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Old 12-20-2009, 09:38 AM   #127
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There was a guitar player who used an airstream trailer as a backdrop on one of his album covers that got me started in the first place.
That was a Ry Cooder album; great artist, killer photograph.
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Old 12-20-2009, 09:46 AM   #128
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weighing land yachts versus house boats.

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Steve, if it floats, but doesn't have sails, its merely a buoy. Real boats have sails.

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Old 12-20-2009, 09:52 AM   #129
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Roger, your response doesn't really qualify as a perfect oxymoron. But I'm glad you noticed Steve's effort.
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Old 12-20-2009, 09:58 AM   #130
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What is going on with the WBCCI is generational warefare the same as in the sixties. The older generation (the establishment) is running the WBCCI and wants the next generation (the baby boomers) to fall in line, to follow orders like robots. They actually want them to be lemmings. That is why the IBT an Pee Wee think that if you don't fall in line then you are being negative. To think independently is to be trouble maker. The real problem is that the generations are very different in attitudes and beliefs. In my opinion authority needs to earn respect and don't get it automatically because of the position. The older generation believes that the position in and of itself should generate the respect. Thus the differences in how the IBT is viewed.

The WBCCCI at this point has a monopoly. The only way to see real change in the WBCCI sooner than 20 years (when the older generation is gone) is through real competition. This will only happen with a competing organized Airstream camping club that is a real threat to the WBCCI. The Air Forums doesn't fully do this. Look at AT&T back in the early eighties when they had a monopoly - how much did long distance calling cost. Today I have unlimited nationwide calling for $30 a month. Do you think that would be the case if there were only one telecommunications carrier today for all calls including wireless?

It has become appearant by Pee Wee's posting over the last year that he has his own agenda. To protect his mother's legacy and the organization that she built; that is fine. His statement in the past (I'm paraphasing) that the WBCCI is the same as it was 50 years ago and implying that is OK told me all I need to know. You can start your flamming. I think Pee Wee is a great guy but no god. Pee Wee is great for history but is not the future.

I agree with Rob; life is short and dealing with all the BS surrounding the WBCCI is a waste of my precious time. I am in the WBCCI but if they raise the dues I will probably not renew. I am only in the WBCCI to camp with friends. I would join a new club; that decision can be independent as to whether I remain in the WBCCI. To be honest the only reason I remain in the WBCCI is because of the friends I have. If it wasn't for them I would leave today.

I believe that 2010 will be a very contentious year for the WBCCI. I will give my 2010 WBCCI predictions like the tabloids do - Leo will be expelled, Bob Thompson will announce the formation of a new Airstream club, the warefare will become more bitter, some progressive units will talk about leaving the WBCCI but will not, there will be more flamming wars.

My new year resolution is to do less with the WBCCI and do more camping.

Have a happy new year all.
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Old 12-20-2009, 10:11 AM   #131
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Very concise and well stated. Agree with all you have said
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Old 12-20-2009, 10:17 AM   #132
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Misconception

Quote:
Originally Posted by Air Apparent View Post
What is going on with the WBCCI is generational warefare the same as in the sixties. The older generation (the establishment) is running the WBCCI and wants the next generation (the baby boomers) to fall in line, to follow orders like robots. They actually want them to be lemmings. That is why the IBT an Pee Wee think that if you don't fall in line then you are being negative. To think independently is to be trouble maker. The real problem is that the generations are very different in attitudes and beliefs. In my opinion authority needs to earn respect and don't get it automatically because of the position. The older generation believes that the position in and of itself should generate the respect. Thus the differences in how the IBT is viewed.

The WBCCCI at this point has a monopoly. The only way to see real change in the WBCCI sooner than 20 years (when the older generation is gone) is through real competition. This will only happen with a competing organized Airstream camping club that is a real threat to the WBCCI. The Air Forums doesn't fully do this. Look at AT&T back in the early eighties when they had a monopoly - how much did long distance calling cost. Today I have unlimited nationwide calling for $30 a month. Do you think that would be the case if there were only one telecommunications carrier today for all calls including wireless?

It has become appearant by Pee Wee's posting over the last year that he has his own agenda. To protect his mother's legacy and the organization that she built; that is fine. His statement in the past (I'm paraphasing) that the WBCCI is the same as it was 50 years ago and implying that is OK told me all I need to know. You can start your flamming. I think Pee Wee is a great guy but no god. Pee Wee is great for history but is not the future.

I agree with Rob; life is short and dealing with all the BS surrounding the WBCCI is a waste of my precious time. I am in the WBCCI but if they raise the dues I will probably not renew. I am only in the WBCCI to camp with friends. I would join a new club; that decision can be independent as to whether I remain in the WBCCI. To be honest the only reason I remain in the WBCCI is because of the friends I have. If it wasn't for them I would leave today.

