Do 30' or 33' Classics Limit Camping

[Manning G]

Rented tonight. Ricky and Lucy were great! Thanks.

[3wd67rg]

Originally Posted by Adventure.AS

For example, my 25' AS combined with the tow vehicle is 40 feet, so my rig will only fit in 53% of National Parks Campgrouns. YMMV

From Jim at Camperreport:

"All of the numbers included here are the COMBINED lengths of the tow vehicle and the trailer/fifth wheel, or the motorhome and the towed vehicle. So you need to add the length of the RV and the vehicle together.

Also, keep in mind that RV companies often fudge the numbers on the length of their RVs. Get out a tape measure and actually measure your RV to know–it’s probably longer than what the manufacturer advertised.

Here are the averages:

• RVs up to 12′ in length fit in every national park campground in the United States, although there are a few campgrounds that don’t allow RVs at all and are tent only.
• RVs up to 19′ in length fit in 98% of all national park service campgrounds.
• RVs up to 25′ in length fit in 93% of all national park campgrounds
• RVs up to 29′ in length fit in 84% of all national park campgrounds
• RVs up to 32′ in length fit in 81% of all national park campgrounds
• RVs up to 35′ in length fit in 73% of all national park campgrounds
• RVs up to 37′ in length fit in 60% of all national park campgrounds
• RVs up to 40′ in length fit in 53% of all national park campgrounds (Remember that many of the parks will only have a few sites this size, however. Book long in advance if reservations are available–otherwise you run the risk of not having a spot)
• RVs up to 41′ in length fit in 7% of all national park campgrounds (Remember that many of the parks will only have a few sites this size, however. Book long in advance if reservations are available–otherwise you run the risk of not having a spot)"

Note: This is a summary of the combined rig lengths that will be able to use National Parks. The percentages are NOT the percentage of sites per park that may be available, e.g. a particular park may only have a handful of sites that will accommodate the longer rigs.

You are mistaken, these measured lengths do not include tow or toad vehicles. I know because we have parked our 1988 325 Classic Airstream Moho in National and State Parks. The driveway length is the length of the camping vehicle, and there are two parking spots, so one is for the tow or toad.

Reading the article WITH comments gives you more information, going to National/State Parks website is better, camping experience is best. I tried to use the link in this comment, unfortunately it’s broken.

[3wd67rg]

The link I was speaking of may work on a computer, but it won’t work on a phone, you are only able to see half a page. I am in the middle of packing for our own trip, but taking a break so decided to have a go at it again. I decided to copy the Q&A as the quickest solution, Recreation.gov answers the question.

https://support.recreation.gov/artic...s-and-Policies

Q. Does the vehicle length include the trailer and the tow vehicle?
A. The vehicle length listed on the website is only the length of the actual camping vehicle. It does not include the tow vehicle.

[3wd67rg]

Originally Posted by nomadleslie

Not to get off topic, but is this the app you’re referring to?
Attachment 312545

We have All Stays, and Chris aka morlach, has a few others besides. Please Keep in mind any app like this is only as good as the people who use and update the information and conditions of each campsite and rest area, (you need to be one of those updaters as well). Nothing is worse than pulling into a hellhole when you had been looking forward to a paradise as described by someone else. Or a planned rest stop that no one updated as closed, or passing a SURPRISE! open rest stop that had been listed as closed, and then there is no place to turn around.

So, don’t believe you can rest on these apps entirely. Not enough people post site updates.

[3wd67rg]

Originally Posted by GM Airstream

Hmmm well lets see according to the RV industry stats you reside in the coach lounge area amost 46.2% of the time.. you spend only 7.5% of your time in the bathroom and 37% of your time in the bedroom. You spend 5.9% of the time in the kitchen area... and the rest is probably outside .

I draw your attention to the % of time in the bathroom vs Kitchen... interesting... ahhh yes what goes in has to come out sometime... but it takes 1.6% more time.... ahhh well ok... some do have reading material associated with it...
I am sure that some mates can expand that 7.5% percentage expedientally by 150% making the whole issue pointless...happy wife.. happy life.. kinda thing...

