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Old 01-24-2019, 07:20 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by thewarden View Post
I must disagree that payload is a meaningless number and you can't really measure it. It is actually quite an important number. It includes the tongue weight of the trailer, the gear you stow in the box and in the cab and the weight of the passengers. Not at all difficult to measure and something that needs to be done to ensure you are within the vehicles stated payload capacity.



As you stated, axle weight ratings are important as well and if you stay within them, you are generally in good shape.



The scales are your best friend in making all these determinations.


Ok, maybe not meaningless but definitely confusing. The only use I see for it is comparing TVís when evaluating for purchase.

Again I donít understand how to measure payload. I know how to use the scales to measure the axle weights and the gross weight of the TV. I know that I want to be under the axle ratings and under the GVWR. If I am under these 3 ratings could I possibly be over the payload rating? If the answer is yes then I believe the payload rating is meaningless. Ie., to me the axle ratings and the GVWR are more important than payload and are what really count.

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Old 01-24-2019, 08:13 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TouringDan View Post
Ok, maybe not meaningless but definitely confusing. The only use I see for it is comparing TVís when evaluating for purchase.

Again I donít understand how to measure payload. I know how to use the scales to measure the axle weights and the gross weight of the TV. I know that I want to be under the axle ratings and under the GVWR. If I am under these 3 ratings could I possibly be over the payload rating? If the answer is yes then I believe the payload rating is meaningless. Ie., to me the axle ratings and the GVWR are more important than payload and are what really count.

Dan
The GVWR rating is the "GROSS VEHICLE WEIGHT RATING" meaning it is the maximum the vehicle and it's cargo can weigh and still be within the manufactured specs.
Take your TV to the scales with you and any passengers you would normally carry. Weigh the vehicle. Subtract that weight from the GVWR and you have "Payload Capacity"
Some manufacturers build in a 150 pound driver and a full tank of fuel.
So you can add your 150# weight back in.
Tongue weight subtracts from the PAYLOAD CAPACITY along with anything loaded in the TV.
It's easy to determine. Load your TV and trailer. Take it to the scales. Drive the TV (both axles) on the scale, not the trailer. If that weight is more than the GVWR. You are over weight.
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Old 01-25-2019, 06:21 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TouringDan View Post
Ok, maybe not meaningless but definitely confusing. The only use I see for it is comparing TV’s when evaluating for purchase.

Again I don’t understand how to measure payload. I know how to use the scales to measure the axle weights and the gross weight of the TV. I know that I want to be under the axle ratings and under the GVWR. If I am under these 3 ratings could I possibly be over the payload rating? If the answer is yes then I believe the payload rating is meaningless. Ie., to me the axle ratings and the GVWR are more important than payload and are what really count.

Dan
When a vehicle goes out the door at the factory, what it weighs at that time with a full tank of fuel is "curb weight" (CW). Using information on the door placards we can calculate curb weight. (GVWR-payload capacity=CW)

The math to calculate payload capacity is (GVWR-CW=payload capacity). Payload capacity and cargo capacity are the same thing.

To measure actual payload (any weight added to the vehicle), one must weigh the loaded vehicle to arrive at "actual weight" (AW). The math to calculate payload is (AW-CW=actual payload)

IMO, payload capacity is important. But maybe it is not critical that 100 pounds or so over makes any difference. The reason: I do not know where or what is the weak link between the axles. I've seen frames bend, I've seen bolts shear, I've seen springs break, etc.
IMO, fudging a little is ok, but not by much.

The vehicle can be over payload capacity when both axles are at or near maximum capacity. The sum of both axles maximum weight capacity is always a higher number that GVWR. So GVWR is more important than axle rating/capacity.

Exceeding ANY manufacturer's specification is overloading.
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Old 01-25-2019, 06:42 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Shazam View Post
2011 Tundra - GVWR= 6900
2015 25FC GVWR= 7300. Dry weight is 5700.
Plan is 4-5 hour trips at essentially no elevation (middle Georgia)

We will only be adding about 600 pounds of gear max.
Can I tow with this Tundra ?
Based on you having the 5.7L engine and tow/haul mode, you will be fine, especially if youíre not loading up too much gear.

We have a 2015 Tundra Crewmax with the 5.7 L. Itís rated to pull 9800 lbs. you can probably go anywhere you want with your truck/trailer combo.

Make sure you install a trailer brake controller and get a WD hitch setup by someone who knows what theyíre doing.

And have fun!
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Old 01-25-2019, 06:50 AM   #25
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Get a build sheet from the dealership service dept.
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Old 01-25-2019, 07:47 AM   #26
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X2

The trailer is going to be very close to it's GVWR...probably 7000lb, if not more.
More important are your axle,(GAWR) and tire ratings, P Passenger, Light truck LT.

Your truck will tow the trailer... why not try it?
Go from there.🤔

FWIW...our first AS was marginally towed for four Seasons and we survived just fine. 😂

Bob
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Old 01-25-2019, 08:16 AM   #27
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The Bridgestone P225R70/18 tires
On my Tundra are rated at 2,469# @ 44PSI. The combined weight carrying capacity is 124# shy of 10,000#
Which far exceeds the combined axle ratings of the truck.
Just info.
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Old 01-25-2019, 08:39 AM   #28
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TG it is just info...which Bridgestone is it?


