View Poll Results: Do you support the WBCCI's current plans to rebadge an SOB Class "A" motor home as an
Yes, I do support this. 26 10.61%
No, I do not support this. 219 89.39%
Voters: 245. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-18-2007, 05:19 PM   #21
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Well, well, well.

I have wanted an A/S for years, and eventhough it is still at the dealer I am the owner of a Minuet 6 Metre. Can't wait to get it here in the driveway and start to work. Now what club do I join? WBCCI? The VAC group are great in Colorado and I would really like to join in the fun, but that means I have to join up with WBCCI first. If the object is a Caravan Club then I say let anybody join regardless of product. Safety in numbers and lets all have a good time. If the object is an A/S club then I say, only A/S produced product. As much as I would like to associate with the local VAC group and will miss their company, I think I will join Escapees or Good Sam while I wait to see what happens to WBCCI. At any rate there is a great group right here and AIR and looks like the goal is to Rally and just have fun while we keep these great trailers and MOHO's on the road.

BTW I say no to the name change!!! But then I am not a member of WBCCI so it counts not.
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Old 01-18-2007, 06:31 PM   #22
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Why doesn't Thor just sell Airstream stickers that are manufactured in Jackson Center and let everybody join. NOT!
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Old 01-18-2007, 08:27 PM   #23
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Thumbs down Not only no, but Hell, No!

Quote:
Why would anyone waste time watching humorous but fictional episodes on a TV sitcom when they can tune in here to the real absurdities of the WBCCI?
Because sitcoms can be funny. This is just depressing.
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Old 01-18-2007, 09:48 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 65GT
A news breaker at another publicly open forum (not SaveWally.org) disclosed an Airstream Perk, supposedly confirmed by an International Past President (which I can not confirm) that at some level International Officers have the opportunity to get a brand new loaner vehicle to do the clubs business for one year and then get to buy that same 'used' RV at a heavy discount in the second year. I HAVE NO WAY OF BACKING THAT STORY UP SO TAKE IT FOR WHAT IT'S WORTH, but it was voluntarily posted by someone on another open WBCCI forum. It was portrayed as being pretty much common knowledge__
65GT,

How can you pull your punches here. The way the information about this program was presented to me (and then you) by the past International President is the REAL STORY - not the perk itself. Let me again share how it was explained to me.

Back in the early '90's (92-93?) a year or two before my friend became the Intl Pres, a vote came to the floor at International on whether WBCCI would recognize the new Airstream B Van owners for membership in the club. The voting body that first year shot down the B Van and chose not to recognize ownership of it as being worthy of WBCCI membership. Good for them.

As a way of spanking the club officers for them not pushing through the B Van, Airstream (Thor) took away the perk of using a new Airstream product of choice, at no cost, during an officers tenure in office. Coincidently, this perk was taken away just after the vote and just prior to my friend taking office as Intl Pres.

For whatever reason - the B Van vote passed the very next year. I don't know if AS ever reinstated the perk - I believe he said they did at some point. Please understand this story was shared with me at Happy Hour. I apologize for being fuzzy on this factoid.

Leo, the cruxted of this story is how AS threw their weight around to spank and potentially influence WBCCI officers. Not the perk itself.

Damn, if Airstream offered this program to Unit officers, would you take advantage of an awesome deal? I know I would, and it would be that dang 75th Winnick edition. But I'd have them add a slide out to it...kidding!

--dave
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Old 01-19-2007, 07:15 AM   #25
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I don’t get it.

All this Rant about Mfg and locations etc.

I don’t care where an AS is mfg. Matter of fact AS’s have not always been mfg. at JC.
And as for AS MH’s, very little, if any, of the unit is made by AS.
The MH’s are merely second or third party items accessorized by AS with items that are not even made by AS.
MH’s are really Chevrolets, Ford, Freightliner etc. They even have VIN by those parties.
There was much expectation of the new “Classic” which was collaboration with some company other than AS. The Base Camp is a Nissan concept. The Westfalia, a Mercedes painted silver and badged as an AS. The notorious B-190, not even an Airstream, simply a Ford fitted with products not made by AS and painted silver, badged as an AS. That unit may even be AS’s best seller as for “MH’s”.
Oh and how about that Fifth wheel. What was it called? Hmmm…. Oh, Integrity I think it was???????? Made by Airstream, I think……but not named AS?
I recall the concern about the price of the new Classic MH, which did not come to fruition. I bet if it were made in China and priced 25% less, people would still buy it and say things like, “well the quality is better in China, hell anybodies quality is probably better than Jack Ctr.” Many of the same people here griping about this subject are the same people that participated in the slam session about quality in Jacks Ctr.
Items made by others and called “my own” is common, it is the American way. It all comes down to the all mighty buck.
Auto manufactures have been doing it for years. We still line up to buy Fords that are manufactured by Mazda, Mitsubishi, or whoever makes it these days.
If you don’t believe that, look at some of the things Americans covet the most and claim as their own. Baseball, practically half of the players are from foreign countries that truly hold baseball high in their regard, maybe even higher than Americans. I have witnessed the Japanese and let me tell you, we are not even baseball fans by their standards.
And baseball has had many years of world wide exposure, how about that silly little sport of go fast turn left? You got it, NASCAR. Guess who is joining the ranks of that truly American sport, Toyota. I wonder how many NASCAR fans are burning their NASCAR paraphernalia or rioting and picketing the gates of the racetracks. Zip! Nada!

If you want a real eye opener, simply open any AS Owners manual, the silver three ring binder that comes with every MH. Only approximately 25% of the publication is Airstream, the rest is about included products made by some one other than AS.
And if you call Jack. Ctr. with maintenance concerns, you will get “Don’t ask us, we didn’t make it” I bet you will be directed to the real manufacturer. They may even have a toll free number that they will share with you.

And last but not least, of my American idealism bashing, I own two Harley Davidsons.
Imagine my dismay when I was gifted with a tool kit with the HD emblem emblazoned on the pouch, only to discover that every piece of the kit was made in China. And literally EVERY part I have ever purchased for the bikes was made in a foreign land.
Now if HD is not American what is?
By the way, I own a Classic, and I have owned a Landyacht. I can tell you from experience, for the most part, neither on of them were made by folks in Jackson Center, The units were however assembled in Jacks Ctr, but hey…….Its an Airstream.
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Old 01-19-2007, 10:16 AM   #26
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Repercussions...

Quote:
Originally Posted by 65GT

I mean we'd hate to try and figure out why the name change keeps coming up. Why Thor gets an official brass ring for "The Official SOB of the WBCCI."


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I can say that at the MOHO meeting one of the participants DID mention that they were concerned of what would be the result if the MOHO motion did not pass. I think that there are a few people who understand 2 things:
Thor does support the WBCCI in the way of posting advertising and other things which financially benefit the group. In fact one participant even mentioned just how much good THOR DID do for WBCCI. The suggestion possibly being that without that support WBCCI will be hurting even more.
Two - We are being reminded in a round-about way that we have a responsibility to THOR for all they have done for us.

THIS scares me. Is this what is driving this ship?

One final thought... Why are we doing for one group of members what was never done for ANY other member ever in the history of the WBCCI? When AS discontinued any model, what were the stranded members doing for that? I am a little perturbed that so much effort is going this direction when the rest of the membership of the club is suffering such membership loss. Do the needs of the few so greatly outweigh the needs of the many?
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Old 01-19-2007, 10:45 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boblee5244
Let me see if I have this right. rickandsandi thinks that because I have a motorhome I feel that I am better than others. I have been a member of WBCCI for 10 years and have never been told that I am an elitist. Being a retired truck-driver from Ky.just the opposite. I think that hurtfull in-general comments will do more to destroy this club than allowing Mandalay MH in.
Boblee-

Sorry it was a general remark of what I have seen at WBCCI rallies. There are exceptions to every rule and I am sure you are one of them.
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Old 01-19-2007, 11:43 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buttercup
Wait, they are working on building membership - Class "A" membership.

Funny that AS trailers are selling like hot cakes and despite being handed a membership for FREE, you can't keep these folks in the club.

.....
I was told they stopped doing that over a year ago. I paid for my first year's dues.

I think they would get more members by giving away the first year than allowing SOB's to join.

I have also noticed that the only WBCCI members in favor of allowing SOB's to join are those that have Land Yachts or big square boxes. I guess those are Land Yachts, too?
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Old 01-19-2007, 12:02 PM   #29
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MM,

You are correct on both counts. There will be a small % of the members who feel the pitch that IBT is making (these poor folks will be KICKED out of the club if we don't...) is valid and vote for it but the rest will see for what it really is.

They had a program whereby the dealers were giving away a free year with purchase but that was cancelled. Apparently, the loss rate was high with greater than 60% not renewing after the first year and probably a high percebntage not renewing after the second.

But picture this... We let the mandalay's in and 1000 members suddenly join the club driving that big box. What impression will the trailer buyers have when all they see is a sea of boxes. They will think that it is a Class "A" club and be likely to feel like it is not the club for them.

I am sure some class "A" owners will take offense to the following statement but here goes: There is a class (pun intended) distinction between the trailer owners and the big old class "A" owners. I felt it at the International in Salem and I know others have. I am a vintage owner so I don't care much for the the big units. Not that I can't afford it because I certainly could. I saw only Class "A" MOHO's near the hall and us vintage owners were out in the boonies. By nature of the structure inf the International it certainly does seem that a sort of preferential treatment is given to these folks and I don't see that as being good for the club. I would rather see things mixed up a little - but that will not happen.

Remember - it is likely that for the next 10+ years the president and higher up officers of the club will be Class "A" owners. There will be a very low percentage of trailer owners (meaning that is ALL they own) holding higher offices.
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Old 01-19-2007, 12:23 PM   #30
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I would think that what they are trying to do will require a change to the constitution of the club and require a 2/3's vote of the membership. Has anyone seen a draft of the change?
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Old 01-19-2007, 12:31 PM   #31
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Well yes it would. In fact it exactly what they are talking about. They have 2 items that will need to be passed.
The Class "A" Study Committee recommend to revise the WBCCI constitution to include Fourwinds (Mandalay) and/or Damon class "A" Motorhomes. The "manufactured by Airstream" requirement will also need to be revised to include "Airstream Edition Class "A" motorhomes manufactured by THOR."
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Old 01-19-2007, 12:44 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GO Bob
Why doesn't Thor just sell Airstream stickers that are manufactured in Jackson Center and let everybody join. NOT!

Bob- What a great idea! And since my company prints custom labels and decals everyone can place their orders with me. At least one of us will get something out of this. Lets see how many forum members times $2.50 per sticker and you need two of them?
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Old 01-19-2007, 12:46 PM   #33
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Yea, except you will need a license agreement to do that. Well, if these forums couldn't get that easily you won't either.
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Old 01-19-2007, 02:59 PM   #34
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Here is the amendment hot off of the WBCCI Forums....

Quote:
The Wally Byam Club International, Inc. Board of Trustees voted unanimously on Friday, Jan. 19, that owners of Class A motorhomes manufactured by Four Winds International Division of Thor Industries. Inc. and labeled on the coach “Airstream Edition” will be eligible to remain or become WBCCI members.
The entire motion on which the board voted 18-0 was:
“I move that the International Board of Trustees bring forth to the WBCCI delegates at the June, 2007, Delegates Meeting to amend the WBCCI International Constitution to include the words after “manufactured by Airstream, Inc.” as follows: “as well as the Class A motorhomes manufactured by the Four Winds International Division of Thor Industries, Inc. The Class A models of Four Winds motorhomes will be labeled “Airstream Edition” at their respective factory or by an authorized dealership in order to make their owners eligible to remain or become WBCCI members.”
The original motion, made by Region 12 President Jim Emlinger, limited eligibility for WBCCI membership to owner of Four Winds models Mandalay, Presidio, Valencia, Hurricane, Windsport and Magellan, which are both diesel and gas models and range in length from 30 feet to 40 feet.
The original motion was amended by Region One President Robert Thompson to eliminate the reference to Four Winds models and include all Class A motorhomes manufactured by Four Winds. Thompson said that in the future Four Winds could change model names and this would result in having to have another constitutional amendment. Thompson’s amendment also passed by a unanimous vote.
The rationale Emlinger provided with his motion stated:
“Airstream, Inc. (beginning in 1979) and their Argosy Division (beginning in 1974) have made thousands of Class A Motorhomes, both gas and diesel, which have all been accepted into the Airstream RV Owners Association. However, Aistream, Inc., has made the final decision to exit the Class A motorhome business. This will mean that the significant number of WBCCI members, who currently choose to own Class A motorhomes, will need to replace them, some sooner than others. Presently this will force those current members , who choose to own motorhomes, to leave WBCCI when they purchase a new motorhome. There are also WBCCI members who will need and want to own motorhomes, some for health reasons, who will also be forced out.
“WBCCI has already begun to lose membership, due to the lack of motorhome availability, and the effect of not acting on this motion will eventually cause most, if not all, units of WBCCI to lose a significant number of members. While acceptance of this amendment will make it possible for these current members to remain among their friends and continue their way of life that was so strongly promoted by Wally Byam, Additionally, this proposed change should not only help with membership retention, but also open up more opportunities for new members once “Airstream Editions” are available at Four Winds dealerships.
“The intent of this amendment is restricted to Class A motorhome models only, since Airstream, Inc., continues to build smaller motorhomes. This motion will not include trailers of any type.”
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Old 01-19-2007, 03:53 PM   #35
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Old 01-19-2007, 04:07 PM   #36
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Hold on one second....the Motorhomes made in Jackson Center are in fact built at Jackson Center and having been to the factory 3x, and have taken the tour for nearly a week while there for service, I saw the whole process of building the panels, etc, and actually watched them build one out for that week. There was a heck of a lot of building that was done by Airstream Factory Employees. They do order components and it's true the don't make the fiberglass from scratch, but the do a considerable bit more than what as been suggested in this thread. The 3 ring binder in the trailer manual is the same as it sounds with the MoHos...half if it being component manuals (fridge, A/C, heater, faucets, etc).