Seems to me your most comfortable in either place...

Excellent assessment GM Airstream, but might I add to it? Of course I’m going to anyway since you’re not here to answer. I will apologize in advance if you find this not to your liking.

How much time spent indoors in the coach/lounge area looking out at the magnificent view will vary per person.

Before I was broken we would park at the camp and spend our time hiking, fishing, and kayaking. Trailriding our bikes, and backpacking were part of the plan, but I broke my back after a year. After two spinal procedures this month I am very much hoping to get back to at least hiking, fishing, and kayaking. For people who DO the outdoors, a view is nice but unnecessary since it’s near dark when they do come indoors.

On the flip side the view was EVERYTHING to me when I was laid up, so I totally understand these people as well.

But onto a subject so often spoken of, Bathrooms and why they figure so much, into the well being of so many, (but not all), women. I never guessed I would be one.

The WORST AIRSTREAM BATHROOM EVER, tmk, (1988 325 Classic AS Moho). It’s probably not your year/make/model, but this will give the MEN here a rough idea of how a tiny and/or lousy bathroom can affect a woman; (keep in mind that I am NOT a girly woman, but I can approximate the look if nothing else, when necessary).

Our bathroom is miniscule, i HATE it. I absolutely HATE HATE HATE it!!! With a passion! Why? Many reasons.

I’m only 130lbs but the bathroom feels like a coffin. If it did not have a window I would assume I was indeed dead and assume the position, IF I actually could. There is simply not enough space to do so. The space for throne sitting jams my knees together so I have to leave the door open in order to, ahhh... accomplish some, ummm.... cleaning type functions... ‘nuff said.

The Toilet- it is so high my feet dangle like Lilly Tomlinson on her big rocking chair. “And that’s the truth! thbbbbpt”, I’m 5’5”; believe it or not the height is a problem for both of us, he’s 5’11”. We have to store a short folding stepstool on the side in order to use the toilet.

The Sink Counter- it’s much too short. Not a big deal you think? When bending is excruciating it is. Bend over and hold that position long enough to wash your hands, wash your face, brush your teeth x number of times a day for the 4 to 6 month long trips we take... Even someone with a strong healthy back will have a problem.

The Bathroom Lighting- it REALLY Sucks. Whoever thought to place lights on the sides of a mirror, in a very tiny room, was obviously a man. It’s impossible to see your face for the glare. Placing a vanity mirror over a toilet, ALSO conceived by a man. Seriously, were the men at Airstream wringing their tiny hands and laughing Maniacally when they thought these up?! Picture yourself bending over a too tall toilet, feeling your spine may explode out your tail end at any second, while trying to see yourself in a vanity mirror with such poor lighting that you can’t be certain whether that bump thing stuck to your head is a tick or not. Needless to say on the one or two occasions I might wear make up, the vanity mirror is useless. The Mirror on the opposite wall, has no lighting. *facepalm* The full length mirror on the bathroom door is unusable in the bathroom because I can’t stand any further than 8 inches away from it. If I open the bathroom door up and stand in the hallway between the bathroom and bedroom to use the full length mirror, there is no lighting in the hall due to the Air Conditioning Unit directly overhead. Am I vain? I am almost 58, I’d rather look 40 when I walk out the door, but I’ll take 50 and be happy.

The Bathroom Sink- too tiny, the Faucet too short, doesn’t articulate- you can’t get your face down in the sink to splash water on it, the sink is too tiny and the faucet is directly in the way. Tbh, worse for him than me as he shaves there. Now that a leak flooded the cabinet and the roll doors had to be tossed, perhaps this will all be fixed? I know it’s priority is moved up.

No Bathtub- this is only a problem for fulltimers or those who live in their Airstreams for extended trips. I never would have thought it would be a problem for me. Six years ago I moved into a tiny house with only a shower, it didn’t bother me at all until I was about two years into my home and then I thought about it, all the time. During our second Airstream trip, a six month trip, I began craving long tub soaks. When we got HOME Chris bought me a plastic feed trough and fashioned a tub out of it. He attached a bit of pvc piping, that a hose could be attached to, I fill from the sink with the hose, and at the end, empty the tub into the shower. It just barely fit in our tiny house bathroom, but OMG to sit to up to your chest in warm bubblly scented water... I cried the first time I was so happy. I had been over four years without a tub soak. Yes. Women are emotional. Deal with it.

