2017 Ford F250 and trailer sway ???

[Fair_Enough]

It would cost very little to eliminate hitch sloop / rattle. Several brands.
WW

https://www.etrailer.com/Hitch-Anti-...ne/MPG908.html

[AirMiles]

I did some more testing today. I moved down a hole on the Blue Ox Swaypro drawbar, pumped up the tires to 80 PSI all the way around, and took another test drive. (I think GypsyDad is running his Blue Ox in that same hole.) Its the lowest hole on the nine hole drawbar. My FC25FB is obviously nose low in this hole. This did not improve my towing experience. I then moved back up one hole (using 6th and 8th holes in drawbar) and tested again. Still not satisfied. I get push/pull from passing 18 wheelers and larger vehicles. The rig feels loose like I'm in a heavy wind even though its almost calm. The rig feels like its fighting the wear tracks in the road. It just is not a comfortable ride. I see no sway from the Airstream, its tracking as straight as it alway did before. We are having this same issue with both trucks (my son-in-law also has a 2019 F250 Lariat) and both trailers (he tows a 24' box trailer) both with Blue Ox Swaypros. Both trailers towed perfectly with our prior trucks.

I have 30,000 miles of experience with my FC25FB and its Blue OX hitch. Once I got it dialed in with the Titans, I NEVER felt a bobble. With gail force winds in NM and TX where the semi's were dog-tracking, I had to look at the trees and flags to see if it was still windy. I couldn't feel a bobble in my truck at Interstate highway speeds. The hitch height on my Titan XD was 21" off the ground, exactly the same as the F250. Therefore, the exact same hitch settings should produce the exact same Airstream towing results. But it doesn't????

I'm running out of things to try. I've changed the Blue OX hitch in every manner possible. Nose high, nose low, nose level, 1500# bars, 1000# bars, 80 PSI all the way down to 55 PSI in 5 PSI increments, more links, less links, no WDH, tightened the receiver slop and added a Ford OEM Stabilizer Bar. About the only thing left would be to buy a ProPride. If a used ProPride was available, I'd buy it to see if it would help. If it didn't help, I'd just resell it. I'm about to give up trying to improve my ride, but I'm afraid of how it will handle when I get into gale force winds in the plains.

My wife is deathly afraid of swaying trailers from past bad experiences we have had. She is uncomfortable riding in the F250 with it current loose feeling. I've told her it doesn't feel like I could loose control, but she doesn't like the loose and wandering feeling.

[majorairhead]

I have a '17 F250 CCSB 4x4 6.2 gasser, 4:30 rear, camper package, 3,111 pound cargo capacity.

70 psi front, 75 psi rear, as per door jamb spec.

Towing a '19 International 30 foot, Equalizer hitch

Runs straight and tight with no sway at all.

I have absolutely no issues at all. Reason I'm posting is this just doesn't make sense, what's going on here.

[jlandreth]

I have a '18 F250 CCSB 4x4 diesel and I'm pulling a '19 30' Classic. I do get a little sway/push from passing vehicles and I'm wondering if it's because my dealer used 800lb bars on my Reese Dual Cam WD hitch instead of the 1000lb bars that came with the hitch when they ordered it. Not sure if the lighter rated bars will cause sway issues.

[Pete B55]

Originally Posted by AirMiles

GypsyDad, I have to disagree with your comment. My 2019 F250 Diesel is not as good of towing platform as my 2017 Titan XD Diesel, 2016 Titan Diesel, 2011 F250 Diesel, or my 2012 F150 Eco-boost . . . I really can't believe this is possible. But if I could have test towed my FC25FB with my F250 before I bought it, I would not have bought it.



Now I have a $70,000 truck that I need to modify to improve its towing stability. I believe the F250 needs the rear stabilizer bar. I was not impressed with the stock shocks and the bump steer I had, but the rear stabilizer bar improved this. The truck wandered on the highway even without the Airstream and gets significantly worse with it. If several hundred dollars of add-ons will improve stability, I won't hesitate to install them.



Go do this test on an F250. Grab the hitch, without the Airstream attached, and push/pull sideways. The F250 will start swaying. Stop the push/pull action and watch the truck continue swaying for about three more revolutions! That is what is happening when you drive down the highway with this platform. Try the same maneuver on the front by grabbing the tow hooks . . . its even looser.