I also don't agree that an Airstream made anywhere is an Airstream, is a valid point if in fact the product being made is by a sister company of the parent, Thor. We're not talking cars here, we're talking an American icon. Yes, Airstreams were made in California, but there were made by the Airstream company there, not by the Itasca or Winnebego and labeled Airstream as is being suggested.

In the end, the numbers on the poll don't lie. Only a few select folks for whatever reason think this is a good idea....the majority don't...and if this is allowed, IMHO, it will only further blur the lines of an already problematic club that needs to standardize and regroup rather than add less distinction. No matter what I personally feel about the box Airstreams made at Jackson Center, by Airstream Factory Employees, serviced by Airstream dealers, it's still an Airstream in my book. Do I wish they handn't made boxes? Sure, I think it was a mistake, but I think it would be an even greater mistake to dilute the brand as is being suggested.

Now add to the fact that if what I heard was correct, Airstream dealers won't even support these, if that's true, how can one be happy in an Airstream club, cherish the heritage, but convienently throw all that heritage out the window to appease a select few?
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Old 01-19-2007, 04:27 PM   #37
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Thor RV Owners Association

As support for the Four Winds MoHo motion, the rationale states in part:

“Airstream, Inc. (beginning in 1979) and their Argosy Division (beginning in 1974) have made thousands of Class A Motorhomes, both gas and diesel, which have all been accepted into the Airstream RV Owners Association.

What club is that? Doesn't the IBT even know the name of the club for which they serve as Trustees??!!

Now its becoming clear why the IBT wanted to jettison Wally Byam last year -- he had no connection with the proposed new alternate RV supplier, Four Winds. Why don't they skip the baby steps, rebadge the WBCCI as the Thor RV Owners Association, and throw the doors wide open? That would give them plenty more people to drive away. Just think of the numbers!
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Old 01-19-2007, 04:54 PM   #38
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QUICK - somebody give me a blood pressure pill!!!!
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Old 01-19-2007, 10:47 PM   #39
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I'm with you Leo. At first I thought your rants were a bit over the top, but after seeing the news coming out of Perry today I am floored at the bold notions of these SOB lovin rascals. Infiltration of multiple SOB's is just too much to consider.

This isn't just about a Class A solution for a few who require that convenience. This has fast become an assault of white box SOB's on our club which was built around one thing - aluminum Airstream trailers.

This will be put to vote by the entire member base - correct? We need to all start communicating this issue at the Unit level now. This is gonna get ugly, that's for sure. I think the name change fight of last year will pale in comparison.

I'm glad I signed up for Perry. I want to witness the blood bath first hand.

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Old 01-19-2007, 11:06 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by micsupply
I'm with you Leo. At first I thought your rants were a bit over the top, but after seeing the news coming out of Perry today I am floored at the bold notions of these SOB lovin rascals. Infiltration of multiple SOB's is just too much to consider.

This isn't just about a Class A solution for a few who require that convenience. This has fast become an assault of white box SOB's on our club which was built around one thing - aluminum Airstream trailers.

This will be put to vote by the entire member base - correct? We need to all start communicating this issue at the Unit level now. This is gonna get ugly, that's for sure. I think the name change fight of last year will pale in comparison.

I'm glad I signed up for Perry. I want to witness the blood bath first hand.

--Dave
Dave,

Leo is over the top, but as Henry Kissinger said "even paranoids have enemies"

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