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Old 02-24-2019, 06:31 PM   #121
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It appears those of you that are thinking the height of the truck could be part of the issue may be on to something. Ford has lowered the 3/4 ton by about an inch and half for the next refresh that comes out.
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Old 02-24-2019, 09:07 PM   #122
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First thing that I did on my 2017 F250 was to lower the rear, changed out the spring block to the 2016 model. This dropped the truck 1-1/2” made a difference and truck sits level.

This truck sits about 3 inches taller then my 2003, my only complaint, we are not getting taller. You have to climb into this truck.
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Old 02-25-2019, 04:57 AM   #123
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I'm in a '17 F250 CCSB 4x4 with camper package 6.2 gasser towing a 30 ft. International with equalizer hitch. No problems with sway.
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Old 02-25-2019, 06:24 AM   #124
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Hi

The breakpoint on a 4x4 gas F-250 and F-350 is roughly 3,000 pounds (door sticker number). Switch to diesel and that drops to about 2,400 pounds. On both numbers the assumption is "with typical options". Changing that can move either number a couple hundred pounds.

You *do* need to check and see what they include in the door sticker. Does it have a full tank of fuel? How about a full load of passengers? If so, how many is that and how much should they weigh? Different manufacturers have some *very* different ideas along those lines ....

Bob
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Old 02-25-2019, 07:29 AM   #125
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Picture of payload sticker on 2019 F250 Platinum 4x4 Diesel with dual sunroof power running boards . . . And link to three-pass CAT scale results pulling a FC25FB with pictures of truck and truckbed http://www.airforums.com/forums/f42/...ml#post2205359
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Old 02-25-2019, 08:26 AM   #126
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I've noticed most folks comment about weights/ towing / hauling without hard facts. They go into "what I have" ignoring the post. I suppose that is the nature of forums. Opinions. Of course, some have facts and some actually have experience. Sometimes it hard to flush out good advice. I am not any better many times, but try to be.

The funny thing is Ford has guides available and its easy to read the door sticker. You will need actual weights and will need to know how to do some basic math.

Ford door sticker cargo capacity, in recent years (don't know about the older ones), reflects all options and includes a full tank of fuel, and a 150# driver allowance. If you have a Camper optioned trailer (opt code 471 - 250/350) the guide includes a 150# passenger in every position.

Did you know you cannot max out the front and rear axles without exceeding GVWR? Did you know that you can not max out truck GVWR and pull the maximum weight trailer allowed without going over GCWR? And, did you know that tongue weight is measured with WDH disconnected and is essentially payload, not to be considered tongue weight? At least 100 pounds of it.

https://www.ford.com/cmslibs/content...tyPU_Oct25.pdf

Here's a link to one of the best weight / towing articles I have ever seen. It might not fit exactly your situation, but is excellent info.

http://popupbackpacker.com/does-a-we...tongue-weight/

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Old 02-25-2019, 09:37 AM   #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AirMiles View Post
Picture of payload sticker on 2019 F250 Platinum 4x4 Diesel with dual sunroof power running boards . . . And link to three-pass CAT scale results pulling a FC25FB with pictures of truck and truckbed http://www.airforums.com/forums/f42/...ml#post2205359
That is excellent information and really shows the process of dialing in a rig with actual CAT readings. Wolfwhistle had a very good post as well discussing exactly the physics at play.

The quick & dirty back-of-the-envelope way to pencil out the same general information is to start with your payload rating from the door jamb sticker.

Payload capacity 2,043 lbs
People, hitch, gear, etc 1,043 lbs (guess?)

= Capacity for tongue weight 1,000 lbs
divide by .125 (assuming balanced)
= Maximum gross trailer weight = 8,000

25' FC GVWR 7,300 lbs
+-91% or almost 10% margin

---

These quick calcs plus your actual scale readings tells you numerically what your mind/body is actually experiencing. That is, calm steady no-stress towing.

