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kscherzi · 01-29-2021, 08:40 AM

In the news, GM plans to become carbon neutral and cease production of gas and diesel vehicles by 2035, 14 years from now. According to their press release they will cease production of gas and diesel as they go, ending all by 2035. Volkswagen made a similar promise a couple years ago to do the same by 2025. Its reasonable to expect Ford and Chrysler to make similar announcements soon. Additionally, California recently banned the sale of gas and diesel vehicles by 2035, expect many other states to follow.

So what does this mean for Airstreaming, and RVing in general? As of today there are no practical electric vehicles on the horizon capable of replicating the towing experience now enjoyed by gas or diesel trucks. Some thoughts come to mind.

1. Buy the last good gas or diesel truck for sale in 2035. But will we be able to conveniently find gas or diesel for sale by, say, 2045?

2. Should I sell the Airstream to somebody else before it becomes a worthless stranded asset. If so when?

3. Will campgrounds make the sizeable investment in upgraded electrical infrastructure to provide recharging capacity for all campers to recharge their large hungry batteries all at once? What about state and federal parks? My guess is mostly probably not due to cost and lack of funding.

4. What does this mean for the RV lifestyle in general? Will tent camping return out of necessity? Will RVing become impractical, or limited to short nearby campgrounds? Will the epic cross country or Alaska trips become a thing of the past? Or will the conversion be seamless and nothing changes?

Brought this up to have a conversation about navigating the change. Please no need get into the politics of the matter.

aftermath · 01-29-2021, 08:49 AM

I also heard this announcement but....I do believe they said "passenger cars". There was a mention of continuing their truck lines. I also read in my morning paper about the Ford F150 hybrid that is now out.

Before you go and sell your Airstream I believe that there will be pickups out there plenty hefty enough to pull them. The stats on the F 150 are rather impressive. Sit back and let them work out all the kinks. I think we are looking at the future of cars and trucks.

Mollysdad · 01-29-2021, 08:53 AM

GM will bask in the afterglow of good PR and it doesn't cost them anything.
I'm announcing today that Keidi Klum is coming over for dinner in 2030. I'm so looking forward to it."

Seriously, by 2035 the technology might be ready for EV everywhere. Your Class B will drive itself to the campground while you nap in the back.

tjdonahoe · 01-29-2021, 08:55 AM

They have large cars..trucks going down the road now , all electric, some also using hydrogen, some have drivers in them, some not...no worries..horse and buggy to gas driven cars...

gypsydad · 01-29-2021, 08:57 AM

Good news is, by 2035, my AS days likely will be over! Downside is my diesel will likely not be worth much if I can't get fuel! Not sure how folks will get their AS's (or any TT) around anymore...pretty sad if you think about it.

Cyclist · 01-29-2021, 08:59 AM

And where will the electricity come from? I believe even Elon Musk recently stated that a conversion to electric vehicles would require a doubling of current generating capacity. Let that sink in.

tjdonahoe · 01-29-2021, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyclist

And where will the electricity come from? I believe even Elon Musk recently stated that a conversion to electric vehicles would require a doubling of current generating capacity. Let that sink in.

.....when we switched from the horse power to the gas power...gasoline stations were built ...now just from gas to electric...many charging stations are already in place....my next car is going to be a hybrid or electric

switz · 01-29-2021, 09:09 AM

I always ask someone with a totally electric car, where the power for their battery charger is produced. In too many cases, it is still a coal fired generating station. So the emissions are in someone else's back yard. Out of sight, out of mind.

LNBright · 01-29-2021, 09:12 AM

Solar and wind farms will continue to grow, but, truthfully, to double the electricity, nuclear should be a large component of the mix.

daleyocum · 01-29-2021, 09:19 AM

We’ve been watching “Long Way Up” on Apple TV+ recently. It’s about a team that tries to go from the tip of south america to LA by electric motorcycles and Rivian trucks. A pretty fun show. These are early prototypes of both with range in the 100-150 mile range but a constant theme is “where are we going to next to charge” and “what shall we do for the next 4-12 hours while they charge.” A sub theme is, “it’s too cold to charge quickly.”

Some of these things will get better with time but even with super chargers everywhere, there are only so many amps you can dump into the batteries per second. The days of driving 8 hours culminating in a campsite off the grid may be limited in this brave new world.

