2009, 05:23 PM   #359
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Naw

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gen Disarray View Post
Assuming that one is wanting to see an eventual recovery of the club, a high level of interest in the club by former members is a good thing. It suggests to me that they may be willing to return at some future date if circumstances change.

I don't see it that way at all. I see it as a way to slam the WBCCI from the outside. The only interest I see is a continued need to keep slamming without being willing to put forth the energy to make changes from the inside.

Bailed, that’s what I see and a need to be seen doing it. I have more respect for those that go their own way without all the advertisement. Just my 2 cents, most likely not worth the 2 cents to most.
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Old 12-28-2009, 05:27 PM   #360
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for 2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrawfordGene View Post
Sorry if I wasn't clear—I was using $75 dues for 2010 but really meant 2011. Obviously for 2010, your numbers are correct.

Gene
for 2011, and $75, use a realistic number of 5000 then..... raising it only to $375k.....
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