Others can disagree . . . but go try the push/pull test on an F250 and you will see what I am feeling while towing my Airstream with my F250.

I have a 2017 F250 Lariat and pull a 2017 classic. I’ve pulled ~ 15000 miles and it’s been very stable with the pro-pride. I tried the push/pull test as you described and did not have the response you described- not even close - the truck has virtually no lateral movement, or any movement for that matter. I think there is something wrong with your suspension .

[majorairhead]

Airmiles, have you made any suspension changes to your truck? Lifted? Leveled?

Plus, over on the ford forums there is discussion about causes of 'death wobble'.

There's talk about bad steering stablizers, worn axle side track bar joints, loose track bars, etc. You might not have a hitch or trailer issue, maybe a truck issue.

[SteveSueMac]

Originally Posted by AirMiles

I did some more testing today. I moved down a hole on the Blue Ox Swaypro drawbar, pumped up the tires to 80 PSI all the way around, and took another test drive. (I think GypsyDad is running his Blue Ox in that same hole.) Its the lowest hole on the nine hole drawbar. My FC25FB is obviously nose low in this hole. This did not improve my towing experience. I then moved back up one hole (using 6th and 8th holes in drawbar) and tested again. Still not satisfied. I get push/pull from passing 18 wheelers and larger vehicles. The rig feels loose like I'm in a heavy wind even though its almost calm. The rig feels like its fighting the wear tracks in the road. It just is not a comfortable ride. I see no sway from the Airstream, its tracking as straight as it alway did before. We are having this same issue with both trucks (my son-in-law also has a 2019 F250 Lariat) and both trailers (he tows a 24' box trailer) both with Blue Ox Swaypros. Both trailers towed perfectly with our prior trucks.

I have 30,000 miles of experience with my FC25FB and its Blue OX hitch. Once I got it dialed in with the Titans, I NEVER felt a bobble. With gail force winds in NM and TX where the semi's were dog-tracking, I had to look at the trees and flags to see if it was still windy. I couldn't feel a bobble in my truck at Interstate highway speeds. The hitch height on my Titan XD was 21" off the ground, exactly the same as the F250. Therefore, the exact same hitch settings should produce the exact same Airstream towing results. But it doesn't????

I'm running out of things to try. I've changed the Blue OX hitch in every manner possible. Nose high, nose low, nose level, 1500# bars, 1000# bars, 80 PSI all the way down to 55 PSI in 5 PSI increments, more links, less links, no WDH, tightened the receiver slop and added a Ford OEM Stabilizer Bar. About the only thing left would be to buy a ProPride. If a used ProPride was available, I'd buy it to see if it would help. If it didn't help, I'd just resell it. I'm about to give up trying to improve my ride, but I'm afraid of how it will handle when I get into gale force winds in the plains.

My wife is deathly afraid of swaying trailers from past bad experiences we have had. She is uncomfortable riding in the F250 with it current loose feeling. I've told her it doesn't feel like I could loose control, but she doesn't like the loose and wandering feeling.

Sounds frustrating. And totally understand your wife’s concerns.

Look - I’m a ProPride user and as much as I love it, it really sounds like something needs to be done with your overall rig for more stability. Would the PP work? Maybe - but if it does, is it hiding something you really need to correct? I’m not sure if that’s possible - it I guess my point is - you’re trying all the things that in theory should improve your experience and you’re not finding the magic puzzle pieces to really dial it in. Smarter people than I are chiming in on options - I just wouldn’t recommended running to the PP until you’ve put your finger on the root cause.

Does that sound weird?

Good luck!!

[AirMiles]

Originally Posted by majorairhead

Airmiles, have you made any suspension changes to your truck? Lifted? Leveled?

Plus, over on the ford forums there is discussion about causes of 'death wobble'.

There's talk about bad steering stablizers, worn axle side track bar joints, loose track bars, etc. You might not have a hitch or trailer issue, maybe a truck issue.

