What Truck to Purchase?

[Countryboy59]

Originally Posted by Isuzusweet

Towing power, true; only to be replace by a hundred other issues, like bad EGR, sensors that crap out, poor techs that haven't been trained on your diesel; mid year changes abound, expensive parts and labour.....the list goes on.

Cheers
Sidekick Tony

Those problems could occur on any modern vehicle, not just diesels. Of course, a truck that lasts 400,000 miles or more is likely to have problems you won’t see in trucks with a shorter life span.

[Isuzusweet]

Originally Posted by Countryboy59

Those problems could occur on any modern vehicle, not just diesels. Of course, a truck that lasts 400,000 miles or more is likely to have problems you won’t see in trucks with a shorter life span.

Yes, gas engines went through a period of changes, just like diesels are doing now, to reach emission targets, but a lot of these growing pains were in the 70's and 80's; since then the gas engine has been pretty rock solid.

Diesels today are still being tweaked all the time for performance, mpg and emission gains by manufacturers, and not all mods and software changes work.

A modern day diesel buyer must understand that they are very much guinea pigs, and accept that their version of diesel today could be a bad version tomorrow.

Cummins is not immune to this either.

Cheers
Sidekick Tony

BTW I love my old vintage direct injection Isuzu 6B1A; no DEF, no emissions, no computer, no EGR crap; just good old Rudolph Diesel.

[Specsalot]

When you have the largest manufactures of fuel injection equipment decide to publish a common position paper about the same time they started significantly ramping up fuel injection pressures its time to have some concerns. See pg 2 of the attached pdf under lubricity. Note that some of the worst diesel fuel in the US has HFRR wear scar test results in the 700's.

Many of the newer engines utilize Bosch CP4.X style high-pressure fuel pumps which are sensitive to fuel contamination. I'm not saying don't buy a diesel - but please do your homework and seriously consider running a lubricity additive. Most of the newer engines feature a lot of backend treatment systems for emissions. You need to observe emission system operations for abnormalities.

I'm lucky my (BIN3 emissions) Jeep (Mercedes CRD diesel) doesn't have a lot of backend treatment. It also has a Bosch CP3.x pump which has much better tribiology because it distributes pumping load more pistons / litre of displacement than CP4.x varients. CP4 pumps have aluminum bodies with steel components and some very critical internal coatings in order reduce wear. Coating failures grenade the pump and your entire fuel system. Expensive to repair - Just ask any VW owner who lost a CP4.1 pump due to diesel fuel contaminated with gasoline.

I think the newer Power Strokes use CP4.x; My buddy has one of the big Cummings - it uses the CP3.x. I don't know what the duramax runs.

[Specsalot]

Newer Duramax use the Bosch CP4 pumps. Here is a brief write up on the potential issue with CP4 failures.

[johnparris]

Originally Posted by Specsalot

Newer Duramax use the Bosch CP4 pumps. Here is a brief write up on the potential issue with CP4 failures.

“For the first time in the Duramax engine’s history, GM parted ways with Bosch for its fuel system and ECM needs. On the L5P, a Denso HP4 injection pump replaces the Bosch CP4.2 found on the LML. “

https://www.drivingline.com/articles...-lesson-6-l5p/

[J. Morgan]

Originally Posted by Isuzusweet

Yes, gas engines went through a period of changes, just like diesels are doing now, to reach emission targets, but a lot of these growing pains were in the 70's and 80's; since then the gas engine has been pretty rock solid.



Diesels today are still being tweaked all the time for performance, mpg and emission gains by manufacturers, and not all mods and software changes work.



A modern day diesel buyer must understand that they are very much guinea pigs, and accept that their version of diesel today could be a bad version tomorrow.



Cummins is not immune to this either.



Cheers

Sidekick Tony



BTW I love my old vintage direct injection Isuzu 6B1A; no DEF, no emissions, no computer, no EGR crap; just good old Rudolph Diesel.

Point blank, emission controls since the 90s ended have kinda ruined diesels.

That's just a hard truth.

[Specsalot]

Originally Posted by johnparris

“For the first time in the Duramax engine’s history, GM parted ways with Bosch for its fuel system and ECM needs. On the L5P, a Denso HP4 injection pump replaces the Bosch CP4.2 found on the LML. “

https://www.drivingline.com/articles...-lesson-6-l5p/

Good write up John. Glad to hear that GM is moving away from Bosch. For a number of years I owned a VW diesel with a CP 4.1. I received a "failed" pump from a friend before VW stopped letting failed pumps go. Turned out it was an early miss-diagnosed failure. The DNC coatings and the overall follower design are prone to significant malfunction as the coatings fail. VW has also parted ways with Bosch on some of its euro offerings. Bosch started doing better with the CP 4.1's when they shifted production (with design changes) to eastern europe.

As your article points out the Denso unit distributes the pumping work over 3 high-pressure pistons v.s. two in the Bosch CP4's. That is key because it reduces stresses on the piston cam followers. In the CP4's there are parts that turn ~ 4X engine RPM which is a bad idea if lubrication is just diesel fuel.

[J. Morgan]

Originally Posted by Specsalot

Good write up John. Glad to hear that GM is moving away from Bosch. For a number of years I owned a VW diesel with a CP 4.1. I received a "failed" pump from a friend before VW stopped letting failed pumps go. Turned out it was an early miss-diagnosed failure. The DNC coatings and the overall follower design are prone to significant malfunction as the coatings fail. VW has also parted ways with Bosch on some of its euro offerings. Bosch started doing better with the CP 4.1's when they shifted production (with design changes) to eastern europe.



As your article points out the Denso unit distributes the pumping work over 3 high-pressure pistons v.s. two in the Bosch CP4's. That is key because it reduces stresses on the piston cam followers. In the CP4's there are parts that turn ~ 4X engine RPM which is a bad idea if lubrication is just diesel fuel.

The rumor is,,,,,,,, Bosch has always produced crap parts, but still, Bosch the Amazon series featuring Titus Welliver rocks. (I say that as a person who isn't a fan of Bezos)

[rodsterinfl]

What truck to purchase? I believe the answer comes to answering a few other questions- What payload will YOU need- For me, a half ton makes sense as it meets my payload need, the truck I have is more than powerful enough to tow the rated weight and it is my daily driver; however, there are situations where a half ton will not cut it as some have shared. The key is payload which includes tongue weight and people and gear in the bed. Fuel is included in Ford figures- checked more than once. I do not know about other brands. Other questions are, what size AS are you planning on? What is the rated tongue weight of that model? What is the payload rating of the trucks you are looking at? Remember towing capacity (pull) is NOT payload capacity (haul/carry).

[Specsalot]

Originally Posted by J. Morgan

The rumor is,,,,,,,, Bosch has always produced crap parts, but still, Bosch the Amazon series featuring Titus Welliver rocks. (I say that as a person who isn't a fan of Bezos)

Bosch started as an electrical engineering firm that became involved with engine control systems. Their big jump came when VW installed their electronic fuel injection in the mid-1960s.

This is not a board for heavy technical discussions. My bachelors of engineering training (40 years ago), and my hands on tear down and inspection of a CP4 pumps tell me there is a lot not to like in the design. I was front and center concerned with this question when I owned a VW (Bin5) TDI diesel that used the Bosch CP4.1 pump. I followed technical posts of folks developing mitigation strategies for the weaknesses in VW's TDI fuel system implementation (including the CP4.1 pumps). Everyone needs to do their homework because CP4 failures are an expensive affair.

There is already (at least one) high profile FL trial lawyer who is garnering Bosch CP4.X failures to likely bring a class action law suite. The Diesel Fuel Injection Manufacturer's common position statement is going to make it very difficult for a class action lawsuit to move forward. Suffice it to say, anyone buying a diesel needs to understand that the elevated injection pressures involved with these common rail systems are pushing technology to the breaking point.

