Lug wrench - sizes?

[Jammer]

I see from doing a search that most Airstream lug nuts take a 13/16" wrench. Two questions:

1) Is this true for late model classics?

2) Will a regular tire cross work or is a special thin wall socket required?

[ROBERTSUNRUS]

Originally Posted by Jammer

I see from doing a search that most Airstream lug nuts take a 13/16" wrench. Two questions:

1) Is this true for late model classics?

2) Will a regular tire cross work or is a special thin wall socket required?

Hi, a 13/16" socket fits my tow vehicle, but I have to have a 3/4" socket for my Safari. I carry a cross bar, but I use deep, thin wall, impact sockets for both vehicles especially on the Airstream with the center caps; Not much room for thick sockets. The cross bar would be better if it was made with deeper and thinner ends for the lug nuts with the stainless steel shells. In a pinch, a cross bar is better than nothing, or to help someone else with their flat tire.

[2airishuman]

as bob suggests, 3/4 inch for the trayla...

a regular socket will work, so will a regular tire cross wrench.

i carry/use an e x t e n d able gorilla wrench (shown on the left below), with sockets for the trailer AND truck,

the extension wrench length comes in handy since the truck is torqued to ~170 ft/lbs.

zoom as needed

the issue (on the stream) is that they need to be torqued to a given spec'

depending on wheel style (and retorqued multiple times)

on the 2005 classic they are 95 ft/lbs but the newer classic wheel may be a different torque spec.

and the wheel is set IN from the tire sidewall (zero offset)

such that a LONG socket or 2-3 inch extension is needed to clear the tire and HUB cover...

here's a pic with a 2in extension with a 3 inch socket, which is PLENTY of room (even on the steel spare) ...



of course that should be accounted for in the torque setting.

a 3 inch socket will JUST clear the tire and HUB center cap, without any extension.

as seen in this pic (open in a 2nd window and ZOOM) ...



a/s no longer uses the alcoa wheels (shown above)

but the offset and hub center cover are the same clearance issues...

cheers
2air'

[Jammer]

Thank you both for the informative replies.

I have a torque wrench in my shop for this sort of thing but plan on carrying a tire cross while on the road. Otherwise, I would have to bring a torque wrench, breaker bar, sockets, and 3 foot pipe.

Originally Posted by 2airishuman

of course that should be accounted for in the torque setting.

Not sure where you're going with that. If the extension extends axially, parallel to the centerline of the stud, there would be no torque adjustment because the lever arm measurement is made radially, that is, by measuring the length of the line segment perpendicular to the axis (the fastener centerline) extending from the axis to the point of force application (ur fist). A multiplier effect only occurs when there is a radial extension between the centerline of the fastener and the torque wrench. Occasionally mechanics use such extensions with much larger size sockets (usually 2" and up)

[Gene]

I use a torque wrench with a deep socket that just clears the body. During the early part of the 2008 Safari model run, the wheels were changed and the torque was changed from 120 lbs. to 110. You can find the exact date and VIN of the change on the Airstream website, but it takes a lot of looking to find it. I found it about 6 months ago, so I can't remember now where it was. The owner's manual is incorrect; it says 120.

Gene

[2airishuman]

understood that with no lengthening of the wrench the rotational forces are the same, but hand placement still matters.

and find it very difficult to use a typical torque wrench with a socket extension much over 3-4 inches total...

and control the application of rotational force without careful hand placement while 'setting' the torque.

so the 'accounted for in setting the torque' relates to this issue, not DIALING in the wrench value.

Originally Posted by Jammer

...I have a torque wrench in my shop for this sort of thing but plan on carrying a tire cross while on the road. Otherwise, I would have to bring a torque wrench, breaker bar, sockets, and 3 foot pipe...

imo/e u will NEED all of the above mentioned.

i too started by carrying a cross wrench.

in 5 years of changing flats while on the road it was never used, so i stopped carrying it finally.

a/s wants the torque set at zero, 10, 25 and 50 miles after changing a flat...

(see the small red warning sticker in the pix above) or here in post #21...

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f465...uts-24644.html

((if u wanna see pics of what can happen, the link is post #1 above no longer works...

go to july 21/22 2006 here... Tour of America » 2006» July ))

the wheel studs are prone to stretching or breaking with just a tad too much torque.

even using a torque wrench and following proper technique (i sometimes change wheels daily on other vehicles)

i managed to stretch 4/6 studs in the pic above just by using the steel spare wheel ONE time...

because it (the holes) didn't mate correctly with the lugs used with the alloy alcoas (i have since ditched the steel rim)

after 3-4 years of travel and repeated wheel removals for rotation, hub service, brake inspection/service...

~80 % of the studs showed signs of stretching, and i am VERY anal about who and what touches my nuts...

so i just replaced ALL of the studs and lugs eventually, and will do this periodically now.
______________

the point being, a good torque wrench should be part of the on board tools while 'streaming.

also IF u decide on a pp for the hitch, that's another location where torquing bits will happen, while on the road.

cheers
2air'

[Gene]

Originally Posted by 2airishuman

i am VERY anal about who and what touches my nuts...

cheers
2air'

Not a pretty picture!

I have a 4 way (my words for crosswrench) for the truck, so I have both. It helps on the trailer for spinning the lug nuts on or off until tightening is necessary.