My truck has a 1.5" leveling block in the front, but the towing issues were there before the block was added. The block levels the truck when attached to the Airstream. I also added the Ford OEM rear stabilizer bar. We also have a second 2019 F250 bone stock and it has the same looseness and push/pull. My son-in-law and I always have the same trucks so I can figure out the issues, then fix his. We both tow extensively. I've been modding my truck trying to fix this and his is our base case. Both trucks have less than 3000 miles on them, so its not worn parts. Both trucks sway the same with me push/pulling on the hitch or front tow hooks and while on the Interstate towing. Next week we are planning on pulling his trailer with my truck to see if he wants to add the rear stabilizer bar.

I also believe a Propride may not fix the issue because our towing issues only started when we purchased the F250s. Before that, both our trailers towed flawlessly. I'm not sure a Propride can fix the truck's stability issues.

Early in this thread, AndrewT chimed in saying that one of his customers was disappointed with his new F250: http://www.airforums.com/forums/f463...ml#post1973132

One of our customers gets a new 250 every year and he noticed a substantial reduction in stability with the 2017.

The truck is 3" taller than the 16 which was already very tall so the center of gravity is higher but I think the biggest difference is that they have softened the upper level of the rear suspension.

If you reduce pressure on the torsion bars it helps the rear suspension but then the steering is light. It seems the best solution is about 800 pounds of cargo in the box and then set you torsion bars from there.

Your extended drop is likely putting you ball a long way behind the bumper which does not help.

Andrew T

Best solution 800# in box. I have a lot of gear in the box (picture of loaded box, weight tickets, truck and trailer stance . . . ): http://www.airforums.com/forums/f42/...ml#post2205359

[Baby Zeppelin]

Hate to read about people's problems. Can't say we've got any.
Have a 2017 F250 CCSB 6.2 liter gas powered truck pulling a 28 ft. Airstream with a Blue Ox Sway Pro hitch. I forgot what bars I have, but I think it's 1000 lb (they have three dots on them). We've had the trailer a bit over a year and have spent 50 nights in it. Haven't added up the miles towing, but it's a fair bit.

Never experienced the least bit of side to side sway from the trailer or any feeling of lightness or sloppiness in the truck. We hate the up and down oscillations on concrete interstates in the middle of the country, but blame the roads for that. We did lower the rear of our truck an inch and a half, but doubt it's a factor in anything but appearance.

[AirMiles]

Originally Posted by Baby Zeppelin

Hate to read about people's problems. Can't say we've got any.
Have a 2017 F250 CCSB 6.2 liter gas powered truck pulling a 28 ft. Airstream with a Blue Ox Sway Pro hitch. I forgot what bars I have, but I think it's 1000 lb (they have three dots on them). We've had the trailer a bit over a year and have spent 50 nights in it. Haven't added up the miles towing, but it's a fair bit.

Never experienced the least bit of side to side sway from the trailer or any feeling of lightness or sloppiness in the truck. We hate the up and down oscillations on concrete interstates in the middle of the country, but blame the roads for that. We did lower the rear of our truck an inch and a half, but doubt it's a factor in anything but appearance.

I asked my dealer to lower the rear with a 2016 Ford F250 OEM block, they said they only raise the front. The front block did not change any handling characteristic of the truck, I had the same issues before as after and are having the same stability issues with my Son-in-laws unmodified 2019 F250 Lariat and his 24' box trailer. I went with my dealer's recommendation to raise the front for warranty purposes. I wanted them to do the leveling.

[majorairhead]

I've been doing some reading over at the Ford site, some guys say the Ford computer sway control may be an issue, others talk about the hitch setup.

My opinion, and not trying to be a knucklehead here, but just cuz a truck is new doesn't mean it couldn't have a defective part of some kind.

I've towed 650 miles in a day, a good bit of that Interstate 95 from PA to South Carolina, doing 65 to 72 mph. and, knock on wood, never had an issue.

Anyway, check this out...

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...-2011-a-2.html

[AirMiles]

I've been doing some reading over at the Ford site, some guys say the Ford computer sway control may be an issue, others talk about the hitch setup.

I always turn off the Trailer Sway Control, my Son-in-law does not. Son-in-law said the TSC has never activated with his truck/trailer.

Hitch setup: I've exhausted all the hitch setup combinations of my Blue Ox Swaypro. The hitch angle is factory set, I tightened the slop in the receiver, I tried 1000# bars and 1500# bars, more tension, less tension, higher/lower/level ball heights and all different tire pressures on truck and Airstream. I'm out of ideas of what else we can adjust. But again, our trailers were on rails with our current hitches before we changed trucks.