Alternatively, let's say your TT wasn't balanced, and you actually had around 15% on the tongue. Now the gross trailer weight capacity would drop to 6,700 lbs and you'd begin to experience problems.

Or, you had 1,150 lbs in the F250, bringing the net to 900 lbs. Divide by .125, and you're right at the '25 Flying cloud gvwr of 7,300 lbs.

---

If nothing else, these sketches show the importance of TV base capacity, how much it gets loaded, how much the TT gets loaded, and how well the TT is balanced.

It also shows why a standard F150 plays on the margins for the 25'. You really have to dial in the truck, the TT and the balance. It ends up being a huge chore with all the compromises of what you can and can't take, which either causes people to get a bigger TV or get a smaller TT.
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Old 02-25-2019, 09:50 AM   #128
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Wolf, I posted a photo of some notes I took for the F series payload ratings on this thread:

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f463...ml#post2213580
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Old 02-26-2019, 08:08 AM   #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snerf View Post
Wolf, I posted a photo of some notes I took for the F series payload ratings on this thread:

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f463...ml#post2213580
Snerf,

It looks like you ended up narrowing the choices between a HDPP XLT F150 Super Crew and a F250 XL Super Cab... both 4x2. Which widened the payload gap a bit between choices several hundred pounds. Of course, payload with the F250 gasser isn't an issue with any Airstream I can think of... and the mere weight of the 250 will lessen the effect of a poorly setup trailer sway system (masking it really), but sway it will... and if far enough off it could be dangerous.

In other words, in my opinion (someone still learning), the trailer can't be allowed to sway... and pushing the limits of an F150 for part-time towing, makes sense if you want a easier to enter vehicle that's quicker and easier to park and gets far better fuel economy for everyday driving. Going from the too tall F250 4x4 to this F150 lets me park in the garage again. That's big deal to me.

The sway issue I had after trying almost everything, was corrected by a Hensley hitch. There are PROs and CONs with everything, but I was close to selling it before getting the hitch. First test drive and readjusting was yesterday. For years I have heard Pro Pride and Hensley owners boast about the hitch and I was skeptical, but no more. Buying one on sale was icing on the cake for me.

WW
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Old 02-27-2019, 06:03 PM   #130
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I just got my 2017 f-250 back from ford. I added the ford sway bar and Bilstein shocks front and back. I can report the rear end stays nice and flat and feel like it's on rails. I do notice the front moving back and forth, but with all the weight of a diesel I would guess this is common. The Bilstein shocks are a winner. Nice and smooth ride and no feeling in the steering wheel when I hit a bump. That is perfect!

I can't test this on the trailer as it is parked 2300 miles away but come April, I'll give you a report.
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Old 02-27-2019, 06:22 PM   #131
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Turk, did you have the shocks installed at a Ford dealer?
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Old 02-27-2019, 11:34 PM   #132
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I read with interest here; my F250 6.7L 4x4 King Ranch works fine without any modifications... I am not concerned about any "rake" issues, and the shocks and sway bar work fine...not sure the concern/modification on this thread which shows no real difference except to spend more money for some reason...just saying...The stock F250 with proper WDH works fine IMHO.. No disrespect intended..but making an issue out of a non issue, does not help newbes… Many of us here with F250's/350's are happy pulling our larger AS's...just saying...
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Old 02-28-2019, 05:15 AM   #133
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I read with interest here; my F250 6.7L 4x4 King Ranch works fine without any modifications... I am not concerned about any "rake" issues, and the shocks and sway bar work fine...not sure the concern/modification on this thread which shows no real difference except to spend more money for some reason...just saying...The stock F250 with proper WDH works fine IMHO.. No disrespect intended..but making an issue out of a non issue, does not help newbes… Many of us here with F250's/350's are happy pulling our larger AS's...just saying...
GypsyDad, I have to disagree with your comment. My 2019 F250 Diesel is not as good of towing platform as my 2017 Titan XD Diesel, 2016 Titan Diesel, 2011 F250 Diesel, or my 2012 F150 Eco-boost . . . I really can't believe this is possible. But if I could have test towed my FC25FB with my F250 before I bought it, I would not have bought it.

