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Old 10-12-2008, 10:14 PM   #321
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Cowboy wisdom

This here thread sore could use some good old Cowboy wisdom.

"Better to shoot off your rifle by mistake than your mouth on purpose."
"Once you know the system is rotten enjoy it"
"When you realize the world ain't perfect,life eases up"

"Things go better,it seems to me,when I only mind my own teepee."

Now thats John Deer green
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Old 10-13-2008, 08:12 AM   #322
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FWIW – I spent this weekend at a WBCCI rally (had a ball!) and engaged in a few long talks with some of the regional hooty hoots.

The Thompson affair was first on my agenda. I was also pretty open about my own feelings concerning the clubs shortcomings and did offer time to help correct those problems.

I’m short on time so I will cut to the chase:
What came out of it all was the feeling, on my part, that the system worked – albeit slowly. The grievance was overturned and the action of creating a grievance out of a lively debate has pretty well backfired on the grievers.

In a way this all has been a good thing since this event has brought focus to a range of problems in the club.

In a real sense this has been a pivotal wakeup call to the club.

Everyone – from top brass to rank and file members are aware there are structural problems that need to be addressed and the group is beginning to face them. Committees are being formed - overdue conversations are taking place - change is starting to happen. They are aware the life of the club is on the line and are forming better quality questions. From those questions (being an optimist), good answers will be developed.

Just remember, change makes people uncomfortable and can come slowly. But change is on the way.

I know some folks will piss and moan about things being too little, too late, too left, too right, too hot, too cold – as for me, I will work to make Wally (and the Airforums list) proud.
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Old 10-13-2008, 09:04 AM   #323
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What came out of it all was the feeling, on my part, that the system worked – albeit slowly. The grievance was overturned and the action of creating a grievance out of a lively debate has pretty well backfired on the grievers.

In a way this all has been a good thing since this event has brought focus to a range of problems in the club.

In a real sense this has been a pivotal wakeup call to the club.
I hope you're right. I too have talked with many people about this (including my region officers) and the majority of them think the plan to "rid the club of malcontents" via the grievance process was a big mistake.

I guess we will find out soon enough by seeing what happens with Leo. If the International folks have gotten the message, I expect that the grievance against him will be dismissed. If not, then I guess "the game is on again". Lord, I hope not. With the economy going down the tubes WBCCI is going to be facing enough problems without a civil war on top of them.
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Old 10-13-2008, 10:23 AM   #324
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Cowboy wisdom? Sounds like you're mostly speaking French here, circa 1940. I'm sure you've just insulted real cowboys everywhere...

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Old 10-13-2008, 05:28 PM   #325
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I'm not sure the powers that be can dismiss a grievance, once filed and brought forward from the grievance committee. I think it requires the complaint be dropped, once the particulars determined valid as grounds for grievance. Otherwise, it moves forward.

I'm completely unaware of the particulars or the stage this one may be in. Patience may be needed...again.
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Old 10-13-2008, 05:37 PM   #326
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That's incorrect; it must be filed in accordance with certain parameters.

If not its dismissal is pro forma.

As one example, a grievance filed beyond 30 days of an alleged infraction is invalid on its face.

J Larson dismissed one on those grounds in July or August.
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Old 10-13-2008, 06:48 PM   #327
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RUMSHIP, DiggerBear, and Jimmini,
I think you have it right. The Club process did work and Bob and Harriet are back.

As for the pissers and moaners? If they don't like it then they need to leave. Do quitters really need so much attention? And let those of us who want to belong continue to have an organization in which we are willing to invest our time, energy, and dues. Without the quitters sabotaging the Club we are trying to improve and sustain. Our Club isn't perfect, but complaining doesn't improve it. Do something constructive or just leave. And for those who never belonged, how can you fairly judge?

Proud to belong and contribute!
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Old 10-13-2008, 07:08 PM   #328
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Originally Posted by Nuvite-F View Post
I hope you're right. I too have talked with many people about this (including my region officers) and the majority of them think the plan to "rid the club of malcontents" via the grievance process was a big mistake.

I guess we will find out soon enough by seeing what happens with Leo. If the International folks have gotten the message, I expect that the grievance against him will be dismissed. If not, then I guess "the game is on again". Lord, I hope not. With the economy going down the tubes WBCCI is going to be facing enough problems without a civil war on top of them.
Again its all about reducing the amount of wind for the sails that some want to fill.
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Old 10-13-2008, 08:25 PM   #329
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RUMSHIP, DiggerBear, and Jimmini,
I think you have it right. The Club process did work and Bob and Harriet are back.

As for the pissers and moaners? If they don't like it then they need to leave. Do quitters really need so much attention? And let those of us who want to belong continue to have an organization in which we are willing to invest our time, energy, and dues. Without the quitters sabotaging the Club we are trying to improve and sustain. Our Club isn't perfect, but complaining doesn't improve it. Do something constructive or just leave. And for those who never belonged, how can you fairly judge?

Proud to belong and contribute!
Well said, to bad some don't get it.
"Ya can tell a real winner by the way he plays a losin hand"
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Old 10-13-2008, 08:44 PM   #330
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I'm not sure the powers that be can dismiss a grievance, once filed and brought forward from the grievance committee. I think it requires the complaint be dropped, once the particulars determined valid as grounds for grievance. Otherwise, it moves forward.
Go read Article V of the bylaws (on the WBCCI web site). The Ethics and Grievance Committee hears the case and makes a recommendation to the International Executive Committee. The Executive Committee can then do whatever they want with it. It's the Executive Committee (the 7 International officers) who make the call.
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Old 10-13-2008, 08:59 PM   #331
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Wally Byam Code of Ethics which includes “To be ever mindful of what we say or print with respect to the effect on others so as to avoid disharmony and ill feelings among club members”.

Sincerely

Always great to hear that there is a FAIR process that keeps the club in check - or any organization for that matter.

But least we forget how people may get into hot water in the first place.

Yes timing stank I will admit. I certainly do not claim to know all the ins and outs either.

But I have read one heck of a lot of words that border abusing the above code of ethic..... (to include myself at times during the name change and MOHO issues)

This is not about Roberts Rule, or law and order, or any of the other things people are not happy with as such - this is just plain and simple respect for the people who hold office at any given time and for fellow members.

I believe all people are nice and mean well, but there is a time and a place for everything and a manner in which we write and express our gratitude and our dissatisfaction. For every action there is a reaction.

Sometimes in the heat of the moment or from simple frustration we just don't take the time "to respect the effect" of our words "on others" - regardless of the position we have held or the hard work we have put into a club or organization we feel passionate about, nor how nice we are as individuals.

When I read the reinstatement letter that was posted here, it was very clear to me that the message was sent with the above code of ethic attached as a "heavy" reminder - to which all WBCCI members are encouraged to abide.

The initial letter, from a member who holds office I remember not of the valid message or points being put forth and addressed, but of the manner it may have been received if I had read it not knowing the person from adam (which I don't) and how it would make me feel if I were in the shoes of another or even holding office and being addressed by a fellow officer/member.

JMHO.....and just one member who after this unfortunate incident will think twice about what and how I write to and about the club I am a member of.
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Old 10-14-2008, 09:13 AM   #332
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I remember talking with Leo about this a long time ago before he started Save Wally (correct me if I'm wrong on this, Leo)....the real heart of all of this discontent stems from the fact that, when Wally and friends started the Wally Byam Caravan Club International, the whole point was to have fun, see as much of the world as possible and spread goodwill. What it's turned into is, for lack of a better word, a corporation. It's lost its down-to-earth feel. The K.I.S.S. principle no longer seems to apply to the WBCCI.

The "mal-contents" just want to belong to a club where they can be amongst friends and not worry about voting to do this or that and follow procedure to do it.

I've been in the Army for almost 18 years now. I follow orders on a daily basis. When I am relaxing on my time off, I don't want to follow anyone's orders but the wife and kids. I also want to enjoy the company of my friends who share my same common interests.

I wish the WBCCI well and hope that things do change.
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Old 10-14-2008, 02:49 PM   #333
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The "mal-contents" just want to belong to a club where they can be amongst friends and not worry about voting to do this or that and follow procedure to do it.
Well-said, Frederic! If you look around at the popularity of the AirForums rallies, you will understand why so many folks just don't bother with joining WBCCI.

We have owned our Airstream since 2004, and we joined this year for the first time....in hope that change might happen and to continue on the Wally Byam tradition. Yes, there are more rules than I care to think about, but we joined one of the more "laid back" units....hopefully, that won't be an issue.
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Old 10-14-2008, 03:09 PM   #334
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RUMSHIP, DiggerBear, and Jimmini,
I think you have it right. The Club process did work and Bob and Harriet are back.

As for the pissers and moaners? If they don't like it then they need to leave. Do quitters really need so much attention? And let those of us who want to belong continue to have an organization in which we are willing to invest our time, energy, and dues. Without the quitters sabotaging the Club we are trying to improve and sustain. Our Club isn't perfect, but complaining doesn't improve it. Do something constructive or just leave. And for those who never belonged, how can you fairly judge?

Proud to belong and contribute!

I would like to nominate you to be an International officer, clearly you have the same stuff they do.
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Old 10-15-2008, 09:53 AM   #335
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Off Track

I can honestly say that this thread has gotten off track. I can also report that Bob and his wonderful wife are greatful for a wrong to be made right. I can also say that the actions that resolved the issue were not the pissing and moaning here on the forum, but the help of fellow New England Unit members coming to the aid of Bob and Harriett and filing the proper letters in time for a complete review of the actions taken against him. I am sure that everyone is happy of the positive outcome of all of this and that lessons were learned by all involved. I, along with my fellow unit members look forward to another season of camping with the Thompsons.
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Old 10-15-2008, 10:14 AM   #336
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The time to piss and moan has passed.

This is the time for logical planning and execution of an agenda that truly leads our club from the bottom up.

We have discussed at length the changes we feel would make our club relevent and more member friendly.

Now is the time to focus on that. Pissing and moaning won't save the club. Action to change the future will.
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Old 10-15-2008, 04:17 PM   #337
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A watched pot never boils...while I was absent Bob gets reinstated. CONGRATULATIONS Bob! Don't know if that is "the" proper salutation under the circumstances but I'll use it. I am so glad the suspension was reversed and an apology to the unit, region, Bob and the Mrs. are extended and to be printed in the BB and on the web.
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Old 10-15-2008, 08:55 PM   #338
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I am so glad the suspension was reversed and an apology to the unit, region, Bob and the Mrs. are extended and to be printed in the BB and on the web.
It will be interesting to see if this news is reported in the Blue Beret. The appeals board requested that but I am not aware that they have the authority to order it. (Note that his suspension wasn't reported in the Blue Beret.)

Let's not forget that we are still waiting for "the other shoe to drop" in the matter of Leo Garvey. It is to be hoped that the Executive Committee's enthusiasm for disciplinary action against leaders of the loyal opposition has waned since Bob Thompson's hearing, but that remains to be seen.
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Old 10-15-2008, 09:01 PM   #339
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I think rickandsandi hit the nail on the head (though I admit I have no first-hand knowledge.). All the railing and knashing of teeth did not affect the outcome. But well-placed letters and appeals induced the leadership to forgive the transgressions and restore the status quo ante. I appreciate their forbearance - truly the mark of greatness is the abilty to absolve transgressions.

But isn't there something wrong with an ethics rule that is invoked by hurt feelings? And an enforcement wing to handle the smack-down? I'm an accountant - a CPA - and I have a strong sense about ethics and how important they are to a civilized society. I just have a hard time connecting an ethics failure with impulsive speech.

But, as Jimmini says, one shouldn't run off at the typrewiter. Thanks for the reminder. I would like to know how he got the little red book translated, however.

Pat
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Old 10-17-2008, 06:02 PM   #340
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We can always find the negative in any situation or another reason to moan and groan. It truly is time to look at the up side of this in that the intent was a hoped for reversal of a decision and that took place. An apology was given and an all inclusive one at that which makes it clear that this was a mistake from the start and those involved have been acknowledged both for the good and for the bad done.

That to me says lets get on with fixing the things in the club that we think need fixing. I've noted this on the WBCCI forums - the executive are hearing from a relative few people about issues and have 6,000+ members to keep happy. I suspect the vast majority of the members are not making waves so for the executive to try to keep that vast majority happy they need to know what it is they actually want. Not what this small vocal group are saying, but what the overall majority want the elected stewards of our club to do.

So, if you are a WBCCI member and have not been posting your views on your forum please take the time to do so and encourage others to do so as well. Please offer solutions. That is what we need. There is enough criticism in the world without us adding to it. If you have something that you feel needs to be addressed you need to be able to explain what the problem is, why you believe it is a problem for the majority of the membership, and what you would recommend as a possible solution or if you don't know that, ask other members for their input as to whether they agree and for their suggestions. Make sure you also are offering your time to help to drive this through to completion. Just dropping a problem on someones lap and saying here, I/we don't like this, you fix it, is not the way a volunteer organization works in my view.

If you are not a WBCCI member and want to be part of the solution then you need to step to the plate and join. We need you to join because we need your insight and your help getting the club back on track.

If you are a MAL then we need your help in figuring out a way to get your votes counted. Being silent if you are unhappy the way MAL's are accounted for is not the way to get what you need. Raising it here and not on the WBCCI forum as well is nothing more than the whiz thing mentioned in earlier posts.

Get involved. This threads issue is no longer current, it has been dealt with effectively and appropriately. So focus on more than just the next issue, help us focus on moving the club as a whole forward. 6,000+ members is still a very large club and there are a lot of very content members in that number. For good reasons. There is great value to be had in this camping club and a few issues that look big and get lots of press and cause folks to not join when in reality those issues are only a small overall piece of a great big outstanding camping fraternity. Come out and play with the rest of us

That's my story and I'm sticking to it
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