WBCCI MOHO Poll

[cooperhawk]

Bryan
You're preaching to people who revel in discourse. If it wasn't this, it would be something else. No life of their own I would guess. I really marvel at the level of venom that is thrown around.

The poles that are taken on this forum are relatively worthless. They represent a small percentage of the WBCCI and are fanned on by the firebrands, until people seem to lose all sense of decency and logic.

From studying history, I think the French Revolutiion was more civil.

OFF WITH THEIR HEADS!!

[Pat370]

Very well said Gunner.

Pat370

[2airishuman]

ok folks there is a topic 4 this thread...

which is the inclusion of non airstream rv units in the club...

and the ibt click that wants this to happen...

ignore the lectures and preaching. it misdirects us from the bigger issues...

right now it's another brand of mohos...

but it could be 5th wheels next...

right now it is a specific thor brand...

but should 4winds fall on hard times,

it could be other moho brands next...

klevan has made a great point...

about the financial perks. this issue should not be ignored...

yes this $$ is to cover travel to wb functions...

but regardless it pays for travel and upkeep for...

airstream mohos currently and these ibt folks specifically.

the ibt is so disconnected from the general membership that they need a translator just to get it...

then they ignore it...

most of the ibt functions are a huge waste of club funds...

but it DOES give these folks something to do and feel important about...

virtually everything they travel for could be done with confernce calls or video conferences...

real businesses do things this way regularly,

because travel is costly and time consuming unless absolutely necessary....

i found it poetic that the FIRST thing these folks did at salem...

was approve themselves an increase in reimbursement...

i'm happy for the few units and intraclubs that prosper and enjoy camping...

but they do it inspite of the ibt/parent club...

do we really need our dues and int rally fees going to the ibt'rs who have another agenda?

unless one is on the ibt tenure track, most comments, ideas and suggestions are ignored...

yes the folks reading and posting here are a biased sampling of members and NON members and FORMER members...

but that IS ok...

this is the air forums community after all...

cheers
2air'

oh and good post gunner!

[wheel interested]

Lots of well expressed thoughts here. I voted no in the poll and think my reasons have been covered sufficiently and much more brightly than I could have expressed myself so i will leave the rationale to be as described below.

Is it just me or do others see only two types of posts here basically? There are those against the motorhome motion, and those against those against the motorhome issue. I find the group advocating the change obviously absent, not unlike the name change.

We have those freely offering their stand and trying to make a case for it and then we have those who do not declare their stand but say we are feeling incorrectly, proceeding incorrectly, to hush, to proceed slower. We are not in order to address the issues in our chosen way of assembling and free speech. Unscrupulous they say! Balderdash, I say.

Proceed slower? That's just it. We are NOT proceeding, we are defending ourselves from the proceeding and talking about the vote that will be coming to us. Where are all the people who have brought the vote TO us? Where is their case?

We joined a club with a name and constitution in place, when we do not want that to change, we are the impetuous types. ???????????????

[jcanavera]

Originally Posted by wheel interested

Is it just me or do others see only two types of posts here basically? There are those against the motorhome motion, and those against those against the motorhome issue. I find the group advocating the change obviously absent, not unlike the name change.

Where are all the people who have brought the vote TO us? Where is their case?

Well I guess it's back to the fact that this issue was not really discussed with the unit membership before it was brought forward at the IBT meeting. So for all intents the universe of supporters are pretty small.

Do these folks lurk here? Maybe. Do they occupy the WBCCI site? Maybe. But even if you consider this forum hostile to the leadership, why couldn't they have floated a trial balloon on their site to at least involve those members who are electronically active? Wouldn't have cost a penny. That's why the process used to bring this forward smells. These folks at the top end are really shooting themselves in the foot.

Jack

[wheel interested]

There Jack you just mentioned what I logged back on to question! The IBT is in office to represent the membership, but the motion has been made from the IBT level for the benefit of the IBT level. Had the members urged their units to bring forth the motion, this discussion might not exist.

My question to the parliamentarians and wanna-bees is what is prescribed in the constitution and by-laws as appropriate business for the IBT to generate at that level?

