Flying Cloud FB25 or FB27

[ToddD]

Good morning,

We currently have 22FB Caravel. We are looking to move up to FC25FB or FC 27FB. The main reason is for the tandem axles and extra width. We like the layout and also the option for the twin beds and rear hatch. When looking at specs I noticed weights were similar and the 27 had slight less hitch weight.

FC25FB- Hitch weight 875, Unit Base weight 5600, maximum trailer capacity 7300, Net carrying capacity 1700.

FC27FB Hitch weight 850, Unit Base weight 6100, maximum trailer capacity 7600, Net carrying capacity 1500.

We have a 2022 Tundra Platinum 3.L V6 so hitch weight was a concern after reading all the post about 1/2 ton pulling AS 25.

Thanks in advance.
Todd

[Bobbo]

Either trailer will suit you just fine. More room is better than less room unless you have tight spaces you are trying to get into.

I know this is not your question, but keep in mind that Airstream vastly under reports the tongue weights on their trailers. Figure that the real tongue weight will be about 1.5 times what the brochure claims. Your Tundra will have insufficient payload for either of these trailers. (Look at the driver's door pillar for the sticker that says how much payload your Tundra has. Subtract from that number the driver's weight, all passengers weights, and anything you or the dealer added to the Tundra, like a topper. And, anything you carry in the truck when camping, like bicycles, grills, or whatever gets subtracted too.)

[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by ToddD

Good morning,

We currently have 22FB Caravel. We are looking to move up to FC25FB or FC 27FB. The main reason is for the tandem axles and extra width. We like the layout and also the option for the twin beds and rear hatch. When looking at specs I noticed weights were similar and the 27 had slight less hitch weight.

FC25FB- Hitch weight 875, Unit Base weight 5600, maximum trailer capacity 7300, Net carrying capacity 1700.

FC27FB Hitch weight 850, Unit Base weight 6100, maximum trailer capacity 7600, Net carrying capacity 1500.

We have a 2022 Tundra Platinum 3.L V6 so hitch weight was a concern after reading all the post about 1/2 ton pulling AS 25.

Thanks in advance.
Todd

Agree with what Bobbo says above...
Depending on your Tundra "max payload" found on the sticker on the drivers door, you may or may not have enough "payload" to handle the tongue weight with passengers and cargo... Toyota's and RAMs are nortorious for low payload, but you might be one of the lucky ones with at least 1800#+ rating? The 25' and/or 27' tongue weight (actual) likely will come in 900-1100lbs with full propane and water and your gear inside the AS. I can not comment on the V6 vs the V8. Fine truck; just think the V8 is what most folks here with Tundra's here towing AS's have. F150 6Cylinder Echoboost is the predominant 6 we see; it is a beast for sure...

Any AS can be towed by just about any vehicle...towing is not the concern...it's being within the overall spec's of your vehicle...you don't want to modify beyond original specs, IMHO.

[Piggy Bank]

I can chime in from experience here.
Our first AS was a 2015 22 Sport. We drove that with a 2014 Tundra 5.7L V8-stickered payload was 1335 pounds.

So we had the bigger engine, and the older iteration of the Tundra with the smaller gas tank and therefore higher payload than the current version.

Traded AS to a 2017 Rear Bed 25 FC twin. Felt like the Tundra towed that fine, but we were super careful about payloads. If our adult kids came along we drove 2 vehicles.
When that AS was damaged in an accident we traded to a 2019 FC 27 foot front bed twin.

Now we were really at the limit of payload, and were even more careful about loading. But during travel including mountain descents we always felt in control. We however did not have any extra ummmph to quickly accelerate when towing to avoid any potential incidents-animals on the road, other vehicles, etc.

Then our Tundra had an oil leak at the cam seal.

(We have no way of knowing if the leak had anything to do with towing at the edge of capacity. It is apparently a known issue)

We traded vs repair, and got into a F150. Not over on payload, but were very unhappy with how that setup performed towing in the mountains. We are trading to an F250 diesel.

