Newer Models Ford F250 Gas Vs. F250 Diesel

[DBinSD]

Additionally, if you are using the EB that much to slow the vehicle. Then your trailer brakes are not adjusted properly or you have insufficient gain.

[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by Airstreamer67

Quote: "It's a fool who habitually uses an exhaust brake when towing these TTs without the TT brakes being applied simultaneously."

I assume this seemingly outlandish statement is from that of the owner of a Hensley/ProPride hitch.

As good as this hitch design is for avoiding sway when the hitch is in tension, such as when a tow vehicle is pulling a trailer on a highway, this hitch design is equally as bad for avoiding sway when the hitch is in compression, such as when a tow vehicle is being restrained by an exhaust brake or service brakes but the trailer is not equally restrained.

To restate: With the Hensley/ProPride design, if the tow vehicle is being slowed down via an exhaust brake or service brakes without applying the trailer brakes too, the hitch is then susceptible to being compressed, or pushed, by the trailer. If that trailer pushes hard enough, the head of this hitch design is free to swing to one side or the other. This can cause the trailer to push the tow vehicle's rear end to one side or the other, thus risking a loss of control. In fact, the police use this type of push-the-rear-end-to-the-side maneuver with great success when a police car hits the car of a fleeing felon on the rear in a sideways fashion, thus causing the driver to lose control and crash.

To make things worse, this phenomenon is exaggerated if there is a wind pushing the trailer to a side or if the road begins curving in a different direction when going downhill without any applied brakes.

Under such down-hill conditions, the Hensley Bump can be hazardous if the proper precautions are not taken.

So, for the owners of a Hensley/ProPride hitch, Slowmover's assertion is not so outlandish after all. These folks should indeed be extremely cautious when using an exhaust brake or any tow vehicle brake without a parallel use of the trailer brakes. To do otherwise invites problems.

To your point about the trailer "pushing" the TV, I can see this "perhaps", depending on your trailer and your TV. I posted earlier about
an experience we had last year while driving to Alumalina.

I came around the corner going 63-65 or so on the highway, and the traffic in both lanes was dead stopped--no brake lights....my 2017 F250 diesel electronics worked as they should; I applied the brakes hard....no skidding- just a fast, efficient slow/stop, and I was able to avoid rear ending the last cars safely with a foot or so to spare. I did not know it at the time, but only my right trailer brakes were connected on my "new" 28'AS.....the left ones had been severed somehow when I picked it up, and I never knew till later in the year. Point is for us, if I had a smaller TV I am convinced I would have rear-ended with the weight of the 28' AS trailer pushing me into the last car's...the weight and capability of the F250 D saved us in this situation. I use the BO hitch, and have used with my last 3 AS's with no issues....

To Slowmovers comment...he cracks me up sometimes with his comments as above..."miss the "downshift"? Many of us are driving newer TV's, with "automatic" trany's...also, the newer electronics are typically "tuned" to know when you have a load in "tow/haul" mode so the engine braking, transmission downshifting are an "aid" in controlling your combined rig. I use a Blue Ox hitch and have for years...works fine for my use. No argument about being "aware" of the situation, and using your brakes "as needed", and always knowing you have an AS behind you. But, it's not a semi-trailer nor a Peterbuilt pulling it....just saying.

[rgg123]

Originally Posted by giantfuton

Glad to hear you are getting something out of this thread. We've really enjoyed our 25' Int'l Serenity this summer and the F250 with 6.2 has been really great pulling it. If you want to see some videos and impressions of the 6.2 gas motor with 4.30 gear ratio then you can visit my youtube channel. I've posted several different videos to give prospective gas buyers a decent idea of what it is like towing with a gas F250.



https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCs6...YhmzWWaXFwjvEg



If you have any questions then feel free to ask. This is a great place to learn from others experience (aaannnnndddd mistakes )



GF

Did your F250 come with the 4:30 gear or did you change it out? Standard is 3:73 (as mine has). I have contemplated changing mine to 4:30 as I can use the extra torque - I carry a 30ft Classic. On flat roads and even modest hills I do fine but the 6 and 7 percent grades give me challenges.

[pteck]

Originally Posted by rgg123

Did your F250 come with the 4:30 gear or did you change it out? Standard is 3:73 (as mine has). I have contemplated changing mine to 4:30 as I can use the extra torque - I carry a 30ft Classic. On flat roads and even modest hills I do fine but the 6 and 7 percent grades give me challenges.

Are you at speed for the 6 and 7 percent grades, i.e. freeway? Or are you talking about accelerating from a stop on grade?

At speed, it's all about horsepower. You should be able to downshift to get more gearing and pulling power up the hill. The 4.3 gears may or may not help you in the way you imagine on the freeway, if you're not already taking advantage of lower gears in the transmission. Peak HP for the 6.2L gas is @ 5,500 rpm. If you're not letting her rev, than you're not getting all she's got.

It's less stress on the motor to let her rev than to lug. Lower engine speeds require higher cylinder pressures to make the same power. The cooling circuits aren't pumping as fast either to keep things running cool.

[21Airstream]

Originally Posted by gypsydad

... I came around the corner going 63-65 or so on the highway, and the traffic in both lanes was dead stopped--no brake lights....my 2017 F250 diesel electronics worked as they should; I applied the brakes hard....no skidding- just a fast, efficient slow/stop, and I was able to avoid rear ending the last cars safely with a foot or so to spare. I did not know it at the time, but only my right trailer brakes were connected on my "new" 28'AS.....the left ones had been severed somehow when I picked it up, and I never knew till later in the year. Point is for us, if I had a smaller TV I am convinced I would have rear-ended with the weight of the 28' AS trailer pushing me into the last car's...the weight and capability of the F250 D saved us in this situation. I use the BO hitch, and have used with my last 3 AS's with no issues...:

This is exactly why I tow our 27FB with a Ram 3500; not arguing brands of TV’s as they all have their strengths and weaknesses but it’s sure nice having the capacity to carry all the heavy stuff in the truck and have the large brakes and exhaust brake to (hopefully) be able to avoid a crash (and only half your trailer brakes working!).

[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by 21Airstream

This is exactly why I tow our 27FB with a Ram 3500; not arguing brands of TV’s as they all have their strengths and weaknesses but it’s sure nice having the capacity to carry all the heavy stuff in the truck and have the large brakes and exhaust brake to (hopefully) be able to avoid a crash (and only half your trailer brakes working!).

Yes it is!

[sbowman]

Originally Posted by pteck

Are you at speed for the 6 and 7 percent grades, i.e. freeway? Or are you talking about accelerating from a stop on grade?

At speed, it's all about horsepower. You should be able to downshift to get more gearing and pulling power up the hill. The 4.3 gears may or may not help you in the way you imagine on the freeway, if you're not already taking advantage of lower gears in the transmission. Peak HP for the 6.2L gas is @ 5,500 rpm. If you're not letting her rev, than you're not getting all she's got.

It's less stress on the motor to let her rev than to lug. Lower engine speeds require higher cylinder pressures to make the same power. The cooling circuits aren't pumping as fast either to keep things running cool.

True w/gas, not true w/Diesel. Torque comes in much lower in the RPM's/HP. Greater gas consumption, less fuel consumption on Diesel. Greater engine ware in gas, less engine ware in Diesel. Fact.


Safe travels and best regards

[Countryboy59]

Originally Posted by sbowman

True w/gas, not true w/Diesel. Torque comes in much lower in the RPM's/HP. Greater gas consumption, less fuel consumption on Diesel. Greater engine ware in gas, less engine ware in Diesel. Fact.


Safe travels and best regards

Both will last 300,000 miles. Based on actual ones I have owned:

2000 Silverado 5.3 Gas 320,000 miles when sold
1996 Suburban 6.5 Diesel 280,000 still in family runs great
1988 Silverado 6.2 Diesel Ran to 300,000 miles, rusted to nothing
1986 Silverado 6.2 Diesel, 285,000 miles, sold engine and trans out of it
2013 Superduty 6.2 Gas, too soon to tell, only 120,000 miles on it
*coming soon 2013 Superduty 6.7 Diesel, 27,000 miles, my mechanic says “you don’t need that”, never tell me I don’t need something 😎, we’ll see how that one does

[sbowman]

Originally Posted by Countryboy59

Both will last 300,000 miles. Based on actual ones I have owned:

2000 Silverado 5.3 Gas 320,000 miles when sold
1996 Suburban 6.5 Diesel 280,000 still in family runs great
1988 Silverado 6.2 Diesel Ran to 300,000 miles, rusted to nothing
1986 Silverado 6.2 Diesel, 285,000 miles, sold engine and trans out of it
2013 Superduty 6.2 Gas, too soon to tell, only 120,000 miles on it
*coming soon 2013 Superduty 6.7 Diesel, 27,000 miles, my mechanic says “you don’t need that”, never tell me I don’t need something 😎, we’ll see how that one does

Cummins 500K plus..................

[AZ camper]

The diesel is much more advantageous when towing in the mountains at high altitude out west. I live in Colorado and would not buy the gasser. However, if I lived in most of the rest of the US I would most likely buy the gasser. Much cheaper and easier to maintain.

[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by AZ camper

The diesel is much more advantageous when towing in the mountains at high altitude out west. I live in Colorado and would not buy the gasser. However, if I lived in most of the rest of the US I would most likely buy the gasser. Much cheaper and easier to maintain.

Agree- we just came from Montana/Wyoming on our way back to TX, thru Flaming Gorge on highway 191; wow! Hairpin turns and 9% grades, plus extremely rough pavement! No way would I want to be pulling my 28' with my old F150 on that road; the F250 6.7D handled it just fine, but it was a "thrilling" ride down just the same...engine brake on auto, TowHaul engaged, and brakes applied with the auto system worked excellent...with my assistance as needed. I still miss driving my F150 EB around, but for towing the 28' in the mountains and in general, the F250 D is great!

[graysailor]

I have noticed in the last couple of seasons that gas for the most part is much cheaper then diesel. If I were in the market I would have to take a serious look at the gasser. For some reason here in Arizona the gas and diesel prices are very close to each other.

Also noticed the last couple of years the RV park prices are creeping up as is fuel. Not quite so cheap anymore wandering around.

[Daquenzer]

It will be interesting to see how the new 10speed transmission will work with the gas F250. You would think it will get better mpg’. Have to say I love my F150 getting 20 mpg’s for daily driver. So an F250 now gets about 9 to 10 mpg’s towing. I get better than that with my F150 towing my 28’ AS; generally 10 to 12. And I drive about 65. At 55 my F150 goes to over 12 mpg while towing.

As to RV parks going up I have decided that staying at National Parks or municipal parks is the way to go if possible. We stayed in a really nice municipal campground for $24 a night with full hook ups. Way nicer than the for profit parks we have been at. Also have any of you used boondockerswelcome.com? Private individuals allowing you to stay a few nights on their property.

[n2916s]

Basically, it takes “x” btu’s to pull my trailer one mile. Won’t really matter if I tow it with gas, diesel, ethanol or electricity, it is the same amount of energy. Now, a ten speed transmission will save energy accelerating as it will keep the rpms in the sweet spot but, at steady cruise, all those gears will not help at all.

[out of sight]

When considering a gas vs diesel tow vehicle keep in mind that diesel engines and their transmissions are much heavier and a tow vehicle will have a different front/rear weight distribution depending on the engine type. In my case a diesel has worked to my advantage as the hitch load is offset by the engine weight making for a very stable rig.

[JonDNC]

FWIW my F350 Diesel get 14 towing in the Smokies. At speeds between 55-65 depending. On the flats in NC got 13 at 70. Towing an International Serenity 27FBQ. Two adults, 1 large dog and all our stuff including ebikes etc.

[Daquenzer]

Originally Posted by n2916s

Basically, it takes “x” btu’s to pull my trailer one mile. Won’t really matter if I tow it with gas, diesel, ethanol or electricity, it is the same amount of energy. Now, a ten speed transmission will save energy accelerating as it will keep the rpms in the sweet spot but, at steady cruise, all those gears will not help at all.

The difference is that while towing the transmission will zero in on the best gear and engine speed for the situation. More options. So instead of going from 6th to 5th it will go from 10th to 7th. And the amount of shifting will be more effiencent. This is why the 10 gear transmission is desireabile. Also when I am in my F150 with 10 speeds the RPMs really go down on the flats. That 10th speed enables a lower RPM.

http://gmauthority.com/blog/2018/08/...-transmission/

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...-drive-review/

[Bill M.]

Actually the diesel engine is more efficient than the gas engine, so it does make a difference. The diesel makes more power per BTU of fuel input. The higher compression ratio of the diesel allows it to be more efficient at converting fuel to power.

I got 9-11 mpg towing my trailer with my wimpy F150 with 4 speed auto.
I get 14-16 towing the same trailer with my diesel with 4 speed auto. And I go faster while doing it.

[jcl]

Originally Posted by n2916s

Basically, it takes “x” btu’s to pull my trailer one mile. Won’t really matter if I tow it with gas, diesel, ethanol or electricity, it is the same amount of energy. Now, a ten speed transmission will save energy accelerating as it will keep the rpms in the sweet spot but, at steady cruise, all those gears will not help at all.

The 10 speed matters because it can spend more time with the torque converter locked up. That, and other improvements in the transmission, are where the efficiency improvements come from.