XCountry · 01-29-2021, 09:22 AM

Solar is the cheapest generation by far, and getting cheaper fast (dropped 90% in 10 years) We’re close to the point where it’s cheaper to build new solar than just pay for fuel for existing coal plants.

https://ourworldindata.org/cheap-renewables-growth

The entire US coal fleet will be long gone by 2035, and our total generation capacity will be significantly higher.

Kyoshi · 01-29-2021, 09:23 AM

Here in Ontario, GM announced recently to an investment in the CAMI plant in Ingersoll to convert to electric commercial vehicles.

dspeltz · 01-29-2021, 09:31 AM

The climate change activists are calling GMs (and may others) plans blue smoke and mirrors since they can become neutral by planting trees (really) and other compensating actions. Fossil fuels will still be used unless the market creates truly viable alternatives to gas and diesel.

BayouBiker · 01-29-2021, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by switz

I always ask someone with a totally electric car, where the power for their battery charger is produced. In too many cases, it is still a coal fired generating station. So the emissions are in someone else's back yard. Out of sight, out of mind.

Coal fired electric plants in the US are quite clean these days, surprisingly so. China? Not so much.

LNBright · 01-29-2021, 09:43 AM

Petroleum will still be needed for lubricants, metallurgical coal will still be needed for steel, etc. But, I'm fine with making a decision to head towards electrics. Making these decisions will help them be able to ramp up work on batteries, making them capable of holding more energy, being charged faster, etc. By the time we get 10, 15 years down the road, the battery technology may be a whole other formula than what's current. More batteries can help the range issue, but the rate of recharge will be 'interesting' to solve.

Maybe a highly-efficient solar panel will be developed and mounted on roof of vehicles, that can keep the batteries topped off while you're driving (in daylight) (would have to have enough battery capacity to be able to keep going from sundown to sun-up). I'm not 'holding my breath' for such, but, it's a worthy goal.

ts8501 · 01-29-2021, 09:45 AM

Trucks are not going away, no matter how they are powered in the future. There are too many uses for them in business. Don't sell the Airstream.

LNBright · 01-29-2021, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BayouBiker

Coal fired electric plants in the US are quite clean these days, surprisingly so. China? Not so much.

If we were allowed to build more of the new ones. There's one outside of St Paul Virginia, it was all the talk while it was being built, then they got it running... and a lot of folks hadn't realized it was, kept asking when it was going to start up. The stacks are that 'clean'. There's nothing seen coming out. Mostly a bit of water vapor. Really impressive. The 'problem' is, I doubt we'll see another like it built. I hope they can keep this one going, so we can continue to reclaim gob piles.

Mollysdad · 01-29-2021, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by switz

I always ask someone with a totally electric car, where the power for their battery charger is ...

It's in that outlet!

Is this a trick question?

If you ever drive I-70 through western Kansas you'll see a wind farm from horizon to horizon. What I always notice is 90% of the windmills are standing still. But more are being built. You'll see flat bed semi's with one blade 90' long!
I think the growth industry is in building them, not using them.

DavidsonOverlander · 01-29-2021, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyoshi

Here in Ontario, GM announced recently to an investment in the CAMI plant in Ingersoll to convert to electric commercial vehicles.

Also in Ontario, Ford and Fiat Chrysler have announced big investments in electric vehicles.

I know that some places still depend on coal for electricity, but in Ontario more than 90% comes from non carbon-emitting sources, and none comes from coal. We have natural gas generators only to balance the supply, and those could be phased out as energy storage becomes more advanced.

I am thoroughly looking forward to buying an electric pickup truck when they become available. If the range is less than my current diesel or charging takes longer than a fill-up that will be more than offset by other advantages. I think we take the disadvantages of our ICE vehicles for granted because we've never known anything different.

thbaldwin3 · 01-29-2021, 10:01 AM

Reality is becoming nearly unrecognizable. Electric propulsion will certainly become more widespread, desirably so. But abandonment of fossil fuel power won't happen until fusion happens, if at all. Even so, oil and gas will continue to be fundamental in our ways of life...how do you make plastic out of electricity? Or pave a highway? Make anything? Global greenery is a myth, a political whip, nearly impossible. Working with clean energy instead of against fossil alternatives seems a much more apolitical approach...and common sense.: