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Old 01-04-2019, 05:36 AM   #21
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We have a 2500 Duramax with Bilsteins at the store for towing Fifth Wheels. If I told my wife we were taking it on a road trip I would be going alone.

Also take a look at the Ford Expedition. It has independent rear suspension which both rides and handles better.

The Echoboost will give you better solo mileage and be similar towing. Plenty of power. 0-60 with a 30í is 16 seconds.
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Old 01-04-2019, 06:18 AM   #22
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Here is a thought - simply add a Suspension Air Bag Kit to the F150 XLT Super Cab - 4X4
Tow package (rated 12,200 lbs) This will boost your payload to some very large number and when you are not towing - provide the capability to give the stock ride you are looking for.
If you want the luxury of an SUV - Ford New Expedition is built on the F150 base (max tow capacity 9300 Lb.) and you could possibly do the same. Best of both worlds.

But sure to check the spec on the receiver weight capacity on all considerations too.
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Old 01-04-2019, 06:23 AM   #23
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Airbags can change suspension height for sure, but will not, repeat not, increase the axle load rating at all. That is based on the strength of the axle structure and the ability of the bearings and other parts to carry a particular load.
You might be able to level an overload with air bags, but you are still operating with an overload condition. Good luck with that...
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Old 01-04-2019, 06:49 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by worthy420 View Post
Here is a thought - simply add a Suspension Air Bag Kit to the F150 XLT Super Cab - 4X4

Tow package (rated 12,200 lbs) This will boost your payload to some very large number and when you are not towing - provide the capability to give the stock ride you are looking for.

If you want the luxury of an SUV - Ford New Expedition is built on the F150 base (max tow capacity 9300 Lb.) and you could possibly do the same. Best of both worlds.



But sure to check the spec on the receiver weight capacity on all considerations too.


It doesnít work that way, payload is way difference than towing capacity. Do yourself a favor and check the little yellow sticker on your F150s door frame, there is a solid chance you are over the vehicles payload limit (amount vehicle can carry, including trailer tongue weight) which has nothing to do with towing capacity.
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Old 01-04-2019, 09:30 AM   #25
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It doesn’t work that way, payload is way difference than towing capacity. Do yourself a favor and check the little yellow sticker on your F150s door frame, there is a solid chance you are over the vehicles payload limit (amount vehicle can carry, including trailer tongue weight) which has nothing to do with towing capacity.
There's a difference in perspective of regulation vs engineering. You're absolutely right when talking about regulation.

But it does work that way when talking technically. To a degree.

Airbags can and will provide more load support, control, and performance.

Oftentimes, we argue over payload. Sure power, brakes, and cooling, but most modern cars have more enough here. Suspension, more specifically spring rate, is oftentimes what dictates payload capacity. That's why you generally see from van, suv, to truck, all generally the same general range of payload. Because that's what necessary to ensure a good ride. Unless the rig is primarily built for payload - which is why you end up with the truckish rides of the 3/4 and 1-tons.

It's also why there's things going on like this. It's generally less about structure (to a degree).
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Old 01-04-2019, 02:08 PM   #26
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All these TV are great and very expensive to purchase and operate.

I suggest you consider the ride, comfort, reliability and convenience of the F150 - add air cushion rear suspension for cheap.

According to the 2015-18 F-150ís officially stated towing and payload numbers, the thing will be able to tow up to 12,200 pounds and haul up to 3300 pounds in the bed (all aluminum body.) equipped with the V6 - 3.5 twin turbo engine. Approx. 350 HP

The XLT package gives you nearly all the options of the King Ranch or Platinum for thousands less.
I know of no 1/2 ton, F150 included, that has anywhere near 3300lbs of cargo capacity. Perhaps half that on a stripped F150. I recently considered a new F150 with the tow package until I looked at the cargo sticker for the truck. After adding the TW of the trailer, 27 FB, there was barely enough for the LW, myself and a tank of fuel. Putting the daughter and the mini labradoodle in the back seat put it over the limit. Still shopping but the 3500 Duramax is looking pretty good.
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Old 01-04-2019, 03:10 PM   #27
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Agree that airbags can help with leveling and ride when you are near the limits of payload capacity, but I think itís wrong to suggest/imply airbags will increase your payload... they donít increase the axles weight limits, just mask the fact that your springs are loaded/overloaded.
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Old 01-04-2019, 04:24 PM   #28
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He was not saying that airbags will increase axle load rating.