Well I’m sure I could add more, but I should have gotten back to packing an hour or two ago. This is what a brain for writing does to you.

[nomadleslie]

Originally Posted by PammieSue

We have All Stays, and Chris aka morlach, has a few others besides. Please Keep in mind any app like this is only as good as the people who use and update the information and conditions of each campsite and rest area, (you need to be one of those updaters as well). Nothing is worse than pulling into a hellhole when you had been looking forward to a paradise as described by someone else. Or a planned rest stop that no one updated as closed, or passing a SURPRISE! open rest stop that had been listed as closed, and then there is no place to turn around.



So, don’t believe you can rest on these apps entirely. Not enough people post site updates.

All very true & thank you for the reminders. We did, however, find a little gem of a place in Longview, TX, last night using the app. No frills, place. Just clean, quiet, with levels spots. The kids were psyched about the (very small) pool, so that was a bonus. We definitely would not have found it without the app, so I’m already grateful for it.

I’m not much of a reviewer, but will most certainly review every place we find with this app, especially, as you mentioned, there aren’t enough reviewers on this app.

[RedSHED]

Originally Posted by D88PSU

Hello all... I have been a forum observer/learner for a while. My wife and I are dreaming/planning on jumping into a Classic and TV in the next couple years. We are at odds over the 30 or 33.. she likes the bathroom in the 33... I like the panoramic view from the 30... but that is another thread...

I am wondering if any of you have found that that the overall length of the trailer+TV has been an issue with accessing places you want to camp.

I have read threads where people have gone from a shorter AS to a 30 or 33. I do not recall people going from 30 or 33 to a shorter one.

Any thoughts/comments would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Drew

No trailer
No TV
Lots of dreams

We did.

Went from 30' to 16' in large part because of the availability of spaces. Four of us (between 5'6" and 5'10 at the time) went from near Indy to Bar Harbor and back a couple years ago and to New Mexico and Colorado last summer. It is sufficient. Gobs easier to live with on a daily basis.



But if you can be OK with the other compromises, more fuel, bigger tow vehicle, etc. that's fine too.



Just wanted to offer a different point of view :-)

[Manning G]

Quote:
Originally Posted by GM Airstream View Post
Hmmm well lets see according to the RV industry stats you reside in the coach lounge area amost 46.2% of the time.. you spend only 7.5% of your time in the bathroom and 37% of your time in the bedroom. You spend 5.9% of the time in the kitchen area... and the rest is probably outside .

Maybe I just fortunate but I don't spend 7.5% of my time in the bathroom.
7.5% of 24 hours is 1.8 hours!!!!!

[3wd67rg]

Originally Posted by nomadleslie

All very true & thank you for the reminders. We did, however, find a little gem of a place in Longview, TX, last night using the app. No frills, place. Just clean, quiet, with levels spots. The kids were psyched about the (very small) pool, so that was a bonus. We definitely would not have found it without the app, so I’m already grateful for it.

I’m not much of a reviewer, but will most certainly review every place we find with this app, especially, as you mentioned, there aren’t enough reviewers on this app.

Leslie, I also keep the All Stays app because I would miss the good places. Writing a good review is a learned process, you’ll get the hang of it. 🙂 When you read reviews written by other people, take note of what you find/found to be useful information both before and after you arrive at your destination. Happy trails. 😊

[Manning G]

19 a day is 19 TOO MANY
Sugar??

[Andy R]

Just a quick FYI - www.campgroundreviews.com is a sister site to this here AIRForums.com. Multiple folks who work on it are Airstreamers. We get thousands of reviews and probably one of the only sites that have enough depth in recent reviews to really, we have better data.

RV Park Reviews will be launching a new app this summer.

[kendrick.l.j]

Manning....it’s a reference to how many Vets are dying each day while waiting to be seen at the VA. Even they don’t know.