Thanks for the link, I'll check it out! Checked it out . . . sounds like the same concern as mine.

[Snerf]

Originally Posted by Wolfwhistle

The sway issue I had after trying almost everything was corrected by a Hensley hitch.WW

I spent a lot of time reading and listening to what Andy Thompson at Can Am has to say about towing; both in general and specific to AS. After I finally understood the point(s) he was attempting to make (yes I'm a bit slow ), it dawned on me why the guy is considered a genius among some in the RV community.

However, I also get that he leverages the attention he derives as an advocate of the 'small TV' to drive a fairly inexpensive marketing campaign that enjoys broad market awareness. So, score two on the genius front - engineering and advertising.

What's interesting is that while so many in the 'big TV' space seem to get outraged by his claims, the reality is that melding the two schools of thought can actually deliver the best solution. Passengers don't necessarily have be exposed to non-reinforced, non-redundant monocoque chassis with insufficient braking power. Applying anti-sway, well balance/distributed weight, low(er) profile techniques to big iron can approximate similar small TV tow characteristics.

Sure, it's always going to be a bit of a kludge, since US big iron is by its very nature solid live rear axles, with high COG, but the anti-sway and load balancing are still available. Trust me, I know all about live axles and high COG. I've got a JL Wrangler, with not one, but two, and I've got a 1 ton Chevy dually sitting under our class C that I've spent a lot of time improving both ride and control.

I guess this is a very long way of saying that one might as well factor in the $2-3k cost of a PP or HA hitch on top of all the other base line costs. Spending the time @ the CAT scales, balancing the vehicles, and dialing in the WD/anti-sway hitch are all keys to success.

As for myself, I think we're going to move forward on the F250. The next thing I'm going to do is order a refurbished HA (under a new warranty). And then I'm going to take that sucker down to a local U-Haul, rent some generic trailer, and head over the the port of Long Beach where not one, not two, but three CAT scales are located in the general vicinity. I'm going to go off hours, and I'm going to figure out how to do the 3 pass weigh-in until I've got it mastered.

Then, when I feel comfortable that I've got the balance and anti-sway set, I'm going to get out on the LA highways to test it under real live conditions. I figure a few weekends of that, and I'll be ready to move up to The Show - ya know, the big leagues.

I'll keep you posted.

[Fair_Enough]

Originally Posted by Snerf

I guess this is a very long way of saying that one might as well factor in the $2-3k cost of a PP or HA hitch on top of all the other base line costs. Spending the time @ the CAT scales, balancing the vehicles, and dialing in the WD/anti-sway hitch are all keys to success.

As for myself, I think we're going to move forward on the F250. The next thing I'm going to do is order a refurbished HA (under a new warranty). And then I'm going to take that sucker down to a local U-Haul, rent some generic trailer, and head over the the port of Long Beach where not one, not two, but three CAT scales are located in the general vicinity. I'm going to go off hours, and I'm going to figure out how to do the 3 pass weigh-in until I've got it mastered.

Then, when I feel comfortable that I've got the balance and anti-sway set, I'm going to get out on the LA highways to test it under real live conditions. I figure a few weekends of that, and I'll be ready to move up to The Show - ya know, the big leagues.

S, I am a bit surprised that your F250 sounds like it is doing what my F150 did. Considering my '17 F250 FX4 CCSB gasser, with the same Airstream towed great. The 250 E-rated tires were considerably stiffer than the Michelins I have now. Frustrating.

There are 3 brands of hitches where WDH is independent of sway control methodology. They are Andersen, Hensley and ProPride. Andersen is really a better designed friction method (IMO), where the later two are much more sophisticated.

They both project the trailer-to-TV pivot point far forward; probably in front of the rear axle a bit. Essentially turning a towable into a 5th wheel-like experience. Where all others lessen sway and won't let it get out of hand, HA and P3 totally eliminate it.

If you experience a strong side wind, with a HA / P3, the force acts on the truck and the trailer alike. Unlike a conventional hitch where the trailer is like a huge lever and the ball the fulcrum to have its way with the truck.

WDH for these is used for leveling and to produce a smooth ride and to stop porpoising. No need to crank the bars way up any more than you need to and with the F250 probably not much.

