GM to stop Manufacturing Gas & Diesel Vehicles by 2035

[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by Mollysdad

It's in that outlet!
Is this a trick question?

If you ever drive I-70 through western Kansas you'll see a wind farm from horizon to horizon. What I always notice is 90% of the windmills are standing still. But more are being built. You'll see flat bed semi's with one blade 90' long!
I think the growth industry is in building them, not using them.

And I never notice an electric truck hauling those blades either!

[Rocinante]

Closing this thread for cleaning, as many posts here have clearly devolved into politics instead of focusing on Airstreaming.

[Rocinante]

(Mod Hat On)
This thread is once again open for business. Please be sure to re-read (or just plain read) the Community Rules before posting to this somewhat controversial thread, as those rules will be be strictly enforced.

If your post is now missing, there's a reason for that. Do not re-post. I refer you once again to the Community Rules.

Thanks.
(Mod Hat Off...I hope)

[Bobbo]

Originally Posted by Barretta2

re-charge in about the same time it takes to fill a truck tank, maybe 2 minutes longer.

Are you seriously suggesting that a depleted BEV battery can be fully recharged in 10 minutes? REALLY?

Originally Posted by DavidsonOverlander

Sometimes it may be unavoidable to have to wait for your vehicle to charge, but chargers will be installed where there are other things to do. We think of refueling as wasted time because we stand there looking at a gas station for 5 minutes, which is probably the most boring part of our day. If it takes 15 minutes or half an hour to charge then that could be done while we're eating, or shopping or going for a walk

Unless you are trying to cover distance. If you are trying to cover distance, spending time sitting or walking is just wasted time. If you are ambling from one place to another, then………….

[jcl]

Originally Posted by Bobbo

Are you seriously suggesting that a depleted BEV battery can be fully recharged in 10 minutes? REALLY?


Unless you are trying to cover distance. If you are trying to cover distance, spending time sitting or walking is just wasted time. If you are ambling from one place to another, then………….

More like 30 minutes, or more, but it depends on the charger rating.

But that is only half the equation. If you only ever use the vehicle to do full day trips with mid day charging required, done. If however you ever drive less distance than that in a day, you can charge at your home or destination and spend no time whatsoever at a fuel station. All those days go in the plus column.

We charge on the road when doing 1000 km days. All other driving results in charging while the vehicle is parked. We get vehicle software updates during that time as well. It is a net reduction in refueling/recharging time for us, and service visits are greatly reduced.

[BayouBiker]

In actual tests with production vehicles and production and installed chargers, minimum charge time is consistently over 60 minutes. Many articles on the web for this.

[MIFC]

Originally Posted by thbaldwin3

Reality is becoming nearly unrecognizable. Electric propulsion will certainly become more widespread, desirably so. But abandonment of fossil fuel power won't happen until fusion happens, if at all. Even so, oil and gas will continue to be fundamental in our ways of life...how do you make plastic out of electricity? Or pave a highway? Make anything? Global greenery is a myth, a political whip, nearly impossible. Working with clean energy instead of against fossil alternatives seems a much more apolitical approach...and common sense.:

Along with the above mentioned statement by Elon Musk (where will all the energy to charge 100s of millions of cars come from) this is the other key question. I spent many years sourcing chemicals and had to understand which markets I was competing with for capacity and on price. I gained an understanding then that almost everything you touch or see is related to petrochemicals. Color pigments, plastics from thin wraps to bumpers, houses, cars, boats, highways and the signs along them, clothing, etc, almost everything has a petrochemical component. Given time, will there be another way? Of course, but I think it is closer to 2100 than 2035 that this conversion can happen.

[tjdonahoe]

Originally Posted by BayouBiker

Coal fired electric plants in the US are quite clean these days, surprisingly so. China? Not so much.

Not so much here either...and coal is expensive...

[BayouBiker]

As an Airstream site, it makes no sense to talk about around town short occasional trip driving though. We are pulling trailers and consuming 80-120 hp due to air and rolling resistance. The combinations are two to four times the weight of the vehicles providing charging range and the trailer provides 35-45% of stopping brakes, none of that energy goes back into the battery. The end result is a practical travel range between 100 and 200 miles between charges taking 60-70 minutes to complete. EVs are not close to being ready for the RV market and won't soon be.

Before they arrive ready for this market they will first have successfully competed in the short and medium commercial haul business. EVs are coming and as long as consumers have the ability to choose what works for them at some point in the future they will be competitive choice. However, by then the value of electricity will have increased to the point that liquid fuel and electricity have roughly the same total cost per mile. This is how supply and demand works.

[BayouBiker]

Originally Posted by tjdonahoe

Not so much here either...and coal is expensive...

Electricity from coal is among the least expensive after hydroelectric. Less than half the cost of Natural Gas Combustion. Much much, cheaper than solar and wind after accounting lifecycle costs (capital, maintenance, replacement, online factor, etc). And it is very clean with modern pollution controls. Cost to generate from hydroelectric, coal, natural gas and nuclear power is the primary reason electricity cost per horsepower is 20% of gasoline and diesel. Don't expect electricity costs to remain were they are in the future, especially if it is competing head to head with liquid fuels or liquified gas fuels in the transportation markets.