[Happy4Travel]

Originally Posted by Ray Eklund

If Safety is not a concern... a SUV or a 1/2 ton two wheel pickup, no back seats, no topper, Goodrich/Goodyear D Rated Passenger tires, if available.

If you want to Rule the Highways, Mountains and be 100% content... a Diesel 3/4 ton Ford, crew cab (with back seats) or for less than $200 a 1 ton. I sold our 25 foot International, kept the F350 Diesel. Avoid the sun roof, you may never use it. After break in, which may take 3,000 to 4,000 miles, your mpg will jump. I thought my odometer was wrong, but 15 to 25 mpg can be done when you use wind, downhill and uphill strategy towing, or not.

Get the Ford rubber mats and bed rubber mat. Haggle it for a free add on. You will not regret it compared to the others available on the market. You want the Michelin tires, E Rated and great if on the truck in the lot. Otherwise, find one that has the Michelin tires.

If you want to be comfortable, less gas mileage than the Diesel, go with the 3/4 ton Ford F250/350 (probably get the F350 for the same price).

I drove Tundras 5.7L crew max, 4x4. Great truck but borderline for 25 foot Airstream or longer. (Again, many will say get an expensive hitch, but your leaf springs on the Tundra will be FLAT. I am experienced in towing with Tundra 4.7L and 5.7L. Never owned a Ford. Never owned a diesel.

Now with 31,000 miles on the 2016 F350 Diesel... love it. When you want to kick up the speed to pass on the two lane roads in Nevada, you will understand. A F250 gasser will do what you need, AND less service costs.

Others will say overkill. When you are hunting... Bear... it is You or the Bear. Your trailer is the Bear.

If you are towing goats or chickens behind the vehicle... anything works.

Call me Crazy Ray all the way to the... Bank. Resale prices for clean Diesel F250/F350's make up for the initial cost.

Glad I caught your post! I have my second Tundra, the 2019 4X$ crewmax Limited with the tow package including trailer brake system. We are planning to be part-time RVrs in 2-3 years, so looking at an AS not longer than 23 feet for sure. I'm pretty careful with tow capacities and realize I may have to beef up the truck brakes, but good to know the Tundra can handle just fine up to 23. I drive a 2500 Dodge 4x4 gasser for work and it is surprisingly great. If I didn't love Tundra's so much I would get a 3500 diesel Dodge.

[Specsalot]

I've had decent luck towing my 25' FC with my 2007 Jeep 4WD CRD diesel engined SUV with the following caveats:

1. 1. The rear suspension wasn't doing a very good job handling the tongue weight. I solved this by installing helper airbags and an onboard remote controlled air compressor.
2. 2. The brakes are somewhat marginal. The 4WD running gear and my stock 17" rims severely limit aftermarket brake selection. Cannot retrofit any of the Brembo "big break" kits. So I limited to running slightly higher performance rotors, calipers, and pads.
3. 3. Towing requires a WD hitch. I also run a P3 high-end brake controller.

The TV I have cannot handle anything larger than a 25' AS. I haven't done a lot of higher speed higher elevation mountain towing. The engine has no issue pulling, but the brakes limit me to towing at no more than 60 MPH. Towing isn't a problem, but stopping can be a real challenge.

[suncoasteng]

Here is interesting video of new Ram pulling Flying Cloud, note the real world MPG

https://youtu.be/E3de_70FD4k

[PCJ]

We are pulling a 30' Classic with a Chev. Duramax and love it have not had a shortage of power which will be a problem if you go to small. Besides a whole lot less fuel.

[Steamguy]

Thank you for posting this.

This looks a lot like my next truck, after 15 years of the current one. The idea of a truck that 'kneels' for my disabled wife to get in, is a great idea.

I have been pulling (within under 20%) of my tow ratings for 45 years. This gives a comfortable margin for braking and tongue weight.

I've always believed that you don't really need a diesel, especially with all that new stuff of DEF, which expires whilst the truck is just sitting over the winter.