I would be curious if the hitch anti-sloop clamps would help. I should have tried that before spending $1925 (bought the Hitch Helper too), but here it is and it works perfectly.

What is described as a side to side wiggle with undetectable trailer sway sounds like a function of rubber tire, sure it could be exacerbated by hitch sloop. A $15 / $30 experiment. I bet if you were to do the wiggle test every vehicle out there would do the same. My F150 has a lot of it and so does the wife's Ridgeline for what its worth.

I went to the Hensley (only needed the Cub) rather than trying any more experimenting. I felt tires would make a difference, but the Michelins work so well on the normally not towing F150. If that didn't work, what was I going to do... sell the Airstream. I thought about it. So, for me $1925 total including the Hitch Helper was money well spent. Now I'm happy and ready to hit the road with at least one less thing to complain about.

Clint

[AirMiles]

Clint, your experience with the Hensley makes me think a projection hitch may cure my problems. I want to buy a used Propride so I could resell it if I decide to go back to my old hitch. Thank you for sharing your experience in fixing this issue.

[Moflash]

I use a Airsafe Hitch coupled to a Equilizer 4 point WD.After 65k-70,000 miles of towing our 28ft International hooked to four different tow vehicles, can say for sure that I would not change a thing.Initially I looked at the Hensley and ProPride but neither absorb the shock that a truck (including a 1/2 ton with a WD) transfers to the Airstream trailer.The Airsafe allows the trailer to float on its own this saves on wear and tear on the trailer.Another benefit is there no jerk back.Never any sway, even been in 75 mph winds next to the North rim of the Grand Canyon a couple of years ago.

[pteck]

It's a sad day when an F250 needs a PPP style hitch to be stable. That can't possibly be it.

[crispyboy]

I am not familiar with the Ford front suspension but I assume it is still a solid axle and uses a track bar. I have replaced the track bar on my Dodge and it really helped the truck to steer straight down the road.
I understand your truck is very new but it could be possible that the existing track bar is not torqued down properly. Any play in the bushings is bad. The bushings on my trucks track bar takes about 200 ft lbs of torque if I recall.
Could it be that the steering box could be defective? It may not have been assembled properly.
While the Propride or Hensley are awesome hitches it shouldn't take one to make your truck steer straight, your truck was designed and built to be a great tow vehicle.

[AirMiles]

Originally Posted by pteck

It's a sad day when an F250 needs a PPP style hitch to be stable. That can't possibly be it.

I'm starting to think Ford has an issue with their computer algorithms for stability control on all of their new trucks. Here is an article describing their towing algorithms: https://www.freewayfordtrucks.com/bl...ay-control.htm
My truck also has Adaptive Steering: https://www.fordrepairspecialist.com...steering-2017/

I've been researching Ford stability issues and its a common problem for both the F150s and F250s. Here is an example of an F150 thread with many owners complaining about the same towing issues as I am experiencing with my two different 2019 F250s pulling two different trailers (trailers that towed perfectly with our old trucks): https://www.fordf150.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=123331

This common theme is very disappointing. I'm also seeing there are a lot of Blue Ox Swaypro owners complaining about this issue. Is it the combination of the Blue Ox Swaypro and the Ford algorithms? Note that Blue Ox says to turn off the Ford Trailer Sway Control. Hmmm????

[Snerf]

Originally Posted by AirMiles

I've been researching Ford stability issues and its a common problem for both the F150s and F250s.

I wonder if some of the stability issues have to due with reduced payload capacities? If more features and accessories are being added to traditional chassis, is it fair to compare modern trucks to older models?

For example, here are the stickers for a F150 4x2 3.5 vs one with a 4x4 HDPP. (A non HDPP 4x4 F150 would be 150+ lbs heavier ie payload would be under 1,700 lbs). The second example shows two F250 stickers. The first one is similar to your F250 4x4 6.7, whereas the second is a 4x2 6.2 gasser.

Secondly, I really have to wonder about the inherent stability of 4x4. I have the new Wrangler JLU Rubicon, and while it's an improvement over prior gen Jeeps, it's not really noted for handling. 4x4 have a couple of issues, including solid live front axle, heavier with high COG, and many times hybrid street/offroad tires.

Part of the reason I'm seriously considering the 250 long bed gasser is to get the TV lighter and lower (relative) to the ground.