I say this to let you know that you are fooling yourself if you think that "oh it will be fine, we can go slow on the hills, it's only a couple of hours that we are underpowered." The lack of ability to have a little power and control when you need it are never a good plan.

If you plan to get into a 25 or 27 you should also plan on a new tow vehicle. If you are against a new tow vehicle then my advice would be to look at a 23 foot AS for a tandem axel model.

[jeffmc306]

I think Piggy Bank’s well-written post sums it up for a lot of us. If you try and make the tow vehicle work when it’s questionable, you’ll be disappointed.

Back to your 25 or 27 question, we started with a FC23FB but discovered after one season we didn’t care for the East-West queen or the U-shaped dinette. We considered a 25’ but after looking at the additional space of a 27’ in the galley, the larger pantry and microwave in the drawer (wanted the gas oven) the decision was easier. There’s also more room at the end of the twin beds.

There’s a saying on the Forum “Buy your second Airstream first.” We didn’t and it was an expensive learning experience. And yes, we tried a 1/2 ton truck before getting our RAM 2500 6.4 gas. No more payload anxiety and plenty of power to two anything AS sells today…

Good luck with your search!

[Aluminium Falcon]

Last year, I switched my order form a Caravel 22FB to a Flying Cloud 25FBQ. At the time, I debated whether to move up to a 27FB. After one season of camping, I have absolutely no regret with my decision to opt for the 25FB. On two occasions, we were able to fit on a campsite that would not have accommodated the 27FB. The 25FB is essentially a more compact version of the 27FB. It suits our style of camping perfectly. I would only consider moving up to a 27FB if I would remain in the same camping spot for an extended period of time and wanted a bit more interior space. My wife and I are really not fans of the twin beds. For us, sleeping in seperate beds was a non-starter. We much prefer the queen bed and do not understand why it is getting such bad reviews on this forum. I have towed the 25FB with a Ram 1500 and Durango R/T Tow N Go without any issue. The Durango TNG is actually the superior tow vehicle. I believe both vehicles could just as easily tow the 27FB.

[OrangeCrush]

We have a 25 and debated 27 but did not want the extra length. We love our 25 but we are queen bed people and really wish we had the bed setup in the 27. Other than that we do not feel the need for a 27. I would say if you are going twin either but if you like a queen the bed in the 27 would be better. As far as TV, I can't speak to the 27 but our 1/2 ton F150 with the gear we like to take (bikes, kayak, paddle board, grill, etc) was overloaded so we went up to a 3/4 ton. Good luck with your decision.

[s1000pre]

Originally Posted by OrangeCrush

We have a 25 and debated 27 but did not want the extra length. We love our 25 but we are queen bed people and really wish we had the bed setup in the 27. Other than that we do not feel the need for a 27. I would say if you are going twin either but if you like a queen the bed in the 27 would be better. As far as TV, I can't speak to the 27 but our 1/2 ton F150 with the gear we like to take (bikes, kayak, paddle board, grill, etc) was overloaded so we went up to a 3/4 ton. Good luck with your decision.

Yup, I second this. Twin beds in a 25 should be fine, forget about walking on the far side of the queen. The 27’s doubled size closet would be nice though not worth the length. There are more spots available today for a 25’er. Size matters when navigating a tight spot.

[ToddD]

Thanks for all the advice on the 25FB and 27FB. The point about the length and camping spots I did not think of but should have since with a 22FB we have been limited in some campgrounds. I live in the city and not sure I want to go up to 3/4 ton truck at this time. We liked the twin because we are not big fan of the east west bed in the Caravel 22FB but at least in the Flying Cloud you do not have to climb over the wife to get out of bed.

Thanks

[Gibson3798]

After owning a 25'RB FC, and now owning a 28' INT. with twin beds, I'd never own a FB or RB, only twins. It adds another 3-4' of trailer and is remarkably comfortable.

Also, I pulled the 25' FC with a Tundra and it wasn't enough truck to challenge the Rockies with the 25', IMO. Got pushed around some in our Smoky Mtns., so there was no question when considering the 28' trailer.

Tundra is a great truck but its limited.

