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Old 08-28-2008, 07:39 PM   #169
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...I just got off the phone with Bob, and you got it wrong. Right now Bob is suspended. That status will change in the coming weeks, and it won't be reinstatement... I'm NOT speaking for Bob, I'm assuming just as soon as he reaches VA and gets that dish up, you'll hear it first hand...
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This is absolutely, fundamentally, completely, postively, thoroughly, and utterly unfair! I wanna know NOW!!!

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Old 08-28-2008, 07:58 PM   #170
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Cool!

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Whoa, whoa, whoa there killer...


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WOW dude, nice attack, rant! Now see about helping improve the club and not KILL it! Your energy just might help us some day but I think I'll see you on the outside looking in, that will help your Unit next year.
Hey I might even be on the outside as well but I was around long enough to serve my Unit and other parts of the club.

Another Kill if you are counting.

I'm waiting for the next attack (rant)
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Old 08-28-2008, 08:06 PM   #171
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We must all keep speaking out and exercising our voices vigorously for inconvienient truths must be acknowledged if we are to have wise government. There can be no suppression or fear. Desperate times call for desperate measures and if we are to be denied recognition then we ought to vote no confidence. Ed, you have chosen to determine who the killers are and I for one, have an honest difference of opinion on that as may many others. Opportunities to deliver this "vote" are what we are now exploring in various ways.

You may be enumerating "kills" but Bob can tell you that enumerating "strikes" is what all landed us in this place now. The difference being you are free to make your observations. Let's send a clear message that freedom of speech should be extended to all.
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Old 08-28-2008, 08:07 PM   #172
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Old 08-28-2008, 08:34 PM   #173
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One of the smartest things I've ever heard said on this forum went something like this:
How long would Airstream last if Toyota, Honda or Nissan started to make RV's?
Boy, that sentence should be a huge wakeup call to the whole RV industry - get smart BEFORE they come after you.


Now I'm going to try to say something just as smart - and it's going to be a reach.
  • An Alternate Rally across the street from the International? I've never met Jerry Larson and I can't know what's in his mind, but if he doesn't react about like Airstream would be to find the local Honda generator factory (12 miles from Airstream) was opening an RV division - then he just wouldn't understand the expression, "Denial is NOT a river in Egypt".
  • Related topic - didn't I read a thread about a week ago saying that AIRSTREAM isn't coming to the International? AIRSTREAM isn't wasting corporate advertising and marketing dollars on the WBCCI? Airstream's bean counters have decided that WBCCI is either already dead or totally irrelavent.
Are we beating a dead horse?

Respectfully, Paula
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Old 08-28-2008, 08:41 PM   #174
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Airstream's infamous question# 24

Airstream has been politely telling our leadership for years that they're doing a poor job of selling this club. Sadly that's only half the truth. The other half is that Airstream has repeatedly told our leadership that Airstream is selling today's trailers to a "different" kind of buyer". For those that need the interpretation that means that today's Airstream buyers aren't interested in the WBCCI.




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Old 08-28-2008, 08:50 PM   #175
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Dear President Larson,

In an effort to help bring forth some administrative updates to the "Disciplinary
Procedures" Article V of the Bylaws, I propose the following for your consideration:

Unless the Executive Committee (EC) makes a finding of probable cause, a complaint alleging a violation of the Rules of Ethics shall be confidential except upon the request of the accused.

An evaluation of a possible violation of the Rules of Ethics by the Ethics & Grievance Committee (E&G) prior to the filing of a complaint shall be confidential except upon the request of the subject of the evaluation.

If the evaluation is confidential, any information supplied to or received from the E&G shall not be disclosed to any third party by a subject of the evaluation, a person contacted for the purpose of obtaining information or by the E&G.

An investigation conducted prior to a probable cause finding shall be confidential except upon the request of the accused. If the investigation is confidential, the allegations in the complaint and any information supplied to or received from the E&G shall not be disclosed during the investigation to any third party by anyone.

Not later than 3 business days after the termination of the investigation, the E&G shall inform the complainant and the accused of its findings and provide them a summary of its reasons for making that finding. The E&G shall publish its finding upon the accused's request with a summary of its reasons for making such finding.

If the EC makes a finding of no probable cause, the complaint and the record of the E&G's investigation shall remain confidential, except upon the request of the accused and except that some or all of the record may be used in subsequent proceedings. No one shall disclose to any third party any information learned from the investigation, including knowledge of the existence of a complaint, which the disclosing party would not otherwise have known. If such a disclosure is made, the EC may, after consultation with the accused if the accused is not the source of the disclosure, publish the EC's finding and a summary of the EC's reasons therefor.

