View Poll Results: Do you support the WBCCI's current plans to rebadge an SOB Class "A" motor home as an
Yes, I do support this. 26 10.61%
No, I do not support this. 219 89.39%
Voters: 245. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-22-2007, 06:28 PM   #81
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No, Leo, I am not picking on anyone. I try very hard to stick with specific behaviors and let the shoe fit where it may. Sometime it even fits me.

Quote:
There's simply no reason for this club to be dictating this horrid dress
There is no "dictating" - how many times does this falsehood have to be squashed? Why is this myth mongering so persistent?

As far as WBCCI bylaws are concerned, any dress 'dictat' is simply a request in a protocol book where the officer presiding at an event requests those invited to attend to comply with certain expectations. That is it.

Protocol books are usually considered a very nice thing because they help invitees to a function avoid embarrassment. It used to be that considerate and polite behavior like this was admired and respected. From what I have seen here, I am beginning to wonder if this value has been displaced.
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Old 01-22-2007, 06:55 PM   #82
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Actually the dress has been relaxed I have been informed. The first ladies used to have to wear white suits and I think the officers have made a change, but not being to these functions before I have no basis for comparison. But Don is making changes and in there trying. I had a long post on WBCCI survival I framed tonight and it went to cyber heaven. I keep getting dropped.
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Old 01-22-2007, 08:31 PM   #83
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WBCCI MOHO Poll

I am a newer Airsteam owner and member. I emailed someone who has been active in Airstreaming for many years whose opinions I respect. This is his response.
Airstream has gone out of the Motor Home production business. It was no longer (if it ever was) economical for them to produce a MH with the kind of volume (low) that they had. This leaves a number of members (I think the estimate is about 1000) that have no where to go if/when they want to upgrade (motor homes do not have the life expectancy of trailers). SO the only choice Airstream MH owners have is to move to another brand - thus making them leave WBCCI. I do not see that additional reduction over time as a good thing for the club.

The club asked THOR (who is the largest RV production company in the US and parent of Airstream) if they would brand one of their existing product lines as an Airstream - and they agreed to do that - not a full re-branding, but an Airstream edition. That is what the question is about - should we go ahead with that.

I do not know what this poll will do or effect, since each unit will have a vote on this issue at the delegates meeting at the International Rally in Georgia this summer. Our unit will vote how our members direct our president to vote.

Personally, I would like to see it accepted to keep our membership at a viable level. Actually, it will probably be a better MH than Airstream has produced since they had a limited production capability.

There are purists out there who want to see nothing but trailers - but I believe that is a loosing proposition. I would rather see our club continue as a viable enterprise so that we can continue to offer functions that can be attractive to all - and we can only do that with enough members to support such activity.
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Old 01-22-2007, 08:49 PM   #84
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Wish I had done that. Good practice to follow. Yup I have surfaced here in Ohio, rain and freezing temperatures then plows on the interstate and unplowed roads here. Does this look frozen, cause it all was!

I don't agree that the club cannot withstand criticism, it may not all be palatable as some may prefer but the meaning remains. There is a faction that thinks anything less than complimentary should not pass our lips or pen, but I think to be a whole one must admit the positive and the negative and publish the observations, perhaps add commentary and then let each demonstrate their own preference with a vote. This way no one person has the advantage over another.

Save Wally is a volunteer group and not an institution that has extended itself to be obliged to meet with others' requirements. If you like what you hear stay tuned for more, if you do not just stand down until you find your druthers.
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Old 01-22-2007, 08:49 PM   #85
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tslanier,

There really is no valid reason why we have to let rebreanded MOHOs in that are not now or never will be Airstreams into the club. It is an Airstream club. Not an Airstream and Four Winds Club. The dropping membership in the club is a direct product of the leadership's failing ability to modernize to the current demographic.
The only sales pitch which the IBT can give is exactly the words which you repeated here. But it not the only solution. There are already other ideas which protect the 50+ year history of the club while still honoring the members who are perhaps in a predicament (but that is debatable). Read these threads and you will see suggestions like grandfathering for example.
The argument which was presented to you and is really the IBT's talking points are not the solution. And in fact will really mean the dissolution of the club, not the building of memberships.
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Old 01-22-2007, 08:50 PM   #86
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Paradox

There was once a quote from a general in Viet Nam, discussing the total destruction of a particular village, who said, "We had to destroy the village to save the village."

I sometimes feel that attitude is being presented here. To "save" the WBCC, we have to "destroy" it by taking in SOBs, changing the name, etc., etc., etc.

IF that is the case, maybe we shouldn't "save" it.
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Old 01-22-2007, 08:59 PM   #87
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Oh I hope we save it - the Save Wally way, not the IBT way! Why did the IBT ignore the suggestion to grandfather? Hmmmm.
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Old 01-22-2007, 09:12 PM   #88
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I don't think letting the motorhomes in will be the death of the club. But how issues are addressed (or NOT adressed) may be. I don't think the minority of motorhome owners should feel such assurance without canvasing the majority of the club and convincing the club of the reason to change the constitution thusly and acting as it is a slam dunk. Some of the decision making is left to opportunity, convenience and desire rather than researching what motorhome and why, are there other alternatives, is this motion presented as tightly and as well thought out as possible? Two days before the motion it was two lines of motorhomes, during the motion it was rewritten as it transpired, also without members having that new rewrite open for discussion. And again we are back to PR and communication., pro and con. I am good to go with whatever the majority of members vote but I want to see real voting procedures taken and real effort and work done on both sides to lobby our support. It isn't so much the what, as the way, imho.
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Old 01-22-2007, 09:22 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buttercup
Oh I hope we save it - the Save Wally way, not the IBT way! Why did the IBT ignore the suggestion to grandfather? Hmmmm.
I don't know.
Was it in fact suggested? By whom? When? Where? How?
I'd love to hear the specifics.

Did the IBT simply ignore the suggestion or did they address it in any way?
We can all speculate as to why and post here our theories if they merely ignored the suggestion, but that won't move the debate forward.
Ignoring the suggestion speaks volumes all by itself.

I don't think any of us want to engage in conspiracy theories. Do you have Nixon and his cronies speaking to this on tape?
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Old 01-22-2007, 09:31 PM   #90
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You can hear better than specifics. we have posted the whole meeting at savewally.org. Just CLICK HERE to see what we have.
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Old 01-22-2007, 09:35 PM   #91
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How was the actual voting by individual members handled last year on the Name Change? Was it by mail in ballot or something from the Blue Beret? If so, what issue was the ballot so I can keep a look out for it.
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Old 01-22-2007, 09:41 PM   #92
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We have the results of the units that we could who published the voting HERE.
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Old 01-22-2007, 09:43 PM   #93
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I'm sorry Buttercup: I'm gettin' soft in the head, my eyes are failing and I can barely hear anymore.
I just don't recall hearing the "grandfather" suggestion being made at the meeting or the IBT's response. Could you pin it down for me a little where I might find the "missing minutes"?
I promise I won't sleep through it again.
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Old 01-22-2007, 09:47 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnie's Mate
How was the actual voting by individual members handled last year on the Name Change? Was it by mail in ballot or something from the Blue Beret? If so, what issue was the ballot so I can keep a look out for it.
Each unit has a number of votes equal to the number of regular members in the unit. Each unit's deligate will cast the votes for the unit at the international. The methods for voting in each unit varies. Some units vote at a meeting, some use a mail or email method. Contact your unit for more information. MAL members do not get a vote.
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Old 01-22-2007, 09:47 PM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnie's Mate
How was the actual voting by individual members handled last year on the Name Change? Was it by mail in ballot or something from the Blue Beret? If so, what issue was the ballot so I can keep a look out for it.
It is done by Unit and each Unit has a slightly different way of voting based on their Bylaws. Usually there is a Annual Meeting sometime in May (before International) and individual votes are cast by members. Some Units allow mail-in ballots or email or telephone votes...but it all depends on your Unit. Then a delegate is sent to International with the Unit's decision based again on the Bylaws of that Unit. The delegate casts their Unit's vote at the delegates meeting and the IBT tallies the count. For major motions - like changing the club name or allowing non-AS made RVs in - a 2/3 vote is required for the motion to carry. If less than 2/3 is acheived, the motion fails.

So the bottomline is, check with your Unit to see how/when voting occurs...it's supposed to be announced in the Unit newsletter & schedule at least several weeks in advance. The "how" can be confirmed in your Unit's Bylaws...our Unit includes them in each years directory & online.

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Old 01-22-2007, 11:05 PM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tslanier
I am a newer Airsteam owner and member. I emailed someone who has been active in Airstreaming for many years whose opinions I respect. This is his response.
Airstream has gone out of the Motor Home production business. It was no longer (if it ever was) economical for them to produce a MH with the kind of volume (low) that they had. This leaves a number of members (I think the estimate is about 1000) that have no where to go if/when they want to upgrade (motor homes do not have the life expectancy of trailers). SO the only choice Airstream MH owners have is to move to another brand - thus making them leave WBCCI. I do not see that additional reduction over time as a good thing for the club.

The club asked THOR (who is the largest RV production company in the US and parent of Airstream) if they would brand one of their existing product lines as an Airstream - and they agreed to do that - not a full re-branding, but an Airstream edition. That is what the question is about - should we go ahead with that.

I do not know what this poll will do or effect, since each unit will have a vote on this issue at the delegates meeting at the International Rally in Georgia this summer. Our unit will vote how our members direct our president to vote.

Personally, I would like to see it accepted to keep our membership at a viable level. Actually, it will probably be a better MH than Airstream has produced since they had a limited production capability.

There are purists out there who want to see nothing but trailers - but I believe that is a loosing proposition. I would rather see our club continue as a viable enterprise so that we can continue to offer functions that can be attractive to all - and we can only do that with enough members to support such activity.
The issue here (as with last year's name change) is what kind of club do you want? WBCCI was founded to honor Wally Byam and as a place for owners of his trailers to meet other owners and travel together to new places. If this is no longer the goal of WBCCI, then two things should happen: 1) change the name to eliminate Wally Byam and 2) allow any RV owner to join. Why should we limit the membership to just Thor products. If a member wants a Country Coach, Fleetwood, Newell, Winnebago or some other RV (Class A, Class B, Travel Trailer or Toy Hauler) why should they be forced to leave their friends here and find new friends somewhere else? Let them all in.

From the WBBCI website: "The Wally Byam Caravan Club is now one of the largest clubs in trailering, and it is a remarkable tribute to Wally. It demonstrates once more, and in an excellent way, the effect he had upon those around him. Most men would have insisted upon controlling the club; Wally let his followers keep control."

From the announcement of the 2009 International Rally Site: "... WBCCI, the Airstream owners club, is the oldest and largest single brand recreational vehicle owners club in the world.
Last year was Airstream's 75th production year of the distinctive aluminum, bullet-shaped trailer, an American icon. The trailer was designed originally by Wally Byam in 1931. Of three trailers made in 1935 one is still towed and shown annually at the International Rally. More that 60 percent of the manufactured Airstream trailers are still in use today.
Besides enjoying their trailers and travel, Airstreamers bring to the rally host city a variety of community charitable services..." Mention of trailers but no mention of the valuable motorhomes. The WBCCI is the oldest and largest single brand recreational vehicle owners club in the world, not for long if this motion passes in July.

According to the IBT meeting, motorhomes were not allowed as members until 1995, eleven years ago. During that time either 20% (1340) or 15% (1005) or 900 or some other number are owned by members. Nowhere in the rationale for this change did the IBT state the age of the motorhomes by year, how many are owned by current and former Region and International officers or how many owners expect to replace their motorhome each year for the next few years. The rationale was Airstream is not making a motorhome, current owners cannot replace them with Airstream products and therefore they will leave WBCCI and the WBCCI cannot afford to lose these members.

WBCCI lost 317 members in 2004, 17 in 2005, 535 in 2006 and 356 this year for a total of 1,225 members, and this is with Airstream still producing motorhomes. What is being done to prevent this from occurring? I tell you --- Allow other Thor build motorhomes into the club. This one step will solve all of the membership problems. Another thing I forgot, if you don't like the funny hats, buy a Winnebago and leave (yeah right, that will solve the declining membership problem).
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Old 01-23-2007, 07:02 AM   #97
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Thanks Azflycaster and InsideOut for the info on voting. I joined in August and knew I hadn't had any opportunities to vote yet...at least I didn't see anything in the Blue Beret yet. I haven't read every issue cover to cover, though.
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Old 01-23-2007, 10:54 AM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 65GT
If leadership is so important to them they'll find a way to stay in AS MANUFACUTURED product or they'll go lead somewhere else....

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Amen!
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Old 01-23-2007, 01:52 PM   #99
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Incomprehensible!

How can the leaders of Wally's club, my club, your club, lead this club in something that is not an Airstream?

I don't want them to leave WBCCI. I just want my leaders to be in an Airstream. Is that to much to expect? Am I missing something?

I'd even accept them buying some old, forgotten '77 Argosy24 for two hundred bucks and using that as their connection to the club. But it has got to be some kind of Airstream doesn't it? Please help me. I just don't get it.

They want to lead the WBCCI and drive a Mandalay?
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Old 01-23-2007, 04:44 PM   #100
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Follow the Money

I think you all are missing the key rea$on$ these folks want to stay in leadership positions, and it isn't because they love Airstreams...

From the Blue Book:
"International Officers (President, 1st, 2nd, and 3rd Vice Presidents, Secretary and Treasurer) and
Immediate Past President, will be reimbursed for attendance at official WBCCI activities and
Airstream activities where deemed necessary by the International President. No more than one
(1) member of the Executive Committee may be reimbursed for travel to the same rally unless
their attendance is specifically requested by the President of WBCCI. Region Officers
(President, 1st and 2nd Vice Presidents) will be reimbursed only for attendance at official
WBCCI activities within their Region, or at Airstream activities when requested by the
International President, with the exception of the International Board of Trustees meetings as set
forth in paragraph 1 above. (6/21/89)
a. International President $11,500.00 plus one-way travel expenses to Board of Trustee
meetings, other than those above, based on a budget submitted to the Treasurer prior to July
1, for approval of the Executive Committee on or before July 5. Claims will be submitted
directly to Headquarters. (7/5/04)
b. International First Vice-President $7,000.00 plus one-way travel expenses to Board of
Trustee meetings, other than those above, based on a budget submitted to the Treasurer
prior to July 1, for approval of the Executive Committee on or before July 5. Claims will
be submitted directly to Headquarters. (7/5/04)
c. International Second Vice-President $6,700.00 plus one-way travel expenses to Board of
Trustee meetings, other than those above, based on a budget submitted to the Treasurer
prior to July 1, for approval of the Executive Committee on or before July 5. Claims will
be submitted directly to Headquarters. (7/5/04)
d. International Third Vice President $6,500.00 plus one-way travel expenses to Board of
Trustee meetings other than those above, based on a budget submitted to the Treasurer
prior to July 1, for approval of the Executive Committee on or before July 5. Claims will
be submitted directly to Headquarters. (7/5/04)
e. International Treasurer $3,300.00 plus traveling expenses to and from Board of Trustees
meeting, other than those above, based on a budget submitted to the Treasurer prior to July
1, for approval at the Executive Committee Meeting on or before July 5. Claims will be
submitted directly to Headquarters. (7/5/04)
Recording Secretary $3,300.00 plus traveling expenses to and from Board of Trustees
meeting, other than those above, based on a budget submitted to the Treasurer prior to July
1, for approval at the Executive Committee Meeting on or before July 5. Claims will be
submitted directly to Headquarters. (7/5/04)
g. Immediate Past President $900.00 plus traveling expenses to and from Board of Trustees
meeting, other than those above, based on a budget submitted to the Treasurer prior to July
1, for approval at the Executive Committee Meeting on or before July 5. Claims will be
submitted directly to Headquarters. (7/5/04)
h. Region President $1,400.00. In addition, Regional Presidents shall receive reimbursement
for traveling expenses on a variable allotment of $40.00 for each Unit in the Region and for
traveling expenses to and from the IBT meeting, other than those above, on the basis of a
submitted budget to the Treasurer prior to July 1 for approval at the Executive Committee
meeting on or before July 5. Claims will be submitted directly to Headquarters. (7/5/04)
i. Region Vice Presidents $725.00. In addition, Region Vice Presidents shall receive
reimbursement for traveling expenses on a variable allotment of $20.00 for each unit in the region."
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