Now I have a $70,000 truck that I need to modify to improve its towing stability. I believe the F250 needs the rear stabilizer bar. I was not impressed with the stock shocks and the bump steer I had, but the rear stabilizer bar improved this. The truck wandered on the highway even without the Airstream and gets significantly worse with it. If several hundred dollars of add-ons will improve stability, I won't hesitate to install them.

Go do this test on an F250. Grab the hitch, without the Airstream attached, and push/pull sideways. The F250 will start swaying. Stop the push/pull action and watch the truck continue swaying for about three more revolutions! That is what is happening when you drive down the highway with this platform. Try the same maneuver on the front by grabbing the tow hooks . . . its even looser.

Others can disagree . . . but go try the push/pull test on an F250 and you will see what I am feeling while towing my Airstream with my F250.
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Old 02-28-2019, 11:14 AM   #134
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Originally Posted by AirMiles View Post
GypsyDad, I have to disagree with your comment. My 2019 F250 Diesel is not as good of towing platform as my 2017 Titan XD Diesel, 2016 Titan Diesel, 2011 F250 Diesel, or my 2012 F150 Eco-boost . . . I really can't believe this is possible. But if I could have test towed my FC25FB with my F250 before I bought it, I would not have bought it.

Now I have a $70,000 truck that I need to modify to improve its towing stability. I believe the F250 needs the rear stabilizer bar. I was not impressed with the stock shocks and the bump steer I had, but the rear stabilizer bar improved this. The truck wandered on the highway even without the Airstream and gets significantly worse with it. If several hundred dollars of add-ons will improve stability, I won't hesitate to install them.

Go do this test on an F250. Grab the hitch, without the Airstream attached, and push/pull sideways. The F250 will start swaying. Stop the push/pull action and watch the truck continue swaying for about three more revolutions! That is what is happening when you drive down the highway with this platform. Try the same maneuver on the front by grabbing the tow hooks . . . its even looser.

Others can disagree . . . but go try the push/pull test on an F250 and you will see what I am feeling while towing my Airstream with my F250.
I have yet to see a F250 or F350 that you can grab and shake like you describe,not inferring that you don't have a problem with your truck.

What you are describing sounds like tire sidewall flex.Do you have 18' or 20' wheels? What air pressure are you running? Curious
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Old 02-28-2019, 12:27 PM   #135
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I have yet to see a F250 or F350 that you can grab and shake like you describe,not inferring that you don't have a problem with your truck.

What you are describing sounds like tire sidewall flex. Do you have 18' or 20' wheels? What air pressure are you running? Curious


We have two 2019 F250s. One had 75 PSI all the way around (set for towing) the other had 55 PSI all the way around (set for daily driving). Both exhibited the same motion. I agree it probably is sidewall flex. Both trucks have 20" rims and Michelin AT2 tires. I've been trying all sorts of different air pressures from 80 PSI cold to door jam 60/65 PSI for towing. It is better at 80 PSI, but still not what I would have expected from an F250. I only have 1000 miles of towing on each truck at this point. One truck is "leveled" with a 1-1/2" block in the front and the Ford OEM rear stabilizer bar was added. The other truck is bone stock.

Maybe it is the Michelin's? We had Michelin MS2 tires on two of the three previous Titan XDs we've owned. We ran those Michelins at 80 PSI while towing and both the Airstream FC25FB and the 24' Utility Box trailers we tow were like on rails with our Blue Ox Swaypro hitches (one 1500# one 1000#). Both Titan XDs towed without the WDH as well as the F250 does with the WDH.

Hopefully we will find a combination that we will like as we get more familiar with these trucks. But our initial impressions are disappointing. So far I added 1500# bars, a rear stabilizer bar and 80 PSI. Each addition was an improvement, but we are still not completely happy with the towing stability of either F250.