[BayouBiker]

Originally Posted by MIFC

Along with the above mentioned statement by Elon Musk (where will all the energy to charge 100s of millions of cars come from) this is the other key question. I spent many years sourcing chemicals and had to understand which markets I was competing with for capacity and on price. I gained an understanding then that almost everything you touch or see is related to petrochemicals. Color pigments, plastics from thin wraps to bumpers, houses, cars, boats, highways and the signs along them, clothing, etc, almost everything has a petrochemical component. Given time, will there be another way? Of course, but I think it is closer to 2100 than 2035 that this conversion can happen.

Very astute, it it will happen as a natural outcome of technological improvement driven by the free market forces of productivity and efficiency motivated by the desire to have the the most desirable products available. There is no need to wastefully and inefficiently force it before its time.

[SYC2Vette]

If countries figure out how to outlaw all bitcoin transactions or obsolete bitcoin by some other method, that should free up some electricity production capacity......https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-48853230

[Bobbo]

Originally Posted by jcl

More like 30 minutes, or more, but it depends on the charger rating.

But, Barretta2 said it took maybe 2 minutes longer than gassing up an IC. Which is it? It certainly doesn't take 28 minutes to gas up an IC. And, none of the reading I have done has indicated that you can fully recharge a depleted battery in 30 minutes. The estimates are always rated in hours. Usually, multiples of hours. I can fully refuel my IC (and I have a 36 gallon tank) in less than 10 minutes. Every time. Everywhere.

Originally Posted by jcl

But that is only half the equation. If you only ever use the vehicle to do full day trips with mid day charging required, done. If however you ever drive less distance than that in a day, you can charge at your home or destination and spend no time whatsoever at a fuel station. All those days go in the plus column.

Since I am using this only to tow my Airstream, that is the only half of the equation that matters to me.

[GettinAway]

Originally Posted by Mollysdad

It's in that outlet!
Is this a trick question?

If you ever drive I-70 through western Kansas you'll see a wind farm from horizon to horizon. What I always notice is 90% of the windmills are standing still. But more are being built. You'll see flat bed semi's with one blade 90' long!
I think the growth industry is in building them, not using them.

The process is underway to build the largest transmission line ever built, to try and get power from Kansas to somewhere it can be used. (Chicago and Indianapolis). I’m sure the cost is in the billions. I would also guess that the windmills will need to be replaced by the time the transmission line is complete and the power can be transmitted. I believe it’s called the “grain belt express”. It’s going through near our farm. Lots of neighbors are pretty upset about it. My guess is a lot of political insiders are going to get even richer from government funding and regulation.

[gator.bigfoot]

Originally Posted by GettinAway

The process is underway to build the largest transmission line ever built, to try and get power from Kansas to somewhere it can be used. (Chicago and Indianapolis). I’m sure the cost is in the billions. I would also guess that the windmills will need to be replaced by the time the transmission line is complete and the power can be transmitted. I believe it’s called the “grain belt express”. It’s going through near our farm. Lots of neighbors are pretty upset about it. My guess is a lot of political insiders are going to get even richer from government funding and regulation.

Wind is very inefficient way of creating power. Then you still have get it into existing neighborhoods. Cost will be in the trillions. And in the end wind will supplemented by gas powered plants. So how's any of this going to save the earth. Not to mention the trillions of batteries that will end up at the land fill.

[BayouBiker]

And let's not forget the "externalities" including 1000's of rare and endangered raptors, other birds and bats, the uglification of the horizon ( how does one cost that out? ). If the free market prevailed, these things would not get much traction. Nor would battery powered vehicles. Instead high energy density liquid fuels would continue to prevail. Internal combustion would make way to more efficient chemical to motion mechanisms. Muscle cells and the metabolic processes of hydrogen pumps etc. are an amazing invention that directly converts chemical energy into motion. Simply amazing.

[ROBERT CROSS]

I don't believe the power grid cares how the 'letric is produced.
Here we got Niagara Falls & a blo-farm both end up going to the same place....NYC.😂

Bob
🇺🇸


The answer is....Dillithium.

[jcl]

Originally Posted by BayouBiker

In actual tests with production vehicles and production and installed chargers, minimum charge time is consistently over 60 minutes. Many articles on the web for this.

If one has an EV, and regularly uses public charging stations, there isn’t a need to search the web. But thanks for the suggestion.

[n2916s]

The unfettered “free market” gave us the Monongahela River catching fire, the Los Angeles basin shrouded in a permanent grayish green haze, entire mountain tops sheared away in Appalachia with huge downstream stream damage. Thousands of Superfund sites where the “free marketeers” declared bankruptcy and walked away from the toxic mess they made. Visit Butte, Montana sometime...

Even in Florida, where I spent most of my military career, when we were flying back from the Caribbean, you could see the brown stink haze of Miami from a hundred miles out.

Clean coal plants? Imaginary. They have cleaned up the visual pollutants, but that stack gas is filthy. Not to mention that the ash residue is hazardous waste (full of heavy metals).

Is wind the answer? I am not a huge fan. Solar? It will certainly contribute considerably as we have millions of acres of sun soaked terrain.

Me, I think we need an Apollo-like project to expand nuclear.

[mojo]

With over two million semi trucks in service today and over 35 thousand trains, I wonder how they expect freight and goods to be delivered when fuel prices begin to rise or they all have start looking for charging stations. Oh and I presume batteries will be reusable and last forever by 2035.