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Old 10-08-2008, 08:55 PM   #301
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The way to complete the circle is for the grievance committee to resign - if they had any sense of shame. it is clear that they stemrolled themselves into an unjust action.

It is well that they reversed the action. However do-overs are not the same as acting responsibly in the first place. Clearly they are not up to the job.

I have decided to suspend myself for the coming year.

Pat
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Old 10-08-2008, 09:09 PM   #302
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Pat - I'd rather see you as an active member, working to effect the changes Bob was advocating. The "outside" is not the place to do that.

I made a fun protest, but nevertheless a protest - I made my membership renewal check payable to "The Save Bob Thompson Fund". Our Treasurer didn't see the humor and asked for "a redo". I made it payable to the unit, but in the remarks area I wrote "In Protest". He accepted that. And all this before the reversal of Bob's suspension was announced.
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Old 10-08-2008, 09:35 PM   #303
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Although this may not be the correct thread for these comments, the subject has been mentioned in this thread.

I can understand the objections to the primary color coats and the gold row parking, but I have no problem with both of these items. There were several times at Bozeman that I was glad that the international and region officers wore the coats. They were easy to spot when I wanted to talk to them about the overflowing dumpster at the VAC open house or to complain about the handicap lifts which did not work on the shuttle buses. In addition, if you wanted to talk to one of them they were easy to spot and if you did not, they were easy to avoid. The same goes for the parking, it is much easier to go down the row of international officers to find one at home rather than walking over the entire University of Montana campus searching for them.


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Old 10-08-2008, 10:52 PM   #304
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Needless to say I am very happy for this action and for Bob.

That only leaves two more things to do.

1, Get Leo out of the line of fire.

2, Work as a team to change the rules that need attention. We need to do this by the rules en masse without anger or rancor. There is an excellant thread on the WBCCI Forums that worked together to prepare a needed rule change.

The EC7 have chosen to do whats best for the club and I commend them for doing that and proving that they are flexible. Clearly more needs to be done and together we can do it.
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Old 10-09-2008, 12:03 AM   #305
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All organizations make mistakes, and this suspension was obviously a huge mistake likely made out of ego and rancor.

That said, the mistake was acknowledged, rectified, and apologized for. A tremendous step I think for our club, and a clear sign that the club can change.

It is my hope that those who have left our club over this issue, or over other signs of an unwillingness to change and grow will reconsider those decisions, and will join the WBCCI once again; for everyone's help, and everyone's voice is needed for this positive step to turn into a positive trend.
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Old 10-09-2008, 07:05 AM   #306
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I think this is a large step for the IBT. It is also a message to Mr. Franklin to "stand down". Very good news indeed. I am glad that cool heads prevailed.
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Old 10-09-2008, 07:48 AM   #307
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The EC7 have chosen to do whats best for the club and I commend them for doing that and proving that they are flexible. Clearly more needs to be done and together we can do it.
Not wanting to be a nit picker here, but the EC7--that is, the Executive Committee, which consists of International officers only--had nothing to do with overturning Bob's suspension. The only connection is that the International President, who is the head of the Executive Committee, picked the members of the IBT to serve as the Appeals Board. (For all we know the International President could have voted against the suspension when the Executive Committee originally voted on it.)

I do believe that it was wise of the International President to pick IBT members who could be expected to overturn the suspension, and I applaud him for that action.

We aren't out of the woods yet. Leo Garvey reports having mounted a spirited written defense in his grievance hearing. Hopefully the Ethics and Grievance Committee will follow the lead of the Appeals Board and decide against any disciplinary action. At this point the best thing for WBCCI is to put this chapter in history behind us and concentrate on making the club's future brighter.
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Old 10-09-2008, 10:08 AM   #308
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I guess Jerry Larson used the "C"(change) word after all. Is it just me or do the letters from the president in the Blue Beret inflame you also?
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Old 10-09-2008, 05:11 PM   #309
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I guess Jerry Larson used the "C"(change) word after all. Is it just me or do the letters from the president in the Blue Beret inflame you also?
Inflame? Maybe not. Confuse? Maybe.

On the one hand I do find Mr. Larson's references to WBCCI being a 'bottom up" organization condescending and at least from my opinon, not correct. Yes, members can initiate changes in international "policy", but it is a long and arduous process. On the other hand, International Leaders can make many things happened much more easily, but in the cases of the Name Change and SOB Motorhomes, they found than some changes, even they cannot implement. And I boubt the greivances against Bob Thompson and Leo Garvey would have gone anywhere if they had been filed by a "mere member" rather than a part International president.

