STEP-BY-STEP Shell-Off Floor Replacement

[MarkR]

very cool graphics
so on step 5 (since this will be the first time for me) how difficult is it to "drop" the shell back down and hold it at exactly the correct elevation to fasten/rivet it all back together . . . my '51 has vertical ribs that seem to end randomly - 1/4"-1/2" above the top of the bottom channel/track - it doesn't seem like I will "know" when the shell is in the right space. I know I've brought this up before on your thread - still trying to get someone to chime in.
And again, nice illustrations.
Mark

[A-Merry-Can]

i'm afraid i don't know. i just got my shell braced for lifting it today. i'll post pics and updates in a sec. do you have any pics of your project? misery loves company! ha!

[fastrob]

I know, I know....

I think I know.

That is the question.

Whether tis nobler to confront the common tolerance.

Plenty of loose fit here here.

[fastrob]

Very funny Fastrob.

On our Tradewind the belly liner was over the top surface skin.

I have comt to the conclusion das the trailer was an economy model.

My frame has much rust.

The skin is unblemished like a Libra Princess.

[A-Merry-Can]

Today’s work wasn’t as visually rewarding, but a lot of progress none-the-less. It took me forever to figure out how the belly pan was attached and the specific assembly order!

I’ve gotten a ton of great info from these forums. It seems like no matter what you need to do, someone’s already done it. It takes the guesswork out of this madness! The trailer shell is now fully braced, and all of the rusted out bolts that connected it to the frame have been cut and for the most part removed. I have also removed all the rivets on the curb-side to the tongue, and all the way to the door. So, all that’s left is the small area from the door to the nose, and the street-side wheel well.

The wheel wells look really rough. I’m not sure the best approach here. The street-side one has buckled from the weight of the body, and probably should be rebuilt from scratch. It seems daunting to get the rivets lined up, but actually, as long as I leave enough material there, it might actually be easier to make new wheel wells, and install them, rather than trying (hoping) to line up the original holes. The original wheel-well mounting tabs have rusted away.

The body now sits on small spacer blocks made out of plywood. I wish I had done this prior to transporting it. I could have saved some body bends on the back panel. I’ll probably have to replace that panel anyway.

I’ve also gotten the temporary supports built today to hold the shell up when I roll the frame out of it this week (again, fingers crossed!) before I get too much farther, I need to make patterns for all the curves on the corners, and add some X-braces to the floor, to keep the shell straight once it’s lifted up. Now all I’ve got to do is buy some beer and pizza, and get some unsuspecting friends lined up!

that's it for today! hopefully next post, she'll be in 2 big pieces! i'm still a little worried about the best way to support the bottom of the shell. i was planning on lifting the shell by the temporary 2X4 cross bracing i built, but it's only attached to 6 ribs. i'm not sure if that's enough support to hold it for an extended period of time, and some of my ribs don't touch the bottom channel piece either. i guess i could store it temporarily on the bottom channel pieces until the frame's redone. i'll probably replace all the channel anyway, while i'm in there. some of it had that white, powdery corrosion present.

jordan

[nitty]

Let me see if I understand this correctly. The wood flooring sits on top of the frame. Then the channel to which the sides are attached sits on top of the wood with bolts through the wood into the frame. So when the wood rots it leaves an unsupported gap between the channel and the frame??

My first reaction is that this sure seems to be a bad design. Am I missing some nuances here that would indicate this to be a good design???

[Over59]

It's no fun if you don't hide a few rivets.

Mark R what's the worry. Get the frame/ floor nice an level side ot side and front to back. You will likly need to jack up the tail some (cheap hydro jacks). Then let the shell down. Some ribs many be short due to corrsion or be bent. Get is down the best you can. I used L brackets to make up the difference. If you have the tongue jack holding the front then there will be a slight bow from there to the axel.

I'm finding the tail belly a real challenge. I suspect the front will be interesting as well.

[MarkR]

Nitty, that's why so many people doing the "full monty" treat the new plywood edges with all sorts of chemicals/paints/preservatives - to try and prevent the loss of structural integrity . . . I wonder how long/far the PO traveled around with my trailer in exactly the condition you mention - about 75% of the perimeter was about as strong as wet cardboard.

[A-Merry-Can]

Originally Posted by nitty

Let me see if I understand this correctly. The wood flooring sits on top of the frame. Then the channel to which the sides are attached sits on top of the wood with bolts through the wood into the frame. So when the wood rots it leaves an unsupported gap between the channel and the frame??