What a lot of time and resources have been dedicated to taking away first the name and then taking away WBCCI's identity. Interesting to me was that the rationale for the motion was challenged as to identifying the Airstream RV Owners Association rather than the WBCCI and the rationale language was not ammended but was instead reaffirmed to be of the proper intent.

[WayWard Wind]

Sometime ago A/S announced they would not be mfc A/S motorhomes. This decision ,
A/S said, was because the Thor Corp. owned several other RV MFC that was already in the MH market and was quite successful in that market. For A/S to MFC motorhomes would be redundent MFC and probably would not be as successful. IT IS MY FEELING that Thor Corp may have also decided at the same time to launch the "Airstream Edition", to further enhance and possibly entice more buyers to purchase the UPGRADED " Airstream Edition ", creating a higher profit line $ to Thor stockholdrs. If this might be the case, would it not also give the "Airstream Edition" more creditability if it was, so called "endorsed " by the WBBCI? Whatever happens, the Airstream name,Logo, etc is the property of Thor Corp and I believe they alone can call anything they MFC an A/S. OTOH I do not believe the WBBCI can include the "Airstream
Edition" without a change in the requirements to join. All in all this thing is a confusing mess.
Best,

[Air Apparent]

Talk of hostility and inappropriate behavior related to the code of ethics ....

Folks, my impression in reading these forums is that it is mainly civil. Go read the forums on other RV sites and that is where you see real hostility and uncivil comments. You don't see flamming on this forum.

I don't classify having an opinion different than mine as being uncivil even if the person is passoniate about their position. To me being civil means being respectful of the other individual whether I agree or not.

I may be missing something here on the topic of allowing a specific SOB into the club as an Airstream Edition - but it doesn't seem too complicated. Either your for it or your against it.

Both sides will make voluminous arguments supporting their position and will make it much more complicated than it really is. I don't need all that; I'm probably too simple minded to understand all that. I can decide whether I want the club to be "Airstream Pure" or not.

Listening to all the rules and regulations talk makes me sick. My Airstream is for RECREATION and on my free time I don't want to deal with a bunch of unneeded rules and regulations.

Air Apparent

[InsideOut]

Originally Posted by wheel interested

Where are all the people who have brought the vote TO us? Where is their case? ???????????????

But this is the way it currently works Carol.

An individual or a small group of passionate members come up with an idea, good or bad. They present it to the IBT in the form of a motion. The IBT decides whether it has enough merit that it should be presented to the membership for consideration...if it is accepted (like this MH issue) then it it put before the entire membership for a vote. To have major discussions, point & counterpoint prior to knowing whether it is actually going to be voted on would be pointless and confusing. The iBT does not decide whether a motion is adopted or not, the members do, through their Unit voting and the delegate process. The IBT only decides whether something should be presented to the members. It can only be adopted if more than 66% approve of it at the June meeting.

Yes, this particular motion does appear to favor the IBT members, however I doubt any of them are actually the authors of the motion itself. Supporters, probably...but their votes count no more than any other member's. If 12 (or 21 or whatever the number is) non-voters get out & vote NO on this issue, it'll degate the IBT member's votes.

Yes, the IBT members are more visible than most regular members, but everybody has the same opportunity to make their case by voicing their opinions to their friends and co-members.

Personally, I find it rather apathetic that many VAC members only want to be members of the VAC and don't come out to vote at the annual meetings - thinking I don't care what the main club does. These are the people I am going after!

I found it very interesting last year with the name change issue, my Unit had a mail-in vote. Every member was given the opportunity to vote...the ballot was in their newsletter. Plenty of time was alowed, all the rules were followed, etc. 1M1V. Right? No, not exactly.

What happened was a few members with Regional aspirations, started a telephone tree and called their friends, and some less active members that were marginally involved and encouraged them to just amil in their vote...FOR the name change. Of course, this was not an organized Unit effort in that the entire membership was called, just the hand-picked individuals that they felt could be swayed.