If you compare vehicles with airbags and without airbags, the first one may get a higher payload rating. An example may be BMW X5 where the air suspension version gets ca. 300 lbs payload rating. Axles are the same on both versions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rmkrum View Post
Airbags can change suspension height for sure, but will not, repeat not, increase the axle load rating at all. That is based on the strength of the axle structure and the ability of the bearings and other parts to carry a particular load.
You might be able to level an overload with air bags, but you are still operating with an overload condition. Good luck with that...
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Old 01-04-2019, 07:55 PM   #29
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Just a quick note as an F150 Platinum driver pulling a similar AS. Though the payload is not too much higher than the XL Denali, I can put more of my stuff into the AS since I have lots of excess "capacity" in both towing and trailer weight. So while the XL can hold as much it cannot pull as much so the total you can load up (especially if you have to bring your own water) is substantially less. Just something to consider.

Incidentally, back in 2003 (?) I bought a 3/4 ton suburban when they sold them. With an 8.1 liter V8. Rocking! Not near the HP/TQ numbers pulled up today but it was great for my boat and I could load a lot of stuff in the vehicle. Not sure why they stopped making 3/4 ton Suburbans.
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Old 01-05-2019, 03:49 AM   #30
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This fascination with the abstract payload number is a recent phenomenon. I can generally find no rationale for how the number is generated.

You will find that if you stay close to axle capacity and never exceed tire capacity you will never have a weight related issue.

90% of the fifth wheel combinations you see on the highway exceed the trucks payload, 50% of the work trucks exceed payload, most families going on vacation without a trailer exceed payload. My guess is that most Airstream combinations over the last 50 years would have exceeded payload had the number existed.
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Old 01-05-2019, 04:15 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dustent View Post
Agree that airbags can help with leveling and ride when you are near the limits of payload capacity, but I think itís wrong to suggest/imply airbags will increase your payload... they donít increase the axles weight limits, just mask the fact that your springs are loaded/overloaded.
Yeah but if the axles can handle the weight but the springs are the limiting factor this could be a solution. It depends on the actual limiting factor. Sometimes the axles can handle more than the springs.
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Old 01-05-2019, 06:02 AM   #32
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This fascination with the abstract payload number is a recent phenomenon. I can generally find no rationale for how the number is generated.

You will find that if you stay close to axle capacity and never exceed tire capacity you will never have a weight related issue.

90% of the fifth wheel combinations you see on the highway exceed the trucks payload, 50% of the work trucks exceed payload, most families going on vacation without a trailer exceed payload. My guess is that most Airstream combinations over the last 50 years would have exceeded payload had the number existed.

Can’t crack granite. The belief that engine power is relevant, or that “Payload” or “Towing Capacity” matter,

Is decent evidence that large-group ignorance (trending to stupidity) is unquenchable.


Suspension design, as mentioned, REALLY matters (but is ignored).

Same for steering design (rack & pinion or it’s equivalent is preferred).

Among pickups otherwise similar, these are the deciding factors. Not engine fuel. Not brand.


For a decent tow vehicle (not a pickup) it’s FULLY independent suspension that matters. Preferably with a low center of gravity.

The pickup owners who claim they are “correct” can’t back their argument with relevant solo use numbers, nor do any of them believe elementary physics affects their choice. (Laughable statements about “skill”). And then the default pickup/AS combo has the WD adjusted so that the TT is bouncing along on the front axle.

Solo use drives TV choice. But this is seen as “lifestyle”. Reality has no bearing, any more than do accident statistics.

The vehicle that best fits solo use AND that can tow the trailer with respect to stability-via-design is the safe choice.

200HP tows any of these trailers (sorry you all weren’t around as we crossed this continent doing it), and 300HP is very close to overkill.

Life spent commuting in an empty vehicle is no basis for comparison. Any more that the current mania for dead steering & delayed/limited steering response is best. In the vehicle choice most likely to turn over.

Let’s be first in line for the TV that itself is the CAUSE of a loss-of-control accident.

Unlike the rest of you, I see the results. More times than I can count in over a half century. 125k miles just this last calendar year. And have watched it occur plenty of times. Have even predicted it a few times.

“Not enough tow vehicle” is DESIGN not size.

.
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Old 01-05-2019, 07:27 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew T View Post
This fascination with the abstract payload number is a recent phenomenon. I can generally find no rationale for how the number is generated.

You will find that if you stay close to axle capacity and never exceed tire capacity you will never have a weight related issue.

90% of the fifth wheel combinations you see on the highway exceed the trucks payload, 50% of the work trucks exceed payload, most families going on vacation without a trailer exceed payload. My guess is that most Airstream combinations over the last 50 years would have exceeded payload had the number existed.
Back in the day I drove an F-350 flat bed with 15,000 lbs loaded on the back of it. It would appear that even axle and tire capacity are under rated as well. I'm sure most of today's combos have more than enough excess design capacity. (and yes the truck was sitting on the suspension snubbers)
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Old 01-05-2019, 09:32 AM   #34
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Agree that airbags can help with leveling and ride when you are near the limits of payload capacity, but I think it’s wrong to suggest/imply airbags will increase your payload... they don’t increase the axles weight limits, just mask the fact that your springs are loaded/overloaded.
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He was not saying that airbags will increase axle load rating.