I believe that 2010 will be a very contentious year for the WBCCI. I will give my 2010 WBCCI predictions like the tabloids do - Leo will be expelled, Bob Thompson will announce the formation of a new Airstream club, the warefare will become more bitter, some progressive units will talk about leaving the WBCCI but will not, there will be more flamming wars.

My new year resolution is to do less with the WBCCI and do more camping.

Have a happy new year all.
Where did I say fall in? Boy, is that misinformation in your comments. I have only told people to be civil and use their imagination, leadership, and love of Airstream to rejuvenate the Club. I can't believe your statements. WOW! Stay on course. I find as many problems with your side of the ledger as I do with IBT side of the ledger. I just go about what needs to be done in a positive, no destructive manner. WOW!

It really doesn't matter what people say or do on the forums, I will soon trash the sites on my computer. My friends know how to get a hold of me, so that's good. The rabble continue to rabble about. Positive rebuilding is good, anger is bad.
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Old 12-20-2009, 10:25 AM   #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Air Apparent View Post
What is going on with the WBCCI is generational warefare the same as in the sixties. The older generation (the establishment) is running the WBCCI and wants the next generation (the baby boomers) to fall in line, to follow orders like robots. They actually want them to be lemmings. That is why the IBT an Pee Wee think that if you don't fall in line then you are being negative. To think independently is to be trouble maker. The real problem is that the generations are very different in attitudes and beliefs. In my opinion authority needs to earn respect and don't get it automatically because of the position. The older generation believes that the position in and of itself should generate the respect. Thus the differences in how the IBT is viewed. ...
You know, there was a time when I wondered if the generational differences between baby boomers and the older generation might explain some of what's going on. If interested, you can find websites that explain some of these differences; you can apply them to the situation within the wbcci to see how this works out. And the case is pretty compelling.

But now I'm not so sure. The problem is that the generation before the baby boomers is now aging a lot, probably no longer RVing; the baby boomers ARE the 60+ generation. For all intents and purposes, those in control of the wbcci are, in all likelihood, baby boomers.

Surely, then, some of the artefacts of an earlier generation are still maintained within the wbcci. I'm thinking here of the uniforms, the flag ceremonies, the standing at attention, and so forth. We've all seen pictures of this kind of thing. But the people who originated these customs are probably no longer with us, or no longer in control of the wbcci.

So what does explain the problems if not generation? Well, of course, as noted, some artefacts are still there, and these cause some pain. But if that were the whole story, we'd have little to deal with. Customs fade with time, some faster than others. BFD.

No, I think the essential issues involve money. These are well-known issues, so there is no need to review them here -- other than to note that it's kind of doubtful that these central issues are, in fact, generational ones.


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Old 12-20-2009, 10:50 AM   #134
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Lynn, not all boomers are the same. While a lot of boomers desired change back in the '60's, many did not. They joined the conservative movement and supported the Vietnam War. I expect that group are the ones who now control the WBCCI and endorse the top down structure and the embellishments that go with it.

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Old 12-20-2009, 11:13 AM   #135
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Originally Posted by PeeWee View Post
It really doesn't matter what people say or do on the forums, I will soon trash the sites on my computer. My friends know how to get a hold of me, so that's good. The rabble continue to rabble about. Positive rebuilding is good, anger is bad.
PeeWee, I thank you for all you've done, and the rich history you've made so clear, and I mean absolutely no disrespect, but how can pitch positive solutions on things and also refer to people as Lemmings and Rabble?

FWIW I hear you in your posts that you don't think people jumping ship is positive, but you state that you're doing the exact same thing with the forums etc. Hopefully you can decide to simply not read threads you don't wish to see the content of and participate and spread your knowledge here in other threads (i.e. I avoid the axle threads).


Happy Holidays Everyone!
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Old 12-20-2009, 11:18 AM   #136
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If Tim is reading this, my apologies. No disrespect was intended to you, Colin, Frank or anyone else involved with the VAP. Hopefully, the intent of my post was not lost.

Rob (and Tim, Colin, Frank, Andy, Ute and many others) have earned my respect and gratitude because of what they have done... not in some bygone era, but now. I'm interested in their ideas, not what happend on a caravan before I was born.

I don't think this is generational. I'm under 50 and on the very tail end of the baby boom. I think the essence of owning an Airstream, particularly a vintage Airstream has changed. My grandmother wanted an Airstream because of the prestige. It was a rolling a status symbol, not unlike the Cadillac my grandfather owned. For my generation (and those younger), I think owning an Airstream has become an iconoclastic choice. It's a rejection of the mass-market "same old box" trailers and an embrace of an elegant, efficient and wonderfully malleable design.