I know I sound like a Titan XD troll. That is not my intent. I did not like the dealer (un)support of that truck, it was payload challenged, and we had breakdowns on two of the Titan XDs. Between the three Titan XDs we owned, we towed for over 100,000 miles. We tow ALOT. We switched to Ford F250 for dealer support as we travel back and forth across the country. I've towed large boats and heavy equipment trailers all my life. I've never had a towing issue on any other truck (mostly Fords). I'm not a serial modder. I've owned 38 vehicles in my life (plus another 40 or so Ford trucks in my plumbing business) and only modded two (Leveled the F250, lowered a Miata sports car). I prefer bone stock vehicles.
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Old 02-28-2019, 07:44 PM   #136
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2017 Ford F250 and trailer sway ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by AirMiles View Post
I have yet to see a F250 or F350 that you can grab and shake like you describe,not inferring that you don't have a problem with your truck.

What you are describing sounds like tire sidewall flex. Do you have 18' or 20' wheels? What air pressure are you running? Curious


We have two 2019 F250s. One had 75 PSI all the way around (set for towing) the other had 55 PSI all the way around (set for daily driving). Both exhibited the same motion. I agree it probably is sidewall flex. Both trucks have 20" rims and Michelin AT2 tires. I've been trying all sorts of different air pressures from 80 PSI cold to door jam 60/65 PSI for towing. It is better at 80 PSI, but still not what I would have expected from an F250. I only have 1000 miles of towing on each truck at this point. One truck is "leveled" with a 1-1/2" block in the front and the Ford OEM rear stabilizer bar was added. The other truck is bone stock.

Maybe it is the Michelin's? We had Michelin MS2 tires on two of the three previous Titan XDs we've owned. We ran those Michelins at 80 PSI while towing and both the Airstream FC25FB and the 24' Utility Box trailers we tow were like on rails with our Blue Ox Swaypro hitches (one 1500# one 1000#). Both Titan XDs towed without the WDH as well as the F250 does with the WDH.

Hopefully we will find a combination that we will like as we get more familiar with these trucks. But our initial impressions are disappointing. So far I added 1500# bars, a rear stabilizer bar and 80 PSI. Each addition was an improvement, but we are still not completely happy with the towing stability of either F250.

I know I sound like a Titan XD troll. That is not my intent. I did not like the dealer (un)support of that truck, it was payload challenged, and we had breakdowns on two of the Titan XDs. Between the three Titan XDs we owned, we towed for over 100,000 miles. We tow ALOT. We switched to Ford F250 for dealer support as we travel back and forth across the country. I've towed large boats and heavy equipment trailers all my life. I've never had a towing issue on any other truck (mostly Fords). I'm not a serial modder. I've owned 38 vehicles in my life (plus another 40 or so Ford trucks in my plumbing business) and only modded two (Leveled the F250, lowered a Miata sports car). I prefer bone stock vehicles.


That is strange.I tow with a 2017 F350 6.7 Td 4x4 SuperCrew Platinum with 8 ft box and 20’ Michelin’s.Our Airstream is a 28 ft International.I have towed with a WD and without in all terrains and weather conditions.Never any sway,none. As I have mentioned previously I carry at times a 2 up Can Am Outlander ATV in the bed and two Hobie Kayaks.I run 65lbs front and 78 rear for all driving conditions.
Could it be the weight distribution in your trailer? Trailer wheel alignment?
This has me perplexed.I also tow a lot and trade trucks every 3 years and the last 3 have been new F350’s.
I have been automobile business for 41 years and have driven virtually everything built including the Titan XD.i have been a consultant for GM,Mercedes-Benz,Ferrari,Lamborghini and Porsche I am not brand loyal but have not found anything that tows better than a Superduty so I find this odd.to say the least.
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Old 02-28-2019, 08:40 PM   #137
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I towed this 23FB with a 2017 F250 6.2L 4x4 (with GY Duratrac 18") no sway or wiggle or side to side what so ever. I didn't like the challenges it represented being so tall. I traded for a F150 4x2 3.5 TT, Crew cab, 6.6' bed. First tow it felt like the trailer was left and right trying to fight its way out of ruts, or something. I tried this and that reluctant to spend on money tires. Rather, I bought a Hensley hitch. Problem solved. I obviously don't know if stiffer E rated tires would have corrected it. I did, suspect that the Michelin 20" (which do daily driving fabulously) was the culprit. I could have driven it this way, but it didn't feel safe to me. BTW, this was with Blue Ox Sway Pro with 1000# bars at first then 750#... I tried everything and anything that was adjustable and I could not get it to go away. I searched the forums and the web and found several 23FB owners that had what sounded like the same trouble, but could never find out what they did, or if they did fix it. I even read about some, having sway induced wrecks.
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Old 03-01-2019, 05:20 AM   #138
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F250