[moosetags]

We are somewhat experienced Airstreamers. We have just topped 2,200 nights of Airstream camping over the last sixteen years. We have had a 23FB and two 25FBs. We have had both the queen and twin set-ups in our 25FBs. We liked the queen bed, but we find the twins more comfortable and easier to navigate. The twin beds provide a place to get dressed in the bedroom.

Each time that we replaced Lucy (that's what we have called all of our Airstreams) we considered going to a 27FB. We decided to stick with the 25 as we felt that the 27 was just not worth the extra 2'1" of length. If we had a 27, we would just carry two feet more junk that we don't really need.

Brian

[Bobbo]

Originally Posted by ToddD

Thanks for all the advice on the 25FB and 27FB. The point about the length and camping spots I did not think of but should have since with a 22FB we have been limited in some campgrounds. I live in the city and not sure I want to go up to 3/4 ton truck at this time. We liked the twin because we are not big fan of the east west bed in the Caravel 22FB but at least in the Flying Cloud you do not have to climb over the wife to get out of bed.

Thanks

I hate to say this, but if you're not ready for a 3/4 ton truck, you really aren't ready to upsize your Airstream.

[gypsydad]

All good points from experienced AS and Tow Vehicle owners who have "been there, done that!

Twins vs queen: twin configuration gives you more room to move around, change, and easier making bed, more storage outside (2 additional compartments), more storage inside- easier to get to with 2 compartments under each bed, and in the 28' you have 2 additional closets at the foot of the beds. More actual sleeping surface 34" each vs 60" total with a queen. Snuggling still happens in twins or upfront with on the couch...(we have a 28')

25' vs 27' vs 28'- we have owned 3 different model/year 25's prior to getting our 28'. What drove us to the 28' was wife's desire for more storage and room inside to move around. We did not like the 25' and 27' layout with the long lounge for watching TV our socializing vs the L-couch and separate dinette with the 28'. We opted for the FC model 28' over the International model because of the 2 extra storage bins above the dinette. The International model has 2 elongated windows vs the storage cabinets. The 2 extra elongated windows look nice, but in reality, with awning out, they are not as functional/practical as 2 more storage cabinets, IMHO.

Tow vehicle learning lesson: comment above about buying your second AS first is a good one...same goes for TV's. Get something that you know will provide good towing control, enough payload for your AS, passengers, and your cargo. 3/4T or 1T for 25'+ length and you are likely going to be happy. Get something smaller and it can ruin your overall experience.

[Doc Foster]

I moved up from a 25' Flying Cloud to a 30' International and had a V8 Tundra. The Tundra can pull it easily (not sure about the V6?), but stopping and negotiating mountain grades was a whole different story. After one cross country trip with the Tundra, I quickly traded in for a F250. When I do it over again, I will get a F350 for the extra payload. Look at the sticker on your Tundra and carefully check the payload. I would guess that once you have passengers and cargo in the truck + you hitch and tongue weight you will be close to or over the capacity of your truck. That stuff you put in the bed of your truck can add up quick (I have a grill, generators, hiking gear, camp chairs & table, large tool kit, air compressor, recovery kit for fourwheeling, etc., so my 6.5' bed is packed) I have a diesel and can come down the steepest grades with the diesel brake and downshifting without even touching the brake pedal. With heavier truck / diesel I barely notice the trailer back there. I know people report much higher tongue weights than what Airstream claims, but the manual states my tongue weight should be 880 pounds (with propane, but WITHOUT options, water & cargo). The last time I checked with my tongue scale it was 915 pound with options, water and cargo, so not that far off. I have measure as high as 950 pounds fully loaded for a month long trip, so about 8% over Airstream figures. So you do have to figure for a bit more than what Airstream quotes in their literature.

[AgBullet]

An obvious suggestion is to spend some time at a dealership in both the 25 and 27. We've owned both, and like the room and sleeping arrangement of a N/S queen the best...the FC27Q really suits us. For TV, you'll get a lot of advice...we towed both our 25 and 27 with an F-150 3.5EB, but settled on an F-250 diesel. The F-150 worked, just not enough margin. Anyhow, what a fun problem to have, deciding! Wish you luck in your quest.

