Lithiums: Is my dealer giving me the straight scoop?

[TravlinMan]

Ok maybe I was foolin a lil bit but it does break my heart to see a man go without his coffee.

[PKI]

It may be possible to Airstream without coffee, but it helps with attentive driving and making coffee is an appropriate skill to develop. Just don't spill the coffee on the electronics. Pat

Drip, drip, drip .....

[SilverHouseDreams]

Originally Posted by TinkersToy

We purchased 100AH BattleBorn Lithium Ion (LIon) battery manufactured in USA (Nevada) that weighs 29 pounds and so far works great. It is charged using the AS 22FB Sport factory 3-stage charger that bulk charges about 14.4 volts and floats at 13.6 volts. The battery is equipped with a built in management system so no special charger is necessary. I have tested it running the refrigerator, roof fan and all interior LED lighting for 6-hours with very minor drop in voltage. No issues during 5-day boon docking. The LIon Battery provides the full 100 AH as compared to a Lead Acid with around 50% of the rated AH, and it recharges much quicker, has no fumes, and it weighs much less. There are a number of cost studies showing savings over the life of the LIon battery compared to an equivalent deep cell lead acid.

TinkersToy, curious how you're experience has progressed on the Battle Born with your 3-stage converter in the 22FB. I just installed one in my 2011 22FB, but I actually ran into issues getting the converter to charge adequately without some futzing to generate enough load to get the voltage to drop. Do you have a battery monitor on yours to track in/out amp hours? Curious how it has turned out since your posting here.

[TinkersToy]

Xipper, while we have no issues with enough juice from the LifePO4 during boon docking (have not needed our solar), I also realized that the Wfco panel was not fully charging the LifePO4 battery because of the 13.6 volt float setting. I contacted Wfco but received no usable advice.

So I purchased a Progressive Dynamics (Made in America) 14.6 volt 30 amp LiFePO4 charger from Jay athttps://rvpowerhouse.com/shop/ at a better price than BattleBorn to charge the battery when hooked to AC. Problem solved.

[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by TinkersToy

Xipper, while we have no issues with enough juice from the LifePO4 during boon docking (have not needed our solar), I also realized that the Wfco panel was not fully charging the LifePO4 battery because of the 13.6 volt float setting. I contacted Wfco but received no usable advice.

So I purchased a Progressive Dynamics (Made in America) 14.6 volt 30 amp LiFePO4 charger from Jay athttps://rvpowerhouse.com/shop/ at a better price than BattleBorn to charge the battery when hooked to AC. Problem solved.

Did I see that this Lithium battery costs $900 each? Do you have any actual data on life span vs regular stock batteries from Interstate? I have heard recently (talking with the Interstate guys), the lifespans are about the same 2-4 years with proper care?

[SCOTTinNJ]

Originally Posted by gypsydad

Did I see that this Lithium battery costs $900 each? Do you have any actual data on life span vs regular stock batteries from Interstate? I have heard recently (talking with the Interstate guys), the lifespans are about the same 2-4 years with proper care?

Lithiums should last 2000-4000 cycles vs. 500-1000. So 4x longer. They charge faster and can be discharged further. They also weigh significantly less.

Of course downside is price and charging at below freezing temps.

More info here:

https://www.victronenergy.com/blog/2...um-ion-vs-agm/

[dmbecke]

If lithium batteries can't be charged in cold weather, how does Tesla plan to charge cars in the winter?

[rmkrum]

Tesla and Toyota's Prius uses different battery chemistry for automotive traction batteries.

LiFePO4 technology (BattleBorn and others) are the ones you cannot recharge below freezing...

[SilverHouseDreams]

Originally Posted by TinkersToy

Xipper, while we have no issues with enough juice from the LifePO4 during boon docking (have not needed our solar), I also realized that the Wfco panel was not fully charging the LifePO4 battery because of the 13.6 volt float setting. I contacted Wfco but received no usable advice.

So I purchased a Progressive Dynamics (Made in America) 14.6 volt 30 amp LiFePO4 charger from Jay athttps://rvpowerhouse.com/shop/ at a better price than BattleBorn to charge the battery when hooked to AC. Problem solved.

Thanks, that is what I am finding. I was able to "trick" the WFCO into actually going into a mode that would charge the Battle Born, but it is now back to "float" mode and even though I am on shore power everything is drawing from the battery and will likely remain so until the voltage drops to much closer to 13.2V, which is 70% SoC. At that point, in theory the WFCO would kick into a mode (absorption) that would charge slowly back to 100%, but doing that 3 times would result in using a "cycle".

I am contemplating trying to change the voltage detection circuit on the WFCO, but without any detail on how exactly it determines when to go into "float" with 13.2V it is a pointless exercise. I am sure I could come up with a way to force it into absorption, and maybe bulk charge, but ultimately the charge manager will override my efforts given time (e.g. 4 hours for bulk to absorption transition). I wish I could just disable float and I think the issue would go away, if it would cycle between bulk (14.4V) and absorption (13.6V) that would probably be about perfect.

I was looking at the PD9145AL or the PD9160AL, but am not sure where I would mount it. Where did you install yours?

The Iota DLS-55 would also be almost perfect, as it can be manually put into 14.2V mode or 13.6V. I guess Battle Born is saying that a constant 14.6V won't hurt anything, I just wonder if that is forcing their balancing circuitry to always be active...where if you dropped to 13.6V that matches the resting voltage of the battery pretty closely, though 13.7V would likely be a better resting voltage for the converter.

I wish there were more programmable options for shore power converters, I have no desire/need for a converter so I can't justify the expense of a inverter/charger like those from Victron.

[SilverHouseDreams]

Originally Posted by dmbecke

If lithium batteries can't be charged in cold weather, how does Tesla plan to charge cars in the winter?

The better EVs engage thermal management as well, with active heating and cooling of the batteries before charging and while in use. My BMW i3 has active heating and cooling for the battery pack, and I believe Tesla does as well. Nissan didn't initially and their customers suffered because of it, in the newer models I understand they added thermal management.