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Old 01-27-2019, 11:29 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by TinPeddler View Post
All Tundras with the 5.7 are rated to tow over 9000lbs with the tow package. You have plenty of truck to tow your 25'. Now go and have fun!
And don't forget that Tundra's are also very light in their "Payload" rating/capability....tow rating is one thing; but actual payload capacity is very important to understand and stay within. Go to a lot with Tundras; check out the doorjam mfg. specs on the sticker, and see how many you can find over 1400lb payload....I couldn't find any when I looked on Toyota lot a 18 months ago even with dealers help...the manager got involved and tried to tell me his Tundra's payloads were 1800lbs and up...according to specs; when challenged to show me, he and his sales guys were surprised...the old saying..."you don't know "Jack" comes to mind when I talk to a sales guy about "specs" and "reality" when discussing payload for trucks...
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Old 01-27-2019, 02:15 PM   #42
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I think the truck will be fine.

Look for a Dead-weight-trailer rating.

Ford does this. and it is attached to the vehicle VIN when you use a VIN decoder.

What exactly is a 'dead weight trailer rating'?🧐

Maybe CCC?

Bob
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Old 01-27-2019, 02:16 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS View Post
What exactly is a 'dead weight trailer rating'?🧐

Bob
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Ford VIN decoders have "dead weight " trailer weight listings.

In other words, you weigh the same dead or alive, but with weight distribution, it would be a different rating.
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Old 01-27-2019, 03:32 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by gypsydad View Post
And don't forget that Tundra's are also very light in their "Payload" rating/capability....tow rating is one thing; but actual payload capacity is very important to understand and stay within. Go to a lot with Tundras; check out the doorjam mfg. specs on the sticker, and see how many you can find over 1400lb payload....I couldn't find any when I looked on Toyota lot a 18 months ago even with dealers help...the manager got involved and tried to tell me his Tundra's payloads were 1800lbs and up...according to specs; when challenged to show me, he and his sales guys were surprised...the old saying..."you don't know "Jack" comes to mind when I talk to a sales guy about "specs" and "reality" when discussing payload for trucks...
I love the tundra, but own an F250, BECAUSE, the F250 has a 3,111 pound payload.

I went on toyota's site and their payloads are no more than 1,600 pounds or so. I could have missed something, but that's the max payload I could find for the '19's
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Old 01-27-2019, 04:40 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JJTX View Post
Ford VIN decoders have "dead weight " trailer weight listings.

In other words, you weigh the same dead or alive, but with weight distribution, it would be a different rating.
In other words WD eliminates weight?
Or is it just rated differently?
GCWR doesn't apply.

Bob
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Old 01-27-2019, 05:15 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS View Post
In other words WD eliminates weight?
Or is it just rated differently?
GCWR doesn't apply.

Bob
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It changes the combined gross rating.
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Old 01-27-2019, 10:34 PM   #47
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It changes the combined gross rating.
OK... so it does change weight?
Just how do you go about proving that statement?🤔

WD moves the weight, I believe gross is gross.

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Old 01-28-2019, 09:23 PM   #48
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Towing capacity??

Absolutely true. Weight is weight, but WD can shift some weight off the TV rear axle and onto the front axle as well as the trailer axle(s). This has a chance to both avoid overloading the rear axle and getting the front axle properly loaded. On my rig it’s real obvious when there is not enough weight on the front axle. DW will get motion sick if the front of the truck is porpoising the least bit. That’s a hint I need to make adjustments right away.

Note that this simply re-positions the total load a bit. Only a pass across a CAT scale will tell you if you exceeded axle loading somewhere.

Best hint: Leave the anvil and most of the cast iron cookware at home. Just earwormed my self with the Animaniacs “Let the anvils ring” song. Sigh.
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Old 01-30-2019, 10:06 AM   #49
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We are driving our 5th Tundra and have pulled a 25’ FCFB over 100,000 miles in Alaska, Canada, Newfoundland, Nova Scotia, and many National and State Parks in the Rockies and other US mountains....often at 65-70 mph fully loaded....frequently easing past “larger” tow rigs.
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Old 01-30-2019, 10:44 AM   #50
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Check This Video Out

This has been interesting to read through. I came across this UTube video which is worth the watch.



Let me add this: Should you have an accident while towing the investigator will first look at the GVWR of the tw then the GVWR of the AS - if the GVWR of the AS is greater than the GVWR of the TW - well your insurance provider will simply walk away and say - "it your problem". BUT we all make choices.
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Old 01-30-2019, 10:46 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by rmkrum View Post
Absolutely true. Weight is weight, but WD can shift some weight off the TV rear axle and onto the front axle as well as the trailer axle(s).
It's my thinking that if you're using WD to keep within axle limits you need higher limits.

The original statement was that WD changes the 'rating', is that possible?

snip "Ford VIN decoders have "dead weight " trailer weight listings. In other words, you weigh the same dead or alive, but with weight distribution, it would be a different rating."