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Old 01-25-2019, 09:36 AM   #29
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Correction.
I stated the wrong tire size in my previous post.
Memory is not what it use to be.
The actual tire is:
Bridgestone Dueler HT
275/R70/18
Rated at 2601# @ 44 psi
Total weight carrying capacity of 4 tires is 10,404#
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Old 01-25-2019, 10:34 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TG Twinkie View Post
Correction.
I stated the wrong tire size in my previous post.
Memory is not what it use to be.
The actual tire is:
Bridgestone Dueler HT
275/R70/18
Rated at 2601# @ 44 psi
Total weight carrying capacity of 4 tires is 10,404#
TG...

Ahhh...that 'splains it🤗.
The previous was definitely odd for an 18incher.😂

Bob
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Old 01-25-2019, 11:17 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by TouringDan View Post
Ok, maybe not meaningless but definitely confusing. The only use I see for it is comparing TVís when evaluating for purchase.

Again I donít understand how to measure payload. I know how to use the scales to measure the axle weights and the gross weight of the TV. I know that I want to be under the axle ratings and under the GVWR. If I am under these 3 ratings could I possibly be over the payload rating? If the answer is yes then I believe the payload rating is meaningless. Ie., to me the axle ratings and the GVWR are more important than payload and are what really count.

Dan
Measuring payload is not complicated. Just add up all the weight that is being added to an empty truck, ie., weight of all passengers, gear stowed in the cab and in the box, and the trailers loaded tongue weight. This will require a TW scale or your local weigh scale if you do not have access to a TW scale. Weigh the trucks rear axle without the trailer and then again with the trailer loaded for a trip. The difference between the numbers is your trailers TW. It will also include the weight of your weight distribution hitch as well, as some of these can approach 100lbs or more.

Are you safe if your loaded weights are within your axle ratings. Yes, as long as they don't exceed your GVWR. It is possible to exceed GVWR even if you are within your front and rear axle ratings. If you are under on them all, then yes, you should be good to go.

The nice thing about cargo weight ratings are if you know the vehicles cargo weight rating and you know what your payload weights are, you know right off the bat if the vehicle is in the ballpark. As you said, that information is indeed handy when comparing TVís when evaluating for purchase without having to go to the scales.
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Old 01-25-2019, 12:17 PM   #32
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SNIP...."Weigh the trucks rear axle without the trailer and then again with the trailer loaded for a trip"

Without WD set...if you want accurate TW.
With WD set for towing the actual TW will be distributed to the TV frt axle and AS axles.

Bob
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Old 01-25-2019, 01:35 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS View Post
SNIP...."Weigh the trucks rear axle without the trailer and then again with the trailer loaded for a trip"



Without WD set...if you want accurate TW.

With WD set for towing the actual TW will be distributed to the TV frt axle and AS axles.



Bob



Bob

Why wouldnít you weigh it with the WD set? I can see where in weighing it with the WD not set that you might be over the rear axle rating, but with it set your rear axle weight could be under the limit.

Dan
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Old 01-25-2019, 01:54 PM   #34
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When you are hooking up, what does the tongue weight do for your springs (before EQ hitch is in place) ?
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Old 01-25-2019, 02:44 PM   #35
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You can come pretty darned close to actual spec. number ratings for your truck and AS at the scales. Weigh the trailer hitched up with truck on the front scale and AS on the back scale. then pull the AS up so the tongue is on the front scale and AS tires on the rear scale and weigh again. That will give you your tongue weight, which can be much higher then the AS spec. weight listing; my spec weight said 899# but actual weight was 1100# on the scales loaded. Best to be within mfg. specs, to be safe. You don't want any hassles from an insurance adjuster asking questions should you have an accident. Would not be good if that happened and he determines you were out of mfg. recommended specs. Others here may not care...and you likely may never get into that situation...still, it's good to understand and always be safe.
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Old 01-26-2019, 09:15 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS View Post
SNIP...."Weigh the trucks rear axle without the trailer and then again with the trailer loaded for a trip"

Without WD set...if you want accurate TW.
With WD set for towing the actual TW will be distributed to the TV frt axle and AS axles.

Bob
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The purpose of weighing with the WD is that the weight of the hitch also contributes to the overall cargo that is loaded on the truck. You are correct, if you want accurate TW, then weighing without the WD is appropriate.
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Old 01-26-2019, 12:32 PM   #37
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Bob

Why wouldnít you weigh it with the WD set? I can see where in weighing it with the WD not set that you might be over the rear axle rating, but with it set your rear axle weight could be under the limit.

Dan
Dan

Ok...it's probably just me, but if I was that close to my axle weight limits I'd be shopping for a new TV. 🥴
Wiggle room is good.👍

I look at it as TW... loaded unhitched.
Receiver weight... loaded WD set.

WMMV

Bob
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Old 01-26-2019, 12:43 PM   #38
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All Tundras with the 5.7 are rated to tow over 9000lbs with the tow package. You have plenty of truck to tow your 25'. Now go and have fun!
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Old 01-27-2019, 06:19 AM   #39
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I think the truck will be fine.

Look for a Dead-weight-trailer rating.

Ford does this. and it is attached to the vehicle VIN when you use a VIN decoder.
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Old 01-27-2019, 09:17 AM   #40
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Thanks all! Lots of great info on this thread.
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