[Turbulence]

I went from a FC 23FB w/ Blue Ox to a FC 27FBT w/ ProPride with the same tow vehicle - 2020 F150 XLT with max tow - 1775 payload.

The 23FB w/ Blue Ox really wasn't great for towing. At times it seemed perfect - but when it got windy - I had to hold on. I figured it just needed more weight up front - but even with a full tank of water AND 60lbs of dumbells in the front - would still only get it to 625 lbs (measured with Sherline scale).

With the 27FBT w/ ProPride - I feel the wind a bit - but it doesn't seem much different then just driving the truck with high wind. On at least one occasion - I didn't know the wind was that bad until I got to my campsite and got out of the truck. The highest tongue weight I've measured is 925 will full water and ProPride attached - though I usually only go with about 25% water for toilet flushing.

While I do have the itch for a 3/4 ton truck - the current pairing is very stable. If my wife felt unsafe - she would be forcing me to the 3/4 ton - but she isn't and really wonders if it's worth the expense to upgrade - especially with the current vehicle market. In all we are weekend warriors - if that changes maybe that helps us make the decision.

As far as layout goes - I think I would have been happier with the 28RBT because of the couch area - but when we got this one - there has hardly anything around to either look at or purchase.

Thanks,
Scotty

[ToddD]

Originally Posted by AgBullet

An obvious suggestion is to spend some time at a dealership in both the 25 and 27. We've owned both, and like the room and sleeping arrangement of a N/S queen the best...the FC27Q really suits us. For TV, you'll get a lot of advice...we towed both our 25 and 27 with an F-150 3.5EB, but settled on an F-250 diesel. The F-150 worked, just not enough margin. Anyhow, what a fun problem to have, deciding! Wish you luck in your quest.

We were at the Atlanta RV show this weekend and I spoke to both the Airstream and The Southland RV sales reps both of them said the 2022 Tundra would not have any issue pulling the 25 or 27 but I also know they are in sales 😉

[MetalMissile]

I went through stages of upgrading like Piggy Bank, starting with 24' then 26' (non-airstreams) and was pushing the limits of the TV...then splurged for 27FB and F250 and life is a dream.
I was frustrated with the need to plod up steep grades at 40 mph in the RH lane and now stay comfortably at the speed limit regardless of the steepness of the hill. the exhaust brake downhill on the F250 also eliminates the need for braking for the most part. Again, peace of mind, ample capacity, safety, and yes, the diesel is premium priced but "made for the task".
I was never comfortable with 1/2 ton truck combined with larger trailers, I was always pushing it for braking and climbing steep grades, although I have a neighbor with F-150 T-V-6 and 25FB and he is delighted. My F250 turbodiesel and the 27FB are a dreamy balance and I can fill the truck with people and chock full the truck bed with luggage and stuff, and get 17-20 MPG all day long. I also have the capacity for bikes and motorcycle to be added, when desirable.
Best

Silver Missile

[AgBullet]

Originally Posted by ToddD

We were at the Atlanta RV show this weekend and I spoke to both the Airstream and The Southland RV sales reps both of them said the 2022 Tundra would not have any issue pulling the 25 or 27 but I also know they are in sales 😉

Yep, they are in sales...however I think they are essentially correct, the 25 and 27 can be pulled with a Tundra. Our neighbor three houses down has the same rig we do (FC27Q), and pulls with a Tundra. As others will attest, though, there isn't a whole lot of payload margin, and we found the 3/4 ton experience a little nicer.

[Life is a Highway]

I would stay with the 25 or move to a 28 or 30. We had a 25, I towed nice looked sharp but I could not stand sitting at that lousy Dinette layout.

Wife was Happy stretching out at night I was cramped and got tired of the table down table up remove the back pillows etc etc. Trailer looked great on the show room floor but failed us from day one on comfort at night- I was not going to neuter the original design layout for resale so we sold it. The 30 we really like but we could have been Ok in the 28-