If you compare vehicles with airbags and without airbags, the first one may get a higher payload rating. An example may be BMW X5 where the air suspension version gets ca. 300 lbs payload rating. Axles are the same on both versions.
I'll say it. They absolutely do.

Like the F250 to F350. It's well recognized that an added leaf in the pack is what differentiates it to carry more payload. Augmenting a spring pack with an airbag is the same idea. Add more spring rate, and the chassis will handle more payload. Within reason.

I'm not telling the layman to go and do this without good scrutiny and understanding. Blanket statements that airbags do not increase payload are for these individuals. Yet with a good measure of discretion, it can be done.

I won't go as far to say axle ratings are abstract. I'd take it more as a guideline. As an engineer, There's always engineering margin built in. For a critical component like an axle, I'd even say it's something like 2x+. Some manufacturers are more conservative than others which results in more long term durability. Yet recognize these ratings are also universally conservative. At their stated capacity, they have to validated for even the most extreme user, rancher, abuser, and still have great durability.

Then there's the regulation part of numbers like these. This is where I'd say these things are abstract. Less driven by engineering. More driven by the number used for certification, class designation, taxation, etc.

No, things won't magically fall apart as you reach and exceed payload. The chassis probably is not as well supported with the stock spring rates at that point though. Back to my point, it's important to upgrade or augment them, as they were primarily setup for light load comfort.
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Old 01-05-2019, 01:41 PM   #35
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Interesting that the ceo of airstream suggests the f150 is the ideal tow vehicle for their trailers on a Jay Leno interview of their land yacht trailer. I’m thinking a properly equipped f150 with max tow and heavy duty payload package have door stickers north of 1600 lbs and up into the mid 2500 lbs range.
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Old 01-05-2019, 05:45 PM   #36
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Just returned round-trip from Michigan to Florida towing a 2018 30' FC Bunk behind a Surburban with the 5.3L engine. I can tell you from a ride standpoint it was really great. The round-trip averaged 9.8 MPG, and that was with the adaptive cruise set at 72 down and back (so wasn't babying it through the hills of KY).

I've not had a 6.2 since I got the 30' but have had the 6.2 in the Escalade and pulled a 27' white box out west, and didn't even know it was back there most of the time.

My daily driver is a Yukon 5.3, and I've towed the AS FC with it many times, I use a Husky centerline hitch, and the airbags in the Yukon are awesome compared to hooking it up to a truck, levels it out perfectly and the ride is amazing. Hope that helps (btw, I work for GM, so hence the diverse set of vehicles I've used to tow).
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Old 01-06-2019, 06:33 AM   #37
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Towing 30' International with 2017 Yukon XL Denali

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Just returned round-trip from Michigan to Florida towing a 2018 30' FC Bunk behind a Surburban with the 5.3L engine. I can tell you from a ride standpoint it was really great. The round-trip averaged 9.8 MPG, and that was with the adaptive cruise set at 72 down and back (so wasn't babying it through the hills of KY).



I've not had a 6.2 since I got the 30' but have had the 6.2 in the Escalade and pulled a 27' white box out west, and didn't even know it was back there most of the time.



My daily driver is a Yukon 5.3, and I've towed the AS FC with it many times, I use a Husky centerline hitch, and the airbags in the Yukon are awesome compared to hooking it up to a truck, levels it out perfectly and the ride is amazing. Hope that helps (btw, I work for GM, so hence the diverse set of vehicles I've used to tow).

Thank you,this is exactly what I was hoping to hear. I picked up a CPO Yukon XL last Friday and am in love with it so far. It rides very nice and my family is in heaven with the added creature comforts. Iím really impressed with all the safety add-one that I never thought Iíd need but am happy to have now.

Iíll be hooking it up with the ProPride in a couple weeks to test it out. I backed it up to see how the size looked compared to the 2500HD, it looks great and the color combo really matches nicely.

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Old 01-06-2019, 07:28 AM   #38
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If you really want to get technical in how the ratings are determined by the manufacturers, just google SAE J2807. Lots of articles on the new standards and how they are determined.
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Old 01-07-2019, 03:24 PM   #39
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Looks awesome! Love the color scheme! Will be curious to see what you get for MPG's with the 6.2 on the road!
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Old 01-07-2019, 10:16 PM   #40
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I am a Ford driver. Always have been. However, you and your family be very proud.

That combo of Tow Vehicle an Airstream are smoking hot CLASS.

Enjoy.

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