I don't understand how WD could change anything but weight location.

Rich, This is a real "ear worm"


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Old 01-30-2019, 11:14 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS View Post
It's my thinking that if you're using WD to keep within axle limits you need higher limits.

The original statement was that WD changes the 'rating', is that possible?

snip "Ford VIN decoders have "dead weight " trailer weight listings. In other words, you weigh the same dead or alive, but with weight distribution, it would be a different rating."

I don't understand how WD could change anything but weight location.

Bob
Vehicle ratings as published by the manufacturer change with hitch style and hitch rating. Ford lists a tow rating for the step bumper with a ball installed, a tow rating for the receiver hitch, a higher rating using the receiver and WD equipment, a higher rating using a 5th wheel hitch, and a higher rating again using a gooseneck hitch. All described in the Ford towing guide.
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Old 01-30-2019, 12:19 PM   #53
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Ok that's cleared up...all the concern related to receiver ratings not TV, axle or payload.
We don't tow without WD so it never occurred to us that it was being considered...sorry for the mistake.

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Old 01-30-2019, 12:34 PM   #54
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Yes. If you have the 5.7 engine.
I have a 2015 Tundra, (similar). Rated to tow 10,000#
I have a 26U witch is about the same weight as your 25'.
I tow it around with no problems. I have the Tow/Haul mode, which changes the shift points in the transmission, but I've forgotten to engage it after buying gas and can't tell any difference.
The Airstream tows like a dream and the Tundra is a stout truck.
Just make sure you get a good brake controller and set up the hitch and brakes properly. It takes some fiddling.

I've done the N. Georgia mountains and it towed fine. On long downhill sections, I'd manually shift into fourth to hold me back a bit without riding the brakes. There's whole new mindset when towing, take it slow.
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Old 01-30-2019, 01:40 PM   #55
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We towed a 2008 Safari 25FB, the same as your FC, with a 2007 Tundra for 63,000 miles without a problem. We towed over high passes in Colorado many times without a problem unless using a lot of gas is a problem—we could have gone 65, but 50-55 was better for gas mileage. The Tundra is very reliable. Ours now has 126,000 miles and runs like new, though eventually some repairs will be needed.

Payload is a limiting factor for any 1/2 ton truck. In the owner's manual are payload (cargo) ratings for every version of the Tundra. The worst are the Crew Cab, better for the Double Cab which we have.

To calculate what you will bring as payload—take two thirds of tongue weight (Airstream's ratings vary, sometimes the same year, so good luck tracking that down, and maybe add 100 lbs. to their rating for batteries and anything else in the front that Airstream doesn't want you to think about), add in your weight and any passengers including dogs, what you carry in the truck and see what it adds up to. Amputations may be necessary, but most people resist that. Leaving one's spouse at home also can cause problems. I am sure we were at or a bit above cargo weight all the time and suffered no damage. Toyota seems to give you more than they state in weight ratings. Looking at the suspension and 3rd member, the Tundra seems overbuilt for a 1/2 ton. Some manufacturers have a reputation for bogus weight ratings, but Toyota seems to go low. The purpose of the WD hitch is to transfer weight from the trailer axles to the truck axles as well as reduce sway and also to get both vehicles reasonably level. While there are formulae only engineers can understand to calculate the exact weight distribution, 1/3—2/3 is a pretty good estimate. Without WD, the truck front end will allow your headlights to light up tree tops and the sky. To check for leveling, measure height to the ground at the top of each wheel well front and rear before and after the hitch is set up—the front end will drop afterward.

The weak spot on a Tundra is the brakes. The newer Tundras may be better, but I think they don't perform as well as some more recent trucks (the Tundra hasn't has a major redesign since 2007). The brakes are big and tough, but it is a big and heavy truck and when towing, there's a lot of weight to stop. I always downshift going down steep roads—not because the brakes are bad or good, but because it is a good safety practice. You will have much better control that way and you will stop a lot faster. Professional drivers are taught to go downhill in the same gear they went up—with an automatic that may be hard to figure, but I usually go down anywhere from 2nd to 4th depending on steepness. The range of those gears is very wide, so you can go pretty fast in 2nd on steep sections, certainly 3rd well over 60 mph. At around 110-115,000 miles I rebuilt most of the braking system (along with some work done by a real mechanic because I was tired of it all). One of the front calipers was sticking and rebuilt calipers are cheap compared to the labor and rebuilding part costs for doing the calipers yourself. Replaced front and rear rotors and master cylinder as well as all pads. Probably didn't have to do that much, but parts were cheap and so was the real mechanic. Toyota uses quality parts, but I got better vented rotors on the front because heat is the problem going downhill. Towing puts a lot of strain on the brakes and since they are somewhat important, I'd rather spent some more on them.

You are many miles from worrying about the brakes now.

