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Old 08-29-2008, 04:35 AM   #181
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Originally Posted by Forrest View Post
Has anyone thought of the possibility that this is a trap? I remember once being told by a captain teaching a course on leadership that the definition of leadership is the ability to "manipulate" people into doing what they don't want to do. A good leader is good at manipulation. I don't agree with that kind of leadership, but that is what is taught both in the military and in business.

Look at their resumes. Larson - MBA, BBA, retired Navy officer. Collier - teacher, sales manager, has "enjoyed a variety of leadership roles in the past 40 years." Beu - BA Psychology, Masters Systems Management, Air Command and Staff College. Hechenswiler - police officer for 34 years. All of these men have had courses in leadership, management and organization.
...
Jim Franklin (also former military officer) ...
Hmm.. I too am a former military officer, and struggle with this one. On the one hand I knew several that were just outstanding: one retired navy o-6 in particular with whom I was privileged to have several frank discussions on life, the world, and our role in it.

Among the good, always, always the officer labored intensely for the people in his/her charge. It was accepted as axiom that "if I take care of my people, they will take care of me." Among the very good, I was struck by the extent to which this went. Manipulation? maybe, but at some personal expense, and always for the good of the country, never the good of just one person.

About the other-than-good, we shall not speak.
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Old 08-29-2008, 05:55 AM   #182
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opps he did it again, Admiral Jerry

So you think the International President isn't playing games with us? Look what just turned up all of a sudden... Ah, and just after you all went way out of your way to thank him so sweetly for participating. __________________________________________________ ___


From: Jerry Larson <jlarson144@
To: Tom Collier <collier145@
Ralph Forrester <zoral279@
Norm Beu <beu@
Jerry Larson <jlarson144@
Jerry Collins <jc6960mc@
Carolyn Florence <wbcci3500c@
Barry Heckenswiler <heck257@
Jodi Morris WBCCI <JMorris@
Dot Stengel WBCCI <DStengel@
Cindy Reed WBCCI <CReed@
Bev Suttles WBCCI <bsuttles@
Franklin D. Sanders <franklinsanders@
Don McKelvay <silverbulletspider@
Julian Clements <dandylynne@
Bill Johnjulio <FlintlocksbyJJ@
Bob Moyers <boblee5244@
Bill McManemin <weemack@
Betty Sullivan <basullivan@
Douglas Wylie <dew50@
R.B. Bernd <rnzbernd@
Janie Lichtfuss <janiekipp@
Don Clark <k9ebon@
Theda McGrath <TEMcGrath@
Joe Bublis <JCBUBL@
Janet Kendig <jkendighatlady@
Daryl Ewles <obdaryl@
Bonnie Nester <BNESTER1@
Bob Bennett <caravan1@
Raynold Lemaire <RaynoldLemaire@
Linda Amme <prof899@
Loretta Moss <lmoss324@
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Bob Laliberte <blalib@
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Subject: INTERNATION PRESIDENT'S COMMENTS ON WBCCI & GRIEVANCES
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 18:05:11

Greetings,

The attached Microsoft word file is for your information and for you to pass to your VPs/Staffs and members as you desire. I am also posting it on www.wbcci.org under Forums and the 2020 Committee where the current subject is being discussed. Once posted on the Forum, I do not intend to be responding to any further Forum Discussion on this subject. I will consider still answering e-mails on the subject that are sent to me with no other addressees or copies to..

Regards,

Jerry

Jerome (Jerry) Larson
International President
WBCCI, the Airstream RV Association
803 E. Pike Street
P.O. Box 612
Jackson Center, OH 45334
Cell: (555) 555-5555
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Old 08-29-2008, 06:01 AM   #183
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Arrogance and Frustration

Forrest,
I beleive that they may have had a plan to control this situation fueled by Arrogance. I think they did not expect the outcry and support from the membership for Leo and Bob.

Military types are used to having control and not much BACK TALK which has created much Frustration for them.

They are used to getting and giving salutes, smiles, hood winks and handshakes. This is not what they bargained for.