My first reaction is that this sure seems to be a bad design. Am I missing some nuances here that would indicate this to be a good design???

i've asked myself that many a time. why on EARTH would the central piece to this trailer be wood? i'm guessing cost, weight and strength are the main reasons.

my trailer, like mark's had SO much rot around the sides that i pulled most of the floor out by hand! then took a screw driver and brushed out all the left over junk between the body and the frame. if you look at one of my pics, you can see how i've supported the original mounting locations with new plywood squares, just to keep the shell from dropping any more. i have 2 nice dents in the back where i didn't have these in before i drug the silver pickle home, and now i have to repair the exterior skins. it's also a good idea to support the body to keep it from flexing, but i tell ya, after i got all the bolts cut that held the shell to the frame, there is so much flex in the chassis, sometimes i wonder if that's totally necessary. the ribs and shell are one of the 3 main structural components (the other 2 being the frame and the floor).

the debate continues on shell on or shell off... but if your floor and belly pan were in the condition mine were, shell-off is probably the way to go. if i were just going to replace a few sections of floor, i would have left the shell on.

i know when i put this back together, i'm going to do everything i can to protect the plywood from the elements! good luck!

jordan

[A-Merry-Can]

Originally Posted by Over59

It's no fun if you don't hide a few rivets.

...I'm finding the tail belly a real challenge. I suspect the front will be interesting as well.

hey '59, is your shell currently off the frame? if not, how are you planning on doing the belly pan? (just curious!) weather permitting, my shell's coming off THIS WEEK! then the fun begins...

jordan

[59toaster]

Originally Posted by nitty

Let me see if I understand this correctly. The wood flooring sits on top of the frame. Then the channel to which the sides are attached sits on top of the wood with bolts through the wood into the frame. So when the wood rots it leaves an unsupported gap between the channel and the frame??

My first reaction is that this sure seems to be a bad design. Am I missing some nuances here that would indicate this to be a good design???

Wood pound for pound is stronger the steel. Food will flex without breaking. so its actually a good choice in this application. The down fall is the leaks that went unchecked for years that cause the failure of the wood.

[59toaster]

Jordan:

Welcome to the forum. I live right down the road for you off Hw5 in Marietta!

Alan is over in Roswell.

Good work so far. I been there done that and got the merit badge.

Few warnings. I saw where Mark told you about the hidden rivets. I was able to drill them from the back side enough to weaken them and the took a stiff putty knife and sheared them off without having to remove the outer panels.

When we pulled ours apart we learned these coaches are built upside down. Well not the body but the frame and floor. See the last couple pages of the full Monty post. The belly pan was on before the body. What you are going to find that will be the easiest way to deal with this is to go around and drill the rivets on the ribs that join them to the U-channel. Drill the outer ring of rivets at the base of the shell. Drill the rivets out of the plat on the A-Frame and you will be able to lift the shell off the frame.

I actually did this by myself with a pair of floor jacks and 2x4 wider then the body. Here are some pictures of the results. YOU MUST SECURE THE BODY WHEN ITS OFF THE FRAME! I cant stress that enough. The wind will blow it away if you don't. There are pictures of a on this site of a 28ft that was off the frame and the wind picked it up and blew it over and destroyed it. In the pictures I posted I drove 2x4's into the ground a couple feet as a support and to secure it. It faired a few good storms that way.

Anyway once you get the body off then you can deal with the Belly pan.

[59toaster]

Ohhh yeah....This place is off 41 behind the Coke plant. They will have Elevator bolts in stock. They are where 3 way and the other RV places in the area get them from.

http://www.tftsonline.com/

[0557]

I wonder if wrapping the edge of the flooring with dupont tyvek would work as a moisture barrier, or cover the entire floor with the tyvek on top and underneath.

[A-Merry-Can]

Originally Posted by 59toaster

Jordan:

Welcome to the forum. I live right down the road for you off Hw5 in Marietta!...

wow! and a '59 as well? thanks for the tip on securing the body. i have actually thought about lifting the shell in my garage, rather than out in the yard for that very reason. one of the advantages of a 15 foot body! i'm still planning on poping the shell of either wednesday or thursday, so i can start welding on the frame. i'm planning on recruiting a few eager friends... luring them in with beer and pizza. once the shell is of, how did you support the actual body? i'm afraid to support it by the 3 temporary cross members i added, since they are only drilled into 6 of the ribs. i was planning on putting a 2X6 running under each wall so i can support a few additional ribs. is this necessary?

i'm planning on replacing the springs and axles (using an axle with electric brakes). did you replace yours when you did your restoration? if so, did you stick with leaf springs or change over to the tortion suspension set-up? i think i'm sticking with leafs, but maybe adign shocks. i might upgrade the axle and spring rating to 3500 in case my new interior weighs more than teh original. i think the original weight on mine was only something like 2100. it was lighter than our motorcycle trailer with 2 bikes on the trip home.

how long is your trailer? the window arrangementr looks similar to a '55 safari we were tempted by. the extra 4 feet would have made more floor layout options, but there's something about a shortie that i just love. good thing our dogs are small!

i'd love to see your trailer sometime! always nice to see another vintage silver pickle out there.

jordan

[59toaster]

I supported the body for a month on just the 2x4 frame you see in the pictures. It was more sturdy then you would think. Make sure you put a brace across the door opening as well.