The EC shall make public a finding of probable cause not later than 5 business days after such finding. At such time the entire record of the investigation shall become public, except that the E&G may postpone examination or release of such records for a period not to exceed 14 days for the purpose of reaching a stipulation agreement. Any such stipulation agreement or settlement shall be approved by a majority of those members present and voting.

Respectfully,
Don Collimore, #5399

Cc: Airforums.com
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Old 08-28-2008, 08:58 PM   #176
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[quote=Ed Emerick;609421]So let me get this straight!

A guy gets suspended

Ed, these are not just any guys, these are members that have been elected by other members, these guys are volunteers that have added depth and stregnth to our club.
They have a vison of where they believe our club should go. Try to keep and open mind, perhaps you may share some of thier ideas. I know that I do.
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Old 08-28-2008, 11:04 PM   #177
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Has anyone thought of the possibility that this is a trap? I remember once being told by a captain teaching a course on leadership that the definition of leadership is the ability to "manipulate" people into doing what they don't want to do. A good leader is good at manipulation. I don't agree with that kind of leadership, but that is what is taught both in the military and in business.

Look at their resumes. Larson - MBA, BBA, retired Navy officer. Collier - teacher, sales manager, has "enjoyed a variety of leadership roles in the past 40 years." Beu - BA Psychology, Masters Systems Management, Air Command and Staff College. Hechenswiler - police officer for 34 years. All of these men have had courses in leadership, management and organization.

It's been said in this thread that these are not bad men, just clueless. Really? I don't want to make that assumption. They are educated, experienced, and obviously intelligent. I don't think they are stupid, clueless, naive or any such thing.

Jim Franklin (also former military officer) has perhaps accidently let the cat out of the bag with his comments about terminating the memberships of those deemed to be "unhappy." Do you not think that wasn't discussed in Executive Council before and/or after he made those statements?

Let's say that there is a certain group of leaders in our Club that are frustrated because they've been stymied by a loud vocal group of malcontents. If only those malcontents could somehow be convinced to leave the organization then the balance of voting power might just shift in the favor of those wanting to change the name of the Club, or allow SOB of RV into the club, or whatever. How would you get those trouble makers to leave?

One way would be to wait and see who emerges as their leaders. Leo? Bob? Then give those leaders just enough rope to hang themselves... be patient - they'll do something that will provide the evidence to hang them, and then they'll get kicked out of the Club. By then, those malcontent leaders will have their like-minded followers who will be angry, and outraged by the suspension or expulsion to the point that they will themselves boycott, refuse to pay their dues, organize an alternate rally, and yes, eventually leave the Club all together.

Not all the malcontents need to leave to be successful, just enough to tip the balance of voting power. Then the WBCCI leadership can do what they want with little or no resistance. Sure, there will be a few tough years, because of the loss of memberships, but if it's done now while there is still a pretty good treasury the transition can be made.

Does that sound like a plan? Are you falling for it?
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Old 08-28-2008, 11:40 PM   #178
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Quote:
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Has anyone thought of the possibility that this is a trap?
Yup
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forrest View Post
Are you falling for it?
Nope

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Old 08-29-2008, 12:13 AM   #179
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Interesting thought for certain. I don't think anyone thinks the IBT are doddering fools. Clueless, perhaps in the respect that they do not have the same understanding of priorities different from theirs, and developed an appreciation of what is important to many younger or newer members. It's very generational, but the gap does not need to exist. The current problem is the casm has grown to such an extent being left not updated for far too long. The idea that they need not conduct themselves as the members' agents and report and accept accountability to the general membership but rather are in a heightened position of authority and power and can mandate their ideas of what is best for the club without communicating to ascertain needs and modifying is a huge breach and problematic to member retention and satisfaction. Many of their former unit peers are no longer available as a touchstone and they are sequoistered to themselves in the International Club and that is what they know and what fuels their decisions and priorities. They are separate and their experience is no longer equal with the experience that the rest of the WBCCI membership experiences at unit level.

If it was a ploy it will surely backfire because if it is not Leo or Bob or their supporters than there will just be others in time in their place. Let's face it, they broke the mold for the current IBT some time back. Missing an international isn't leaving the club and an alternative rally would probably be lots more fun. But it would have a financial impact on the International Club and not affect the general membership or individual units experience.
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Old 08-29-2008, 01:10 AM   #180
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Thumbs down Why did the chicken cross the road?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wheel interested View Post

<SNIP>

The current problem is the casm has grown to such an extent being left not updated for far too long. The idea that they need not conduct themselves as the members' agents and report and accept accountability to the general membership but rather are in a heightened position of authority and power and can mandate their ideas of what is best for the club without communicating to ascertain needs and modifying is a huge breach and problematic to member retention and satisfaction.