I actually would perfer to consult with them and help them through this. It is not clear to me that they know what to do from thier actions or lack there of.
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Old 08-29-2008, 09:55 AM   #184
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Man, what a stir this has caused... made national news. See it on my blog.
Anna Lumanum: My friends are too much....
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Old 08-29-2008, 10:02 AM   #185
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In response to post #188

Don,

Thank you for your input and recommendations. It is through this type of
support and constructively sharing of opinions that together we will make a
Good Club into a Great, or maybe event an Exceptional, Club.

I have added Raynold Lemaire, Chairman of the Ethics & Grievance Committee
in my reply to you so that your inputs will be included in an evaluation of
updating the current WBCCI Policy on this subject.

Regards, Jerry

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Old 08-29-2008, 10:06 AM   #186
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Smile Happy Labor Day weekend to everyone here too!

Dear President Larson,

You are welcome.

I have some other concerns relating to confidentiality and law enforcement authority as well as the Equal Protection Clause of the 14th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, but I have not thought them out fully yet. My 8-year old son and I are leaving mom home this weekend and heading out with our trailer together. If the weather is as bad as I think it's going to be on Saturday, I may have some time to figure out how to reconcile my concerns.

Have a nice weekend,
Don Collimore, #5399

Cc: Airforums.com
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Old 08-29-2008, 10:16 AM   #187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 62overlander View Post
Man, what a stir this has caused... made national news. See it on my blog.
Anna Lumanum: My friends are too much....
Who needs buttons and stickers when we could have tattoos and body painting to further the campaign.

Thanks for the laugh.
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Old 08-29-2008, 11:05 AM   #188
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Ed, these are not just any guys, these are members that have been elected by other members,
Joe,
Let me ask how many people ran in those elections? If I’m guessing right no one “Ran” but the individuals that won. Is that truly elected? Heck I was “elected” a Unit officer wasn’t hard no one else want the job! I volunteered too.

As for an open mind I have one, I think over the 10 years I have been in this club that has been demonstrated over and over again. BUT when I read that people want to attempt or insinuate financial collapse of the WBCCI because they are upset then I would call that closed minded.

Just my closed mind working overtime.
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Old 08-29-2008, 11:28 AM   #189
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Did I miss the plans to financially collapse the WBCCI? Have I read the WBCCI will financially collapse on its own if we don't recruit and retain more members before the bank book is empty running into the red currently and projected for Madison, and that even without an alternative rally to show Bob and the leadership that we support Bob's efforts to get due measure of propriety and representation and that we do not approve the IBT's suspension for Bob taking a stand and pointing out bonifide grievances to his fellow team?

I'm thinking somewhere along the way we started to side track and found personal offense. I'm sure having an International in your home state is exciting, I know it was for me in Lansing Michigan. Perhaps you could attend both rallies. But what we need to do right now is stick together to right wrongs in the club. Perhaps you don't agree with what is being offered as possible solutions, that's well taken by your comments but we need not divide and lose sight of the issue and trying to resolve the problem of being stonewalled out of OUR club. Let's keep the ideas coming.
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Old 08-29-2008, 12:43 PM   #190
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? Wake up ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Emerick View Post
Joe,
BUT when I read that people want to attempt or insinuate financial collapse of the WBCCI because they are upset then I would call that closed minded.

Just my closed mind working overtime.
I realize that there is an issue here understanding the reality of what is being discussed. This thread does not start out with a call for the financial collapse of WBCCI.

My understanding is that Bob and Leo are being acted against and taken away from their dear friends and fellow WBCCI members for what I say are reasons unknown. I say unknown, because as of yet there is NO word from anybody but the accused (at least in Leo's case).

You feel stronly about your personal and private loss should there be a financial collapse of WBCCI. I can understand that. You would be upset because through no fault of your own, you would lose an organization that you hold dear.................Now think about that on an even more intimate level, a leader you and your peers have chosen, because of their ability to bring a year in/year out excellent seaon of good Airstream camping fun, being removed by "SOME GUY" whom you have never met and therefore could not have respect for (that needs to be earned). This is what the thead started for.

Ultimately one must ask where is your allegiance..... the people whose faces you see year in and year out enjoying the very activity you cherish so highly? or "SOME GUY" who has a beef for unknown reasons. I am in Leo's unit. My allegiance is to my family and their interests. That means that an attack on Leo adversely affects my family and our ability to enjoy our camping seasons because "SOME GUY" excercising his anti-american, speech denying, confidentiality hiding nonsense. It is THAT person who has INITIATED disharmony in the membership. Remember, Leo's communication was directed to a body of persons whom have the ability to hear and act/not act on the issues he raised.... mere communications (not derogatory or factually inaccurate). If you are so concerned about this, you should be writing the leadership to see what their side is. Personally I haven't heard a thing about it from them. As an affected member I think I was entitled to be part of the conversation before any action is taken. Leo was courteous and courageous enough to bring it to us.... not them. I'm inclined to believe Leo merely because he owns the stage because he is the only one with any answer.
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Old 08-29-2008, 02:26 PM   #191
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Actually it was Bob (LI Pets) who made the first post on the open forum. For those of us present at Region 1 Rally in PEI with Bob T, it was presented and made aware to the community of the New England Unit (of which Bob T. is a member) by our unit president. For those who were included in Bob's original email we were kept in the loop by Bob himself. For the extent of which this thread has gone it has traveled thousands of miles of highway and gravel roads and for sure has deviated from its original course. Currently Bob T. is working with fellow members of NEU on a solid course of action which only he can take. Our support and best wishes for a quick resolve is what Bob T needs right now.
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Old 08-29-2008, 03:33 PM   #192
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Standards

When President Washington left the office of president in 1797 he did something remarkable. He left. This gift to a young country cannot be forgotten because it set the stage for every president since. What would our federal government be like today if every past president, and every cabinet member simply left the elected office and moved into an unofficial cabinet of past presidents with direct access to the president?

Citizens of the United States have for the most part lived in a environment where government works to serve the public. I'm not saying our governments always get it right, but I am saying they try. When they get it wrong, or their actions put them at odds with the public the ever active self correcting machinery of public elections is available to correct the problem. When government tries to hid things from the public the long arm of the freedom of information act, and a free press have prov-en up to the challenge to expose.

As a citizen of the United States, and a veteran of the US military, I can honestly say that many have given their lives to allow fellow citizens the freedom to disagree. The freedom to disagree with each other, and the freedom to disagree with government. I am also unaware of anyone loosing their citizenship for calling a politician a failure. Pointing out government's failure is expected. Our leaders may not like it but it's part of the process and they deal with it.

There have been many post concerning the actions of two fellow members of the WBCCI, and the response our leaders have taken against them. I do not personally know ether one of these WBCCI members, but I have followed their efforts to affect the direction our club is taking. At first glance one seemed gruff, combative, and at times insulting. But if one takes the time to look a different personality emerges. A personality that cares and is willing to invest both time and money to help steer us through the rapids. Keep in mid no one ever gets angry about something they don't care about.

The heavy handed response these fellow members have received from our WBCCI leadership for criticizing is contrary to the basic values most of us confess. How can we accept a lower ethical standard from our WBCCI leaders then we do our government?

With that said... I hope everyone enjoys the holidays!
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Old 08-29-2008, 03:48 PM   #193
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To help Bob, please take the time to send our WBCCI president an email or letter showing member support for Bob and his right to voice his concerns. When doing so, please be cordial and to the point. Thank you.
I also wrote Jerry Larson a cordial email suggesting that they suspension of someone who cares so much for the club isn't healthy. He responded promptly and was very cordial in return. I believe that people like Jerry care very much for WBCCI, just have different thoughts on how to keep the organization viable.

In my job, I work with non-profit retirement communities that are getting ready for dramatic changes brought on by the generational shfit (sound familar). In every case there are people lined up against change and some for change. I have found, without exception, that good people can end up on what I consider the wrong side of the issue. Sometimes through discussions and sharing of information we transform the organization. I will also say there are times when I fail, and the organization goes in a different direction. In that case I turn my attention to another organization. One that is willing to share a vision that will transform it into the future. It is always tough to walk away, but the only way that I can remain passionate about what I do for a living.

I think everyone related to this has that decision to make, become involved? stay involved? change your focus? One thing I know for sure is that when good people start treating other good people badly, it probably time to walk away.

Personally, I will continue to support people like Bob, but acknowledge good people like Jerry. At least for now.

ps. I would also like to note that I think the 2020 committee is a huge step forward and we should probably give them some credit for their efforts.
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Old 08-31-2008, 06:50 PM   #194
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Jerry Larson engaging in dialogue on WBCCI Forum

Folks,

As of this eveniing, WBCCI International President Jerry Larson is engaging in constructive dialog on the WBCCI Forum. I take this as a positive sign. He has posted on the Membership Questions/Affecting Change thread

WBCCI Forum -

If you would like to engage him, please be calm and courteous--let's not blow this opportunity--and post your name and WBCCI number.

Cheers,
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Old 08-31-2008, 08:46 PM   #195
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That's a step in the right direction I suppose except where he demands your full name and WBCCI number.

Internet users are entitled to Anonymity on the Internet, in fact there is case law on the issue.

Perhaps Mr. Larson wishes to inhibit that right.

Since Leo's charges were based on what he allegedly posted on the Internet. Jim Franklin may file a grievance if he thinks your violating the ethics in what you post.

Jerry should make it clear that any post will not be used to file any sort of a complaint against the poster.
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Old 08-31-2008, 09:55 PM   #196
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Actualy, it's not quite that simple. Yes, we are guaranteed anonymity on the internet, but that does not imply that we're able to use privately held databases and software (e.g., forums) without rules. There are rules governing the use of every forum I'm aware of. Perhaps the WBCCI may decide that it wants to make rules regarding the use of its forum software.

Personally, I don't mind revealing my identity in exchange for the use of the forums!


Lynn


Quote:
Originally Posted by LI Pets View Post
That's a step in the right direction I suppose except where he demands your full name and WBCCI number.

Internet users are entitled to Anonymity on the Internet, in fact there is case law on the issue.

Perhaps Mr. Larson wishes to inhibit that right.

Since Leo's charges were based on what he allegedly posted on the Internet. Jim Franklin may file a grievance if he thinks your violating the ethics in what you post.

Jerry should make it clear that any post will not be used to file any sort of a complaint against the poster.
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Old 08-31-2008, 10:57 PM   #197
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LI Pets View Post
That's a step in the right direction I suppose except where he demands your full name and WBCCI number.

Internet users are entitled to Anonymity on the Internet, in fact there is case law on the issue.

Perhaps Mr. Larson wishes to inhibit that right.

Since Leo's charges were based on what he allegedly posted on the Internet. Jim Franklin may file a grievance if he thinks your violating the ethics in what you post.

Jerry should make it clear that any post will not be used to file any sort of a complaint against the poster.
Bob,

If you are uncomfortable it is an easy thing to just keep using your avatar.

I come from a different school of thought than you - I would prefer to know who I'm engaging with.

If I am posting in a civil and mature manner, adding value to the threads in a mostly positive and constructive manner, and for that I am challenged and punted from the club do I really want to be a part of that club anyway? Not a chance.

You post some good stuff. It is unfortunate that you feel you can't do this openly.

Jerry is trying to engage in the dialog on the Forum. It is encouraging to see. I'd like to see that continue. I would be very disappointed if he disengaged because every time he came on he was taken to task and unable to provide the valuable information he is privy to. He, like I, would appreciate knowing who he is engaging with. I can't see anyone posting anything out of line on this thread, particularly given the specific purpose of the thread and the expectations of the thread initiator. So far it has remained pretty much focused on trying to move change initiatives forward. For those of you who are WBCCI members it would be beneficial for you to join the thread, read it, and participate if you are willing.

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Old 09-01-2008, 02:26 AM   #198
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Why Does IBT want your full name, WBCCI number?

Well, golly. What is the title of this thread?


Bob Thompson suspended from WBCCI for expressing his opinions about the IBT
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Old 09-01-2008, 07:38 AM   #199
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Yeah, this thread has pretty much meandered all over the road, part of it my fault, too.

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Old 09-01-2008, 08:45 AM   #200
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Lynn,

I think Foiled's finely distilled, vintage sarcasm went right over your head. Go back to her post again and read what she said.
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