[Masondood]

We bought a 30' Serenity last year and began towing it with a Ram 1500, but found the mountains a strain for the truck. We traded up to a new F350 diesel and spent the winter travelling all over Arizona for our first year of retirement (and our first time towing a trailer).

Never had an issue with size at any of the commercial parks. As one poster stated, with no slideouts the AS can fit almost any spot as long as it's long enough. We also stayed at a park in Coeur D'Alene Idaho and haven't had any issues at a couple of differing space we stayed there.

We both feel the 30' is great for us and we're ecstatic with the choice.

Welcome to the forums and hope this information is of good use!

Michael

[85MH325]

Originally Posted by D88PSU

I have to admit I am overwhelmed with all the constructive feedback to my first posting on the forum. All the posts are written as if I were having a very pleasant conversation with my next door neighbor.

I appreciate the feedback.

In summary I think we will be fine with either the 30' or 33' Classic. I do not see us venturing far off the path of National Parks, festivals, etc...

Being willing to pass on a site is excellent advice.

In short it seems long will be ok...

Thanks again to all. And I am very impressed with the willingness to share advice.

Drew

No Trailer
No TV
Lots of Dreams

Hi Drew! Welcome to the forums... I'm an old timer. We towed Airstreams for over twenty years, but I've since moved on. Back in the late '80s I lived in a 1970 Safari Special 23' single-axle for a year. I have owned a '61 Bambi 16' that I towed with an Astro van, and a 34' two-door tri-axle that I towed with a 19' Excursion. the 34' was WONDERFUL when it was parked. Plenty of space... although it did kind of seem like I was in a bowling alley lane or a tunnel sometimes.

I will tell you that over-all length absolutely matters. I went to an informal Forums rally at Indiana Dunes state beach years ago with the 34' tri-axle and Excursion and had a hell of a time getting the rig backed into a site designed for a 25' trailer. I did it, but it wasn't easy. Mississippi Palisades State Park in Illinois would have been fine, except that the sites were SO un-level that I couldn't get the trailer level because of the front and rear overhangs.

The rig was SO long I had to go around the block with three lefts to make a right from the eastbound highway to the northbound highway in the town where I live. Because of the intersection design, I couldn't just make a right with the 34' tri-axle.

There are many gas stations that are just off-limits to a 54' long rig. It takes planning to travel, and if you're a spur-of-the-moment weekend camper, the hassle of taking a 30-33' trailer may cramp your style.

My forty years of camping has come to dictate that 23-25' of living space is just about perfect, be it travel trailer or motorhome. It's big enough to be comfortable but small enough to be easily moved when you want to go somewhere else. Generally speaking, that will put you in the 40-45' over-all length range which can get in and out of most gas stations, campgrounds, and tight spots pretty easily.

So... lots of folks love their 30-34' trailers... but the 25-27' footers are where it's at for me. If, in the unlikely event I ever go with another Airstream, it'll be in that size range.

Best of luck figuring out what you want!

Roger

[Deeno]

I pull a 28' AS with a GMC crew cab/5 foot bed. Always need to be careful when navigating crowded gas stations. One campground on our last trip gave me a scare. We were in a "pull-through" at a KOA site, and when I started pulling out in the morning, I am thankful I looked in the correct mirror at the correct time. My turn radius was too short for the site, and I was about to see which would move first, the waterpipe poking up from the ground, or the aluminum siding of the trailer. l was able to "wiggle" the rig sideways and find the turn point to avoid contact, but it was an unexpected challenge. Morale of the story: the longer the wheelbase of the TV, and the longer the distance between TV rear wheels and trailer wheels, the wider the radius needed to maneuver. Also, when making tight turns, the "swing" of the rear of the trailer body.
I've decided we'll not go larger, and may go down to make travel to the smaller
sites easier.

[AronS]

Originally Posted by jeffweidler

We're in California and almost all dry camps for the State and Federal have a difficult time with over 25 feet.