OP. Something is going on with your particular vehicle or setup.

I am running an F250 KR diesel FX4 with my FC25FB using an Equalizer WDH with 1000# bars and in no possible scenario could I ever push that thing from side to side either hooked up or standing by itself. If anything it is overkill for the use and while I’d never get rid of it due to engine braking ability over the Rockies, I’ve become a recent fan of the Ecoboost. That truck wouldn’t move either. I’m 6’1 and 220# so initial mass to make it rock isn’t the problem.

Try a different shop for an inspection and explain your hitch rocking complaint. See what they say.
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Old 03-01-2019, 08:08 AM   #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AirMiles View Post
[...]
Now I have a $70,000 truck that I need to modify to improve its towing stability. I believe the F250 needs the rear stabilizer bar. I was not impressed with the stock shocks and the bump steer I had, but the rear stabilizer bar improved this. The truck wandered on the highway even without the Airstream and gets significantly worse with it. If several hundred dollars of add-ons will improve stability, I won't hesitate to install them.

Go do this test on an F250. Grab the hitch, without the Airstream attached, and push/pull sideways. The F250 will start swaying. Stop the push/pull action and watch the truck continue swaying for about three more revolutions! That is what is happening when you drive down the highway with this platform. Try the same maneuver on the front by grabbing the tow hooks . . . its even looser.
[...]
Have you considered using a panhard bar? A panhard bar limits lateral movement of the body with respect to the rear axle, which may be a more direct solution to your problem than a stabilizer bar, which restricts roll of the body. I think slowmover has suggested using a pandard bar for a pickup truck used as a tow vehicle.
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Old 03-01-2019, 10:53 AM   #140
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Originally Posted by AirMiles View Post
GypsyDad, I have to disagree with your comment. My 2019 F250 Diesel is not as good of towing platform as my 2017 Titan XD Diesel, 2016 Titan Diesel, 2011 F250 Diesel, or my 2012 F150 Eco-boost . . . I really can't believe this is possible. But if I could have test towed my FC25FB with my F250 before I bought it, I would not have bought it.

Now I have a $70,000 truck that I need to modify to improve its towing stability. I believe the F250 needs the rear stabilizer bar. I was not impressed with the stock shocks and the bump steer I had, but the rear stabilizer bar improved this. The truck wandered on the highway even without the Airstream and gets significantly worse with it. If several hundred dollars of add-ons will improve stability, I won't hesitate to install them.

Go do this test on an F250. Grab the hitch, without the Airstream attached, and push/pull sideways. The F250 will start swaying. Stop the push/pull action and watch the truck continue swaying for about three more revolutions! That is what is happening when you drive down the highway with this platform. Try the same maneuver on the front by grabbing the tow hooks . . . its even looser.

Others can disagree . . . but go try the push/pull test on an F250 and you will see what I am feeling while towing my Airstream with my F250.
Wow; still wondering what is going on with your set up? I have not had any issues with mine; I do have the swaybars as part of the option package, but still, what you describe is very weird. If not the tires, something else going on...lugs tight? WDH bars too light? Just doesn't make sense...the 2019 is not different in suspension then my 2017, so not sure what is going on with your unit. As other F250 owners are reporting, this combo with the larger AS's works very, very well...
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