<SNIP>
Kind of like grandfather said:

"In my day we didn't ask why the chicken crossed the road. Somebody told us the chicken crossed the road, and that was good enough."

Jim
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Old 08-29-2008, 05:35 AM   #181
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Forrest View Post
Has anyone thought of the possibility that this is a trap? I remember once being told by a captain teaching a course on leadership that the definition of leadership is the ability to "manipulate" people into doing what they don't want to do. A good leader is good at manipulation. I don't agree with that kind of leadership, but that is what is taught both in the military and in business.

Look at their resumes. Larson - MBA, BBA, retired Navy officer. Collier - teacher, sales manager, has "enjoyed a variety of leadership roles in the past 40 years." Beu - BA Psychology, Masters Systems Management, Air Command and Staff College. Hechenswiler - police officer for 34 years. All of these men have had courses in leadership, management and organization.
...
Jim Franklin (also former military officer) ...
Hmm.. I too am a former military officer, and struggle with this one. On the one hand I knew several that were just outstanding: one retired navy o-6 in particular with whom I was privileged to have several frank discussions on life, the world, and our role in it.

Among the good, always, always the officer labored intensely for the people in his/her charge. It was accepted as axiom that "if I take care of my people, they will take care of me." Among the very good, I was struck by the extent to which this went. Manipulation? maybe, but at some personal expense, and always for the good of the country, never the good of just one person.

About the other-than-good, we shall not speak.
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Old 08-29-2008, 06:55 AM   #182
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opps he did it again, Admiral Jerry

So you think the International President isn't playing games with us? Look what just turned up all of a sudden... Ah, and just after you all went way out of your way to thank him so sweetly for participating. __________________________________________________ ___


From: Jerry Larson <jlarson144@
To: Tom Collier <collier145@
Ralph Forrester <zoral279@
Norm Beu <beu@
Jerry Larson <jlarson144@
Jerry Collins <jc6960mc@
Carolyn Florence <wbcci3500c@
Barry Heckenswiler <heck257@
Jodi Morris WBCCI <JMorris@
Dot Stengel WBCCI <DStengel@
Cindy Reed WBCCI <CReed@
Bev Suttles WBCCI <bsuttles@
Franklin D. Sanders <franklinsanders@
Don McKelvay <silverbulletspider@
Julian Clements <dandylynne@
Bill Johnjulio <FlintlocksbyJJ@
Bob Moyers <boblee5244@
Bill McManemin <weemack@
Betty Sullivan <basullivan@
Douglas Wylie <dew50@
R.B. Bernd <rnzbernd@
Janie Lichtfuss <janiekipp@
Don Clark <k9ebon@
Theda McGrath <TEMcGrath@
Joe Bublis <JCBUBL@
Janet Kendig <jkendighatlady@
Daryl Ewles <obdaryl@
Bonnie Nester <BNESTER1@
Bob Bennett <caravan1@
Raynold Lemaire <RaynoldLemaire@
Linda Amme <prof899@
Loretta Moss <lmoss324@
Jim Elmlinger <jbeengr@
Ray Landman <rrlawq@
Teressa G Taylor <ttay@
Jack Glouner <glouner@
Janie Haddaway <jhaddaway@
Bill Schrader <bschrad500@
Jean Helker <hrhelker@
Charilie Burke <cbburke@
Mary Anderson <don101mary@
Max Carmichael <mc6077@
Charles Duran <cduran136@
Ed Elmer <texasfudd@
Jim Franklin <jfranklin007@
Vern Goodwin, Jr <vhgjr@
Norm Hewer <nmh133@
Andy Kaiser <akaiser3@
Walt Knuesel <wjulius@
Bob Laliberte <blalib@
Ewart Phillips <ewart@
Don Shafer <shf7d@
John Shull <jlshull2@
Shirley Stubbs <ewstubbs@
WAG Wagnon <wagw9wag@

Subject: INTERNATION PRESIDENT'S COMMENTS ON WBCCI & GRIEVANCES
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 18:05:11

Greetings,

The attached Microsoft word file is for your information and for you to pass to your VPs/Staffs and members as you desire. I am also posting it on www.wbcci.org under Forums and the 2020 Committee where the current subject is being discussed. Once posted on the Forum, I do not intend to be responding to any further Forum Discussion on this subject. I will consider still answering e-mails on the subject that are sent to me with no other addressees or copies to..

Regards,

Jerry

Jerome (Jerry) Larson
International President
WBCCI, the Airstream RV Association
803 E. Pike Street
P.O. Box 612
Jackson Center, OH 45334
Cell: (555) 555-5555
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