We're in Northern California and that was exactly the reasoning for us going with the 25 FB. We do lots of state and NP campgrounds and the options are considerably greater with a max of "25" feet (I believe my AS is 25'11" technically). Commercial campgrounds have more space but for the time being that's not our preference. Once we get to Oregon and Idaho most of those campgrounds are far more accommodating. Most of the time the size is not an issue for us as we and our 2 daughters spend most of our time outside while camping but sometimes it feels a little tight (getting ready for bed).

[DC Bruce]

Having never done any RV’ing, my wife and I decided to buy an Airstream for a planned “grand tour” upon my retirement in 2015. After a few weekend trips to the Blue Ridge, we headed west as full timers in October. Having done a ton of research about trailer lengths in National Parks, we looke ar 27s and 30s at Colonial Airstream in New Jersey. The extra 3 feet did not translate into a whole lot more usable space: bigger closet and shower and a bit of extra living space. Only the 27s had a propane oven; the larger ones just had a microwave. Not wanting to be heavily tied to shorepower or a generator, that was a plus. Bottom line: we spent 10 months full time in the 27 FB and never felt it was too small—and we’re big people: 6’3” and 5’9”. We also had a 95 lb. Golden Retriever with us. There were some campgrounds where we were glad not to be any bigger: Kings Canyon NP. There were several fantastic campgrounds on the PCH that would have been off limits had we been any longer: likewise the spectacular Kings Range BLM campground on the Northern California coast. This is not about “regulations”; this is about practical limits imposed by size. Admittedly, we were about “pushing it” into remote areas. If that’s not your goal, then maybe you’ll want longer. Honestly, the longer Airstreams didn’t seem to justify the higher prices and increased size. And, with a 10,000 lb. GVWR classic, we probably would have had to step up to a bigger, clumsier 3/4 ton rather than the 1/2 ton we used. 420 hp/460 lb.-ft of torque and an 8-speed transmission was just fine pulling our 7600 lb. GVWR FC27 all over the West.

[azgoblue]

Many forest service or np campgrounds were built by the ccc long before the days of big rigs. Length restrictions for the trailer at 27 ft or somtimes less is fairly common. Most have leveling issues as well. Not much room for slide outs either. Most commercial campgrounds and rv parks/resorts are not an issue. New issue gaining strength is the age factor. Losts of popular places are instituting 10 year old limits regardless of condition of rig.

[chris1953]

Last year we bought a 2011 Classic 34; it's fabulous! The triple axle makes towing it a breeze. Curiously the 33' has only a double axle; they should change that.
Extra room is better than not. We've had no trouble at all finding camping spots. That said, we may in the future , but it likely won't happen enough to make you wish you were in a 30'.

[switz]

Part of the length conversation confusion:

Airstream measures their length from the front of the lip on the tow ball socket to the back of the rear bumper. A careful perusal of the "A" frame in front and the bumper in the rear and one realizes the actual livable space could be at least 3.5' less.

So the other brands measure the length of the living space, not the "A" frame or rear bumper overhang.

So our 2015 23D International Serenity is about 23' in Airstream speak but less than 20' for comparison to the others. Our 2014 Classic is 31' long in Airstream speak but has livable space a little over 27'.

So if a park has size limitations, I can use livable space of either Airstream for fitment purposes.

We like our Classic for longer trips and our 23D for weekender trips and rallys.

Our Classic scales 9,200 pounds camping loaded while the 23D scales 6,069 pounds camping loaded. We tow the Classic with a 2012 Ram 2500HD Cummins and the 23D with my 2007 Mercedes ML320 CDI that has a 3.0L turbo diesel. The Classic has 900 watts of solar panels and a 600 amp-hour lithium battery while the 23D has 500 watts of solar and a 300 amp-hour lithium battery.

Lots of options to consider: off grid in remote area capability, always in a commercial park with all services, or something in between.

We started with a 2013 25FB International Serenity and it just did not work for us with the cross frame queen bed and dinette seating and we went to the Classic and never looked back. We have spent the last two summers for five months on our 8,000 square foot lot in the Arizona White Mountains at Ponderosa Shadows in Lakeside, AZ at 6,900 feet elevation. So the Classic is our summer cottage. We also take longer trips during the winter.

All the best in your decision making.