But on the other hand, I have exhanged several emails with International President Jerry Larson on the Thompson and Garvey issues. I received personal responses to all but my last email (and that may yet be coming). Mr. larson does seem to listen when comments are made in a pleasant and non-confrontational way. And just maybe my emails and those from dozens of more members had an impact on how the Bob Thompson issue got resolved. We will probably never know. I also have found it positive that Mr. Larson, in his Presidents Report to International and Region leaders (last 3 issues posted here on SaveWally), has asked for additional feedback from the Region leaders on ideas that have been posted on the WBCCI Forum and on AirForums.

So to me I will says that yes I find I disagree with some of what Mr. Larson writes, but I do think he is trying to be more responsive than recent International Leaders before him, so I give him the benefit of the doubt with regard to what is written in the Presidents Column in the Blue Beret.
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Old 10-09-2008, 07:32 PM   #310
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When I had the Sovereign restored, the owners of South Jersey RV threw in a one-year membership to the WBCCI. Our number was, if memory serves, 8371. I never had the numbers put on our rig, as it had never had them to begin with. We attended one Region 2 DVNJ Chapter Rally, the Turkey Rally...it was okay, but I can't say that I was ecstatic about being there; I could think of worse things to be doing, though.

Our second and final rally was the CBR with the WDCI Chapter. Though it rained pretty much the whole weekend, I have to say that it was a lot more fun. The reason? Well, the WDCI is (or was at the time anyway), for lack of a better description, a non-sanctioned renegade unit. Membership was $1/yr.

What really made me sour to the whole WBCCI experience, though, was when we took a month of leave in the summer of 2006 and visited the Pacific Northwest. As it turned out, our hot-water heater went out on us, just outside of Portland, OR. We took advantage of the day and went to Salem for the International Rally.

I spent a total of maybe an hour and a half listening to a bunch of stick-in-the-butts talk about parliamentary procedure and Robert's Rules, and that insane vote to change the WBCCI's name to AOAI (EIEIO, remember that, Leo?).

We walked out disgusted and decided we weren't going to renew our membership.

Camping should be fun...when a hobby becomes work, it ceases to be a hobby.

Glad I never put those red numbers on.
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Old 10-10-2008, 09:05 AM   #311
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This is good news, but something that should never have happened. Same goes for Leo.
Again, this is supposed to be a camping club and nothing else. We are not studends or privates serving in the IBTs army.
I cannot believe the difference between the WBCCI and the FMCA. One is all hung up on procedures,ceremony and pomp, the other group justs wants people to participate in rallys and enjoy themselfs camping. Must be the aluminum or a disease I call aluminitus.
We will however in light of the recent decision to reinstate Bob Thompson consider reinstating our membership to the WBCCI. We will see how it goes with Leo before our final decision.
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Old 10-10-2008, 10:32 AM   #312
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bfred, one thing that I'm curious about is the difference in the structure of the with the FMCA. How much of the rallies are organized by volunteers? I mean the national rallies. It seems to me that The Rally that Good Sam puts on is organized by a professional organizer for the most part and they have better seminars and headliner entertainers (Suzanne Sommers, Wayne Newton, etc.) and the cost to go to their National Rally is about the same as WBCCI's all volunteer rally. Plus, you get full hook-ups...even when it was held at the same venue in Perry, GA!

It just seems that the International could be run a lot more efficiently and still have a great rally.
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Old 10-10-2008, 11:12 AM   #313
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Quote:
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Is it just me or do the letters from the president in the Blue Beret inflame you also?
Well since this thread has been highjacked about 30 times, getting back on track: as a fellow member of NEU with Bob and his lovely wife I am glad that this is over. We made sure that they knew they were invited to any and every unit rally regardless. Now for the Int'l. President's message in our BB: First I think the international president is nothing more than a figure-head with little or no power. A thankless position rewarded to an individual who has played nicely with the rest of the pack and this is his reward. Notice the HIS, no woman has even gotten close as far as I know. If I am wrong please do correct me. As for the BB, it takes me less than 10 minutes to go from cover to cover. What a great resource and it is not being used to the extent that it can be. Tons of ads (needed to cover the cost I agree) but no content worthy of retaining. What a shame. Anyway, welcome back Bob and Harriett even though as far as we were concerned you never left (or were thrown out). Congratulations on a wonderful Region 1 Rally!
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Old 10-10-2008, 06:20 PM   #314
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There is not a single recreation activity I enjoy that involves Robert's Rules of Order.
This is profound enough to deserve a second look...
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Old 10-10-2008, 06:50 PM   #315
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So what does "suspended" really mean, anyway?

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. . . as a fellow member of NEU with Bob and his lovely wife I am glad that this is over. We made sure that they knew they were invited to any and every unit rally regardless.
You raise an interesting point. Like you, I am very glad this is over--although Leo Garvey is still at risk. I fervently hope that the Ethics and Grievance Committee has lost its enthusiasm for disciplinary action.

While Bob was suspended, I got to wondering just what being suspended really meant. Obviously a suspended member couldn't attend International (no big loss, IMHO) but what would happen if he just showed up at a unit rally? I suspect that in most units nobody would have a thing to say about it--aside from words of support!

So, would the International Police then file grievances against the officers of the unit for failing to enforce the suspension? That could ignite a "chain reaction" pretty quickly.

Hopefully we won't have to find out.
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Old 10-11-2008, 12:50 AM   #316
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It is nice to know that cooler heads prevailed. However, I have been unable to convince my self that attending the intl rally is a worthwhile exercise.
I only join so that I can caravan.

I think most of my dues are wasted by intl. The BB, intl rally, and the funding of all the travel doesn't do anything for me.

When I quit caravanning, I will quit WBCCI.

The pomp & circumstance is also a bit over the top.
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Old 10-11-2008, 04:58 AM   #317
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For someone like me who is new to this organization, I find it sad that there are always people out there trying to destroy organizations like this. ( WBCCI ) This organization was not built for one, but for many. Their will always be things that people will not agree with. For those, remember that you are not the center of the universe. Also, you only get out of the club, any club, what you put into in it. If you are looking for a free hand out, stay home. Live in your own little self-severing world. Its called support of a greater vision. I went to the last international rally, were where you? I to saw the pomp and show, and dismissed it as simple tradition. There are things as tradition to those who have seen or experienced it before. The military has very entrenched tradition. The boy scouts also have tradition. Most of these things for some are just unacceptable. Well this country was built on it. If you donít want to be a part of it, fine, donít join. But please donít try and destroy what other find enjoyable just because you donít like it. I donít go to church, but I donít spend my days trying to convince others that itís a bad thing to contribute to the collection plate. Iím sure if I wanted to dedicate my hours, I could find all types of arguments about all sorts of organizations that I donít agree with. So on that note, if you donít like it, maybe you should join and work at changing it for the better instead of destroy it for the mass who enjoy it. I just think itís a shame that there are always people who are willing to shoot you down instead of lending a helping hand. They say itís always easier to be negative, but I donít find it as much fun, just self-serving for those that are of a smaller self-worth. Just something to think about. Dan
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Old 10-11-2008, 06:12 AM   #318
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I suspect that in most units nobody would have a thing to say about it--aside from words of support!

So, would the International Police then file grievances against the officers of the unit for failing to enforce the suspension? That could ignite a "chain reaction" pretty quickly.

Hopefully we won't have to find out.
I can assure you that Metro NY is SOLIDLY behind our Unit President Leo and his First Mate Gail.
Like the rest of you, we will sit and wait. We are hopeful. We need to keep reminding ourselves that we are a camping club of buddies.
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Old 10-12-2008, 07:20 AM   #319
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With all due respect, Dan, I must disagree. I'm a relatively new vintage Airstream owner and not a WBCCI member. I've read this thread with no preconceived notions about the WBCCI. My impression of L'Affair Thompson is that he simply said aloud what many members were and are thinking. Perhaps his thoughts were worded a bit strongly, but to many members the suspension seemed unfair. This generated responses including this thread. In my opinion, most of these responses were not by folks who want to "destroy" the WBCCI, but by members who want a social club to change.

Here's my thing, Dan. I don't think it's fair or particularly kind to make broad generalizations about either the people who enjoy the existing WBCCI or the people who would prefer the WBCCI to change. The WBCCI has problems... but so does every organization. In my experience, the best way to address these sorts of issues is to focus on the problem without rushing to judgment on people who might hold a different opinion than you. I believe some of the club members who spoke out in favor of Mr. Thompson are intelligent people of good conscience who have contributed mightily to the WBCCI. Perhaps some are not. In the face of our own limited and imperfect information and perceptions, I suggest we give everyone the benefit of having positive motives (and the usual amount of "self worth")... at least until clearly proven otherwise.

Just some food for thought.
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Old 10-12-2008, 08:57 PM   #320
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I'm going to reconsider my earlier decision to suspend myself based on Leo's position stating that we should work within the system. However I will wait to send my dues until it is clear that the Ethics Committee wil stand down (this is the normal phrasing, right?)

I think the decision on Leo's case will be an appropriate barometer.

Pat
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