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LI Pets · 01-05-2011, 04:01 AM

Art 28 was revised by the neato committee.

Carol no conflict that I know of, Don I believe is aware of the need for the revision.

mistral blue · 01-05-2011, 05:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LI Pets

Art 28 was revised by the neato committee.

Post it.

Just so you know, there is no "Art 28" to revise.

XVIII = 18, not 28

LI Pets · 01-05-2011, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mistral blue

Post it.

Just so you know, there is no "Art 28" to revise.

XVIII = 18, not 28

no it's 28 when you didn't have your coffee yet

Lily&Me · 01-05-2011, 02:29 PM

Let's have facts on this, Bob.

Maggie

LI Pets · 01-05-2011, 02:42 PM

We are a special committee of the Exec committee not IBT

Not part of the CBL.

It is the the Exec committees prerogative as to if and when to disclose the Revised Bylaws to the membership.

I'm not at liberty to do so.

redwagon · 01-05-2011, 07:43 PM

Bob,
What could possibly be changed in Article XVIII to improve the WBCCI?

Nothing... This club needs to focus on improving what our club's main objective should be: providing quality opportunities to have FUN while we travel, meet other Airstream owners, (need I include - while using our Airstreams?), and use our AIRSTREAMS as much as possible. We have become a club whose leadership thrives on meetings to discuss not only club rules but Roberts Rules of Order. If our leadership was trusted to enrich the club's objective instead of nit-picking bylaws, looking for loopholes, hoarding authority, and creating an environment of secrecy and mistrust, just imagine what this forum could be discussing!

Certainly not this.

Sandy

munimula · 01-05-2011, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redwagon

Bob,
What could possibly be changed in Article XVIII to improve the WBCCI?

Nothing... This club needs to focus on improving what our club's main objective should be: providing quality opportunities to have FUN while we travel, meet other Airstream owners, (need I include - while using our Airstreams?), and use our AIRSTREAMS as much as possible.

Hi Sandy - I guess we are lucky here in the northeast - my Unit puts on events monthly that are wonderful get-togethers whether we are camping or enjoying a luncheon. We have other Units to the north, east, west, and south of us who put on Rallies and other events year round. We have too many really fun WBCCI events to choose from on any given weekend during Rally season.

Here is the kicker - rarely, if ever, is the IBT brought up in conversation at any Rally. If it is, usually there are groans from the gallery. We are out Airstreaming regularly and having tons of fun. Not to brag too much but that is what the club's wonderful experience is for this Airstreamer.

--Dave

redwagon · 01-05-2011, 09:24 PM

Hi Bob,

We are lucky in Wisconsin too. Our unit does not dwell on the IBT and meeting malarky either. We have plenty to offer too. Ed and I will be leading a caravan to Alumapalooza then to the new national rally at Burke Lakefront Airport in Cleveland next June. In the fall, we are leading another caravan - Weird Wisconsin - from our Region 7 Vintage rally to the Apostle Island rally.

Ed and I are strong supporters of our club. Buying an Airsteam and joining has been one of our best decisions!

But that does not mean I support the strife our national leadership continue to create by this shroud of secrecy they operate beneath. If the motions, or committee reports that are omitted from the IBT meeting agenda are truly in the best interest of the club, then these items should withstand any scrutiny by our members. But as always, we are told that we cannot be given that information in advance. I just don't understand why a club devoted to travel, friendships, and Airstreams continues to be sidetracked by our own leadership. Wouldn't it be nice to not even discuss what the IBT might be doing next? And be looking forward to the next International rally without any political issues?

I just wish these national leaders would look to our units and follow our example!

Sandy

LI Pets · 01-06-2011, 03:37 AM

The current and up[coming leaders are a lot more open minded than the past, but even the PIP know it time for change.

I believe the new bylaws will advance those issues, as far as the next International not having political issues.....I wouldn't get my hopes up.

Lets see how the Exec committee accepts or rejects the Revision, we'll all know by the 28th.

Frank's Trailer Works · 01-06-2011, 04:47 AM

I look forward to the XXVIIIth. The XVIII article will solve it all. I just wish it was Article XXVIII on the XVIIIth so I would not have to wait too long.

I know when I go camping I always bring my articles and amendments along. I load them into the truck just incase. Hey, ya never know how handy an article is until your in the woods and run out of amendments. I could never imagine camping without them.

Nuvite-F · 01-06-2011, 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 62overlander

I know when I go camping I always bring my articles and amendments along. I load them into the truck just in case. Hey, ya never know how handy an article is until your in the woods and run out of amendments.

They're especially handy when you run out of toilet paper. . .

.

rideair · 01-06-2011, 09:09 AM

Guys/Gals,

This is how power is kept in the tight circle of the all knowning:

PAST INTERNATIONAL PRESIDENTS COUNCIL
1. All Past International Presidents are members of the Past International Presidents Council and may make recommendations, in writing, on policies and procedures to the International Board of Trustees through the Council Chairman. Information sent to International Board of Trustee members may be sent to Past International Presidents who, annually, submit a written request to Headquarters. (6/21/93)

For a PIP, change or the lack there of is only a so called "phone call away".