We had an Equalizer hitch and it worked very well. When after around 55,000 miles, some minor cracks started to appear, they replaced it without too much proof needed. Figuring out how to adjust it can be daunting and several calls to the manufacturer in Utah were helpful. As I recall, there are three major adjustments to be made and you have to try various combinations for your particular vehicle/trailer combination. The first time took a long time as I got to understand what I was doing. The dealer had installed it poorly and it towed well even then, better when I adjusted it.

You have a very good truck, will have to watch cargo or payload and setting up the hitch takes time—even if a suspension shop does it (they should know how), check it anyway. Do those measurements before any adjustments are made and then right after. Getting the trailer level is the number one thing with WD hitches, getting the truck level is good, but it is very hard to get it perfect (within an inch front to back is about as good as you can get sometimes). The third thing to watch is getting the bars level and that can be impossible with certain combinations—I could get it somewhat close, but to get the trailer and truck level was more important. It is trial and error situation.

After you figure this out, you can advise others how to do it. the learning curve is steep, but mostly everyone survives and becomes an expert (or thinks they are).
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Old 01-30-2019, 04:44 PM   #56
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Ok that's cleared up...all the concern related to receiver ratings not TV, axle or payload.
We don't tow without WD so it never occurred to us that it was being considered...sorry for the mistake.

Bob
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If you look at the different receiver ratings with and without WD, then it obviously isn't a receiver limitation, because it is the same receiver. It is a vehicle limitation of some type, most likely either the rear axle rating, or the vehicle dynamic stability with the tongue weight all positioned behind the bumper.
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Old 01-31-2019, 07:47 AM   #57
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If you look at the different receiver ratings with and without WD, then it obviously isn't a receiver limitation, because it is the same receiver. It is a vehicle limitation of some type, most likely either the rear axle rating, or the vehicle dynamic stability with the tongue weight all positioned behind the bumper.
Ok...if you say so...the receiver weight is the same with and without WD set.
Puzzling why the spec tag is on the receiver.🤔

I'll say again, IMO, if you're using WD to stay within vehicle specs, another vehicle is in order.🤓

As illustrated here...


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Old 01-31-2019, 10:05 AM   #58
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Ok...if you say so...the receiver weight is the same with and without WD set.
Puzzling why the spec tag is on the receiver.��

I'll say again, IMO, if you're using WD to stay within vehicle specs, another vehicle is in order.��

Bob
Yes, the receiver weight is the same, so that supports the idea that the receiver isn’t the limitation. It is the effect of the receiver weight that matters, not just the numerical value. It is clear that many posters don’t understand this, because they regularly equate receiver weight with the same amount of rear axle load increase. 800 lbs on the tongue does not add 800 lbs to the rear axle unless the tongue is over the axle. It is more likely to add something like 1000 lbs to the rear axle and take 200 lbs off the front axle, depending on rear overhang and wheelbase measures. Requiring WD to achieve rated TV towing capacity is not at all surprising.

The tag is on the receiver because the owner will see it every time they hook up. Same reason the seatbelt light is on the dash and not the seatbelt.
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Old 01-31-2019, 10:36 AM   #59
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Yes, the receiver weight is the same, so that supports the idea that the receiver isn’t the limitation. It is the effect of the receiver weight that matters, not just the numerical value. It is clear that many posters don’t understand this, because they regularly equate receiver weight with the same amount of rear axle load increase. 800 lbs on the tongue does not add 800 lbs to the rear axle unless the tongue is over the axle. It is more likely to add something like 1000 lbs to the rear axle and take 200 lbs off the front axle, depending on rear overhang and wheelbase measures. Requiring WD to achieve rated TV towing capacity is not at all surprising.

The tag is on the receiver because the owner will see it every time they hook up. Same reason the seatbelt light is on the dash and not the seatbelt.

"yes the receiver weight is the same"....the same as what exactly?

Ok... so now your proffering that the spec tag on the receiver is actually for the TV?
So... what then is the difference between a class 2 and a class 5 receiver?

Bob
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Old 01-31-2019, 10:51 AM   #60
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"yes the receiver weight is the same"....the same as what exactly?

Ok... so now your proffering that the spec tag on the receiver is actually for the TV?
So... what then is the difference between a class 2 and a class 5 receiver?

Bob
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Actually, the manufacturers said it. They said that to achieve the rated tow capacity on some models you had to use WD. I am just pointing out how that isn’t surprising, and suggesting two likely contributing factors, RAWR and dynamic stability.

I agreed with you that a certain weight applied to the receiver, as downforce, doesn’t change with or without WD (leaving aside the weight of the WD equipment, and the effects of longitudinal displacement of the coupling point). WD doesn’t remove that tongue weight at the receiver, it redistributes the effects of it.

I think the differences in receiver classes, although imprecise due to a lack of standards, are at least directionally clear and agreed. But the manufacturers noted above aren’t requiring a heavier hitch in at least one example, they are requiring the use of WD equipment on the same hitch.
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