The springs are a odd length and you are not going to find them off the shelf. Going to a 3500 lb spring might be a bad idea. It will pound the trailer rather then flex and absorb bumps. The 3500lb axle is just fine however.

My axle appears to be in good shape. The rust on my frame was not very bad at all. Just rust on the very last cross member that required it to be replaced. I was very fortunate in that. So far I have not found any reason to need to change my axle. If I do change mine I will by a off the shelf axle and if I need to adjust its width I will will cut it in the center and sleeve it. I may go with a straight axle with no drop as well. Get a little extra clearance under the tail that way.

Our Coach is a 22ft Caravanner. The Safari, Flying Cloud, Falcon, Custom and the Caravanner are all built on the same 22ft platform. The difference is interior lay out and window placement. The Safari and Cavanner in some years do run the full street side window arrangement.

Here is a great site with a VERY extensive photo archive if you have not found it yet. www.vintageairstream.com

The shell is much lighter then you realize. A sheet of exterior skin 4x12ft is only 22lb. 2 people could handle the 18ft weight wise. its the awkwardness of the size thats the problem.


Ohhhhh I have devised a trick for the belly pan. I used some 1 inch x1/8 bar and ran a couple strips to rivet to. The sides that are visible end just under the coach and I have four panels that are removable without having to get under the edge of the shell. I will try to get some pictures today. If it doesn't rain I am hoping to put the brake wires in and the Umbilical so I can get the front pans up.

The question of rot prevention has come up a few times. Most of us that were posting in the Full Monty all sealed the new decking with a Epoxy resin of the variety you would see used in Boats. I bought what I used at West Marine on US 41. I also put down Sheet Vinyl flooring before I put the U channel on. The hope was to seal it edge to edge. So far so good.

The thought with the sheet flooring is no seam and it should make a gasket when stuff is bolted down through it. The main areas may eventually get a laminate floating wood floor down over it. With two young kids It may be a little while as this will be easy to keep clean.

Have to shoot me some direction to your place so I can swing by one day and take a peak.

[MarkR]

Originally Posted by 59toaster

Ohhhhh I have devised a trick for the belly pan. I used some 1 inch x1/8 bar and ran a couple strips to rivet to. The sides that are visible end just under the coach and I have four panels that are removable without having to get under the edge of the shell. . . .

I'd be very interested in photos or a sketch of the trick belly pan - trick is good. That's one of the issues I've been befuddled by - the idea of having to drill out rivets at the perimeter to get to a problem with plumbing or whatever else ends up in the belly pan seems crazy.
and thanks for all your help. Mark

[Over59]

You really want to put the belly pan on before you put the shell back on. Trust me, you don't want to be doing it after the fact unless you had a prefect pattern for the belly pan. Your only wiggle will be slipping the belly pan / channel between the ribs and exterior shin. Don't forget the belly pan makes part of the wheel well detail.

[59toaster]

Originally Posted by MarkR

I'd be very interested in photos or a sketch of the trick belly pan - trick is good. That's one of the issues I've been befuddled by - the idea of having to drill out rivets at the perimeter to get to a problem with plumbing or whatever else ends up in the belly pan seems crazy.
and thanks for all your help. Mark

Still have to drill some but not where the Shell meets the belly pan. Our coach had been rn down a few things and damaged the visible edge of the pan. The rivets also failed and let the pan hang. That hanging and moving let the out riggers wear slots into the pan that were visible from the side.


What I did is took 1 inch wide 1/8 thing aluminum bar and ran a firing strip. That let me put a 12 inch wide piece of 2024 T3 Alcad when the pan rolls under that matches the shell. The belly is a cheaper grade of aluminum. At $12 a foot its a little pricey to do the whole belly in 2024 T3. I then used the original belly pan with the damaged edge cut off to fill in the bottom where it really is not visible.

[A-Merry-Can]

i like that idea. so it appears that the corner pan pieces are only at the edges, rather than wrapping around underneath the body. interesting approach, i can't wait to see it in person sometime!

i plan on welding some material on the edges of my outriggers to keep them from slicing the new pan when i do it. i think a 1 inch flat piece that follows the curve would work awesome, and even add some structure to it as well.

jordan