I think my grandmother (now 87) would enjoy the WBCCI... that is, if she were well enough to travel. If she had joined in 1947 or some odd year, she would have kept sending in her dues religiously because she would trust without question that it was the right thing to do. It's a bit funny, really. My grandmother is delighted that we've bought an Airstream, but for reasons that have nothing to do with why we actually bought it. And goodness knows, I love my grandmother too much (and know her too well) to try to explain.

For my grandmother, the Overlander would have been a parade float. For us, it is an escape capsule. I think that, as much as anything, explains why the WBCCI is not the club of choice for younger generations of Airstream owners.
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Old 12-20-2009, 11:35 AM   #137
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Lynn, not all boomers are the same. While a lot of boomers desired change back in the '60's, many did not. They joined the conservative movement and supported the Vietnam War. I expect that group are the ones who now control the WBCCI and endorse the top down structure and the embellishments that go with it.

Gene
Precisely. Which, in turn, suggests that a generational difference doesn't really explain what gives.

Lynn
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Old 12-20-2009, 12:12 PM   #138
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It really doesn't matter what people say or do on the forums, I will soon trash the sites on my computer. My friends know how to get a hold of me, so that's good. The rabble continue to rabble about. Positive rebuilding is good, anger is bad.
Pee Wee I am sorry to hear that. Members respect you and your sharing your personal and the club histories has always been very interesting and generous of you to spend your time thusly.

I am more deeply sorry that you must be driven to distraction and impacted personally so negatively as to respond to the forums openly as you now often do. I have never heard you insulted on any of the forums and usually highly venerated. All we can deduce is that there must be more than has met our eye and we bid you a fond farewell and thank you for your contributions of stories and pictures of the rich Wally Byam heritage. That was priceless. You were kind to do so. Godspeed.
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Old 12-20-2009, 12:12 PM   #139
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I have things to do and places to go

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PeeWee, I thank you for all you've done, and the rich history you've made so clear, and I mean absolutely no disrespect, but how can pitch positive solutions on things and also refer to people as Lemmings and Rabble?

FWIW I hear you in your posts that you don't think people jumping ship is positive, but you state that you're doing the exact same thing with the forums etc. Hopefully you can decide to simply not read threads you don't wish to see the content of and participate and spread your knowledge here in other threads (i.e. I avoid the axle threads).


Happy Holidays Everyone!
The fourm was always a lark. I enjoyed sharing history. I will be attending rallies. I will be continuing to add to the Sierra Nevada Units history section. I will be doing interviews. I will be writing a journal. I do believe that there are positive soulutions to any problem. That destruction is not answer. I'm am not leaving the world of Wally Byam, Helen Byam Schwamborn, or Airstream.

I will see many of you on the road, at rallies, on the phone, in my e-mail box.

I'm not running. Just changing venue.

I want to wish all, I do mean all of you, a very Joyous Christmas, and prosperity in the New Year 2010. Enjoy the Holiday Season with Reason.
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Old 12-20-2009, 12:24 PM   #140
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Precisely. Which, in turn, suggests that a generational difference doesn't really explain what gives.

Lynn
Agreed. Back in the 19th century this was much more a monocultural country, but that was not even absolutely true then. Over the next century diversity kept increasing and the "melting pot" didn't melt us as much. Some people keep trying to enforce a monoculture of their own definition, vaguely approximate to what they think the nation's founders believed in. They don't seem to know very well what those men believed in, but that's another issue.

The battle over how to run an organization like the WBCCI does reflect the "culture wars". That war, fought over and over again through history, is always lost by the purveyors of the status quo because the process of change is inevitable and the old guys always lose the biological solution.

But people live longer and old guys of any type hold on longer than ever and become more and more irrelevant. Unfortunately, they cause certain institutions to die with them. As the old guard becomes more irrelevant, others start new institutions and replace them. The Forum is a good example of that. Some people want to start another Airstream club which may be modeled somewhat on what they think the WBCCI should be like, but may actually be much like the WBCCI—perhaps berets, but no flags; perhaps bolos instead of ties; perhaps 10 page bylaws instead of gazillion page bylaws.

Most leaders of traditional organizations try to perpetuate their views and while there may be direct election of the leadership, it's not hard to make sure the nomination procedure is loaded in favor of such perpetuation. Another factor in perpetuation is that few people really want to or can take the time to run an organization. How many people can hold a fulltime job and do the leadership work of a national organization?

I expect when the dust settles, we'll see several alternatives, somewhat reflective of the increasing diversity of our culture. Some will thrive, some will not. Right now the catalyst for change is a dues increase. I'd like to see the war be over too and for everyone to pick their type of group and get on with camping, but whether or not a dues increase is approved, the process will continue until everyone is tired of arguing and different groups emerge.

Gene
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