Since the recent nuts have cheapo chrome covers on them that get loose, I imagine they will come off eventually. I have been meaning to replace them with real chrome lug nuts for about a year and plan to get to it "soon".

Gene

[pmclemore]

When I switched to a Hensley, as side benefit of discovering the pleasures of a cordless drill for tightening the jacks, I found that the drill is unmatched - even by a speed wrench (which others call a 4-way or cross-wrench) - in loosening and tighening lug nuts (once they have been loosened or before they have been tightened, of course.

There. I could use that sentence to qualify for writing by-laws.

Pat

[87MH]

Originally Posted by 2airishuman

...
the point being, a good torque wrench should be part of the on board tools while 'streaming...

Yeah, what 2air said - torque wrench - don't leave home without it....

Last Thanksgiving - Houston - St. Louis - New Orleans - Houston...

Changed two 2 year old trailer tires and one Excursion tire with 35,000 miles on it - 2 of the 3 blew out on Interstate Highways...

If you USE your trailer, and, if you run ST tires, you WILL need to torque the lug nuts on the road.

[GCinSC]

2air, I'm with CrawfordGene on that one, Haven't met you yet, someday we might get to cross trails and share a campfire, but I'll let you take care of your lugnuts. TOOOO many possible ways to run with this one.

Q. 2air, do you use a thread gage or is it the feel on the threads that you use to judge stretched studs? I have see FSM notes on TTY bolts necking down, stretched.

What gets me is the IMHO techniques used in the automotive service industry. Torque sticks, torque wrenches, or a double burp, just yep that's tight. I often see the vehicle rocking back and forth absorbing the energy and not putting that energy to work on the threads tightening the fasteners correctly.

Before my first run, I'll go over all of them. And check the PSI in the spare.

[2airishuman]

hi gc'

Originally Posted by GCinSC

...Q. 2air, do you use a thread gage...?

i'd love to post i carry a thread gauge for this...

but it don't.

my lay' approach has been base on feel first, then visual inspection.

if for example REMOVING a lug is difficult after the initial loosening...

i clean the stud AND lug and try threading it again...

still tight/sticky ? i then try a FRESH new lug...

still tight/sticky ? i pull the stud and inspect it.

in practice once it's off, i just replace it with a new stud.

i've decided that doing this every few years or based on tactile feedback is cheap.

and after finding the correct studs, it's easy to just carry a few (the trailer has 36 studs )

it's no fun towing with 2 or 3 (out of six) reliably tight nuts... on a given wheel.

the contrasting experience is that i've got old cars with the original studs and lug nuts still in use and they seem fine...

gotta be a 'stream thang and backing up/turning stresses these studs in a different manner than car/truck studs, i think.

cheers
2air'

[slowmover]

I bought a TQ wrench dedicated to the TT wheels. Seemed easy enough to keep it in the same compartment with other tire items (chocks, pads, etc) in it's own case, and with "helpers".

Every morning (before departing).

Thanks for the info/thoughts on studs & nuts in this thread.

[GCinSC]

2air,

Sure sounds like a good preventitive Rx to prevent un-necessary road side repairs and extra long talks with the insurance man.

I'll be pulling wheels soon and give all of the systems, brakes, studs, bearings and lines the evil eye. No idea how many miles on the AS but I don't think it is very high , I DO carry a tread depth gage, just might compare the tire wear vs. unused spare.

Gary

[2airishuman]

hi gary

yep, got the tread depth gauge and use it regularly...

for my rig (lots of rolling miles), regular rotation of the tires has been very useful in distributing the wear.

while there are lot of negative threads on gyms (real or imagined) my experience with them has been satisfactory...

u can read about it here, i'm at ~240,000 miles on the current 6 pack.

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f438...ons-27999.html

your 30/slide is the heaviest thing on 2 axles that a/s produced.

so stress and wear on the running gear is expected.

the disc brakes are a great enhancement and it's easy to check for pad wear as briefly covered in the link above.

at 5 years and 70,000+ miles of towing the only maintenance as been a fluid change and pad replacement.

which is covered in detail starting with post #58 here...

((the early part of that thread is interesting/useful for other reasons RELATED to lug nuts))

and there's a pic of me going fast in a station wagon...

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f439...tml#post767891

wearing parts out is WAY more fun than just watching them rust away...

cheers
2air'

[searcher]

I use Permatex "anti-seize" on all my lugs with aluminum wheels. It prevents seizing and galling on dissimilar metals. My 2000/30 excella calls for 80 ft lbs.

[Gene]

Digression: I agree a tread depth gauge is a necessity. It helps identify uneven tire wear quickly (if you use it) and tells you which tires to rotate where. I use mine on all my vehicles fairly frequently. Although car and truck manufacturers tell you to rotate in a standard pattern, I find that doesn't always make sense and sometimes just switching 2 tires instead of 4 or 5 is all that's needed. Back to lug wrenches.

Gene

[pmclemore]

Speaking of the original question - when I bought my first AS it came with a lug wrench that the PO had bought. So I never thought about it again.

That is, until I tried to use it on the side of the road; the "sockets" were too fat to fit around the lug nut and between the center chrome hub cover. I always carry a pretty full wrench and socket set, so I had a good plan B, but that could have been a real problem. So yes - you must be careful about which speed wrench (lug wrench, cross wrench or even socket). Test them before you need them.

Pat