Unfortunately, the same effort was not made by the those AGAINST the motion. What resulted was, the for side came out on top - by 6 votes...even though the majority of the active members present at the business meeting were against the motion. The way our Unit works is the ratio of votes received are applied to the total number of delegate votes presented, so it is multiplied.

Being Past President, I was privvy to reivewing the ballots...many were sent in from lifetime members or people I had never met. Now think about that...I came up through the ranks - 2nd VP, 1st VP, Prez & Past Prez...and I had NEVER even met these people!!! Coincententally, many of my aquaintances that choose not to participate in the WBCCI wholly - those who prefer to just attend VAC-oriented events, did not vote. Most of these are just as passionate about their trailers & the original Airstream lifestyle that Wally envisioned, but they either didn't vote or showed up to vote at the business meeting and their vote didn't matter because of all the "homework" that was already done.

I'll tell you what, that will not happen again on this issue, not if I have anything to say about it! The most important thing we can all do is tlak to our friends and encourage them to vote...frankly, I don't care so much whether a motion wins or loses, just that it gets heard and a true majority is represented. I can adapt to the results...one way or another. I truly hope that on the MH issue, a true majority of informed voters is represented.

Okay, I'll get off my soapbox now

Shari

[Minnie's Mate]

WWW, there is no evidence that this was a Thor initiated move. There has, however, been a great deal of verbal evidence that it was initiated by the IBT. If anyone has any evidence to the contrary, please let them present it to us.

[WayWard Wind]

Minnie---Hopefully you did not mis-interupt my posting. I want to be clear that I did not say there was evidence of Thor involvement. I asked a question as to perhaps Thor's intentions with the issusing of the "Airstream Edition"models. Whatever the answer, it will come in due time. For me "nuf said" , I'm out of here for this one.
Best,

[Buttercup]

Hang on a second... We were sort of made aware of the MOHO issue a while ago when WBCCI sent out that survey in 2004. I believe that this MOHO issue has been the plan for years.

The poles that are taken on this forum are relatively worthless. They represent a small percentage of the WBCCI and are fanned on by the firebrands, until people seem to lose all sense of decency and logic.

Hmmm, Really. O.K. Question #7 of that survey specifically asks if the membership base should be "broadened" to include any RV product made by THOR. Over 1000 people responded to that.
Cooperhawk, check this out...
About 77% of the respondents either disagreed or strongly disagreed with the bulk being in the strongly disagree category. Oddly the feelings on this topic have not lessened. I wonder if you find that survey more meaningful.

We saw the writing on the wall and we even talked about this on the SaveWally forums and the AS forums and what did we get? The same thing we are getting now on this topic - people accusing those of us against this proposal of fanning the flames. We weren't fanning any flames and we were correct.

When somebody says that they feel that WBCCI leadership is not listening, here is why that is. Even using the channels that WBCCI developed, the membership as represented by the respondents of that survey stated in overwhelming fashion that they were opposed to letting other THOR brands. WBCCI leadership ignored that survey and They sought out to form the SCCAM committee, and they sought out to push a motion forward to do exactly what the membership did not want (and expressly stated so).

Unless we can behave by the code of conduct described in the WBCCI code of ethics and by what are generally considered appropriate guidelines for conducting business and working with each other, the rest of the issues are moot questions.

I'm sorry Bryan, to whom are you addressing this to? Those of us against the MOHO proposal or the IBT? it sure seems to fit both ways. Only, us detractors aren't really doing damage to the club. Nice of you to think that we have that much power but we don't. IBT has a lot of power. And how does that go? Absolute power corrupts....

[cooperhawk]

tHAT SHOULD BE Classic Motorhomes Online > Home

[swebster]

Just use the Magellan as your TV

[wkerfoot]

Originally Posted by swebster

Just use the Magellan as your TV

Steve,

That works, thanks for the idea.

Bill

[mistral blue]

Where do you put the red numbers?

[swebster]

On the Airstream of course

[mistral blue]

Now you're just messin' with me....

[wkerfoot]

Originally Posted by swebster

On the Airstream of course

That is the only place they belong.

Bill

[mistral blue]

I'm getting killed here. Where's my buddy Cooperhawk!