Do I try to drag race others up hills? Not a chance - I respect my TV, and its capabilities. I use the old Master Mechanics' teachings from so long ago: "If your fuel usage goes to more than 80% of unloaded, then you're overstressing the system."

Example: 13 MPG solo - 9.5 MPG towing is about right.

So i drive to that point, and it's served me well.

Yes, I'm conservative, but it has served us well.

Not meaning to throw a wrench into this discussion; I've just seen enough of the 'ya gots to have a diesel' stuff....

SG

[out of sight]

If you need a truck that "kneels" you can get a RAM 1500 with 4 point pneumatic levelling system. The RAM is the only one to my knowledge that has it. When you get in you can drop the truck down several inches. Having done a lot of driving old people around I can say that a low vehicle comes in handy for getting in for the 80 to 100 year old range. Conversely, if the vehicle is too low then they can get in but they can't get out. While I love my 2500 4 wd truck, it is really high and I figure that one day I'll have to downsize to the 1500.

[mkcurtiss]

Originally Posted by moosetags

I won't tell what I think that you need. Instead, I will tell you what has worked for us. We are highly experienced Airstreamers. We have been Airstreaming for thirteen years and have spent almost 2,000 nights in our Airstreams and have towed them over 180,000 miles.

We have an Airstream 25FB. It weighs in at 7,400# ready to camp. We tow with a 2018 Chevrolet Silverado 2500 Duramax Diesel. This is our second Durmax. Prior to 2011, we towed with Chevrolet Suburban 2500's with gasoline engines. They did okay, but we like the diesels much better.

We are currently in Strasburg, Colorado, on our way to Alaska.

Brian

The advantage to the Suburban, was that Momma could drive it, and be styling, and then you hook up that Airstream, and its all good.....Momma prolly does not want to drive the truck? What say you?

...Seems like a Suburban or 2500 Tahoe is probably the best all around tow vehicle on the planet, as long as it is not overloaded.....

[mkcurtiss]

Originally Posted by Happy4Travel

Glad I caught your post! I have my second Tundra, the 2019 4X$ crewmax Limited with the tow package including trailer brake system. We are planning to be part-time RVrs in 2-3 years, so looking at an AS not longer than 23 feet for sure. I'm pretty careful with tow capacities and realize I may have to beef up the truck brakes, but good to know the Tundra can handle just fine up to 23. I drive a 2500 Dodge 4x4 gasser for work and it is surprisingly great. If I didn't love Tundra's so much I would get a 3500 diesel Dodge.

The Dodge has a Cummins diesel, which is a good motor, but the rest of that truck is garbage.....Continually falls apart......been there and done that.....no more.....THe new Ford or Chevy 3/4 ton trucks are both good machines.....especially with gas engines......too many problems with new diesels.....
Even the guys that drive big rigs will tell you, the new diesel engines are junk....Constantly break down, and the repair bills are huge.....The future of heavy duty trucks is gas...watch and see....

[out of sight]

I see gasoline being phased out by electricity one day, but big rigs will be running on diesel long after we're gone.

[drbrick]

I just love these discussions about what is the "RIGHT" truck (TV) one should buy. So I thought I would add my 2 cents into this discussion.

There are two things to consider:

1)Aesthetics - which is very personal. What I mean is, do you like the vehicle. Colour, interior material. Manufacturer; i.e., Ford, GMC, Ram - this is all suggestive because what I like is about me. What you like and dislike is about you. Once you make a "preliminary" decision here about "aesthetics" then you need to see if it fits the "second consideration". And this is really where the rubber meets the road.

2) Is the TV right for your choosen AS. To make this determination you need to look closely at the specification require for the marriage of the TV and AS. This means do the analysis. I have provided a link below to the type of analysis I went through in choosing our TV (there are others out there) ... perhaps it will help in your journey in choosing the right TV.

how-to-determine-if-your-tow-vehicle-is-right-for-your-trailer

Opinions are many and very - however none replace personal research