Don't you wish as regular members of the WBCCI you could have this type of power to make recommendations to the IBT. Oh yeh, you can send your emails, write your letters, etc... but do they listen to you like the do the PIP's? I don't think so.

And if you really listen to who/how ideas are brought to the attention of the IBT, the above will ring true in your ears. Just think, if Forrest had been a PIP, the motion from the Denver Unit would be up for a vote and changes would be made.

I just hope they don't make changes to how and what colors our badges should be and how they should be worn in the By-Laws. You know, red/blue/green/white/coral/silver/milk-white and light blue, clear-light green/ clear-red, etc... inserts and all.

I'm just glad I'm not color blind or I'd be in a h*ll of a mess. Now I know why I don't wear one. Just an eye-patch for me and International, it's easier that way.

mistral blue · 01-06-2011, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LI Pets

Lets see how the Exec committee accepts or rejects the Revision, we'll all know by the 28th.

The Bylaws Revision Special Committee works specifically for the President and it serves at his pleasure alone. The President can do anything he wants with the report. The President will submit to the Executive Committee, and to the Constitution and Bylaws Committee, whatever he feels is appropriate. (For those that may not know, the President is the Chairman of the 7-person Executive Committee (EC7), and is the presiding member of the IBT.)

The Constitution and Bylaws Committee may then recommend amendments they deem desirable or necessary. It is then up to the sole discretion of IBT to adopt whatever they want as a new Bylaw.

But we're not quite done yet. Only Bylaws "not inconsistent with the Constitution" may be adopted. It stands to reason that if you're gonna change stuff in the Bylaws, you're probably gonna hafta change some stuff in the Constitution too...

Now this is where it starts to get a little murky. As many of you know, Forrest has a motion that at its core is trying to bring a little harmony to the Club. Right now, the IBT creates the Bylaws. The IBT then decides if those Bylaws are Constitutional.

WHAT?!? Basically, what we have in place right now is an unreviewable power. Forrest's Motion, however, puts a little balance into the equation and allows for some independant review -- by the membership through their delegates.

LI Pets says Article XVIII was revised by his Committee. (I'm assuming he drank some coffee before he made that statement.

) Does this newly Revised Article allow OUR DELEGATES to review, audit and/or repeal actions taken by the IBT? I doubt it... I've been told to wait and see... But what do you think is gonna happen with this as yet unseen Revision from LI Pets' Committee? It's probably gonna get adopted, that's what! It's probably gonna get adopted with some lovely Constitutional amendments thrown in there too. This is the IBT way. The ONLY way.

And what's happening to Forrest's Motion, the motion that AN ENTIRE REGION voted on and endorsed? It's getting BURIED, by one man, the new Chairman of the Constitution and Bylaws Committee, PIP Don Shafer. Mr. Shafer doesn't care that Region 11 went through all the hoops to get their motion before the entire membership. Forrest's Motion dilutes some of his power. He's not about to stand for that!

RickDavis · 01-06-2011, 03:55 PM

Very well presented Mistral Blue

If I understand this right then, The IP gets the report and has sole power to determine its fate? Bring it forward all or in part? Or even totally disregard it with out sharing it with anyone?
So it is entirely possible we may never know what this committee did, although perhaps that would be the extreme case.

I certainly would like to know what the revision committee recommended in its entirety so that we the members would have a better idea of what our officers are thinking.
Secrecy seems to be a major problem with this organization

mistral blue · 01-06-2011, 04:23 PM

Article III, Sections 2 & 3 talk about Standing Committees.

Section 8 refers to Special Committees.

The Revision Committee is a Special Committee. "Special committees may be appointed by the President for the purpose of carrying out projects not within the purview of a standing committee."

Lily&Me · 01-06-2011, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mistral blue

Basically, what we have in place right now is an unreviewable power.

Yes. And their members are watching and waiting, listening and reading.

Maggie

rideair · 01-06-2011, 05:07 PM

But don't forget, a special commitee is only good for the amount of time the current IP is in office. When he leaves office, so does his commitee "unless" the next IP wants to keep them in place.

mistral blue · 01-06-2011, 06:57 PM

The IBT = an unreviewable power.

An unreviewable power is one that is likely to self-indulge itself and unlikely to engage in any real analysis.

Eventually, an unreviewable power will arrogantly wield the rules as a weapon of intimidation rather than as an instrument of protection.

Eventually, an unreviewable power will lead to a club paralyzed by fear, unwilling to assume responsibility.

An unreviewable power has led to the WBCCI being both overly reliant on the IBT's authority and incredibly distrustful of it.

Right now, those at the top of the WBCCI food chain, the ones who have finally made it to the International level, can only be expected to represent the views of past generations better than the views of the current day.

Boondocker · 01-06-2011, 07:01 PM

Power corrupts
Absolute power is pretty neat.

Ed Emerick · 01-06-2011, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LI Pets

The current and up[coming leaders are a lot more open minded than the past, but even the PIP know it time for change.

Oh how you and the IBT try to BS a Bser. Change? not in my membership liftime, check out the biggest BSer Don S's